chip light
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Over here
Shawn, there must be a lot of staples floating around the Bell factory. I pulled a transmission chip plug after a series of lights with nothing being found, and the oil didn't stop pouring out of the housing. I put the plug back in and called maintenance, who pulled the chip detector housing and found a staple inside it. The staple had finally pushed out enough to prevent the seal from closing when the plug was removed.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2010
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From: Amazon Jungle
Well, if you had a real emergency after neglecting an engine chip, it would not matter if you had your boss with you or not. And SAR would be called out in any case to pull you potentially dead out of a river.
Now, DID you still had a light on when you took off? If that is the case you don't know enough about your helicopter and should read yourself up before bad luck catches up with you.
When that is said, pending on your helicopter type and it's manuals, it may allow you to do certain checks yourself, in order to get you back to base. Some helicopters have as mentioned above, mag-plugs that can easily determine if something seriously is happening or not to your engine.
Now, DID you still had a light on when you took off? If that is the case you don't know enough about your helicopter and should read yourself up before bad luck catches up with you.
When that is said, pending on your helicopter type and it's manuals, it may allow you to do certain checks yourself, in order to get you back to base. Some helicopters have as mentioned above, mag-plugs that can easily determine if something seriously is happening or not to your engine.
And I now very much about the helicopter I fly as I learned on ground school and factory training and acted accordingly during the warning light, the chip light was never neglected by me as you suggested. "land as soon as possible" and "land immediately" are two VERY different ways of acting.
Last edited by Soave_Pilot; 27th December 2013 at 20:53.
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: USA ex-pat
Soave:
There is a reason some of the people in this thread are sitting in comfy chairs at home. It strikes me that you would do well to re-read the commentary and advice given.
Your original post was a question to the community. Whilst there are some differing views, there are some very experienced pilots who have given valuable information and shared their personal experiences for your benefit. Every day is a new day to learn.
From your last post I offer the following comments - there are lots of capable, confident pilots. The only problem is that some of them are now unfortunately RIP. Aviation can be very cruel for the complacent and/or over confident. Sometimes fate just deals a bad hand. We should always be reminded that bad things can happen to anyone of us on any given day. Just give yourself the best possible opportunity for the best possible outcome.
There is a reason some of the people in this thread are sitting in comfy chairs at home. It strikes me that you would do well to re-read the commentary and advice given.
Your original post was a question to the community. Whilst there are some differing views, there are some very experienced pilots who have given valuable information and shared their personal experiences for your benefit. Every day is a new day to learn.
From your last post I offer the following comments - there are lots of capable, confident pilots. The only problem is that some of them are now unfortunately RIP. Aviation can be very cruel for the complacent and/or over confident. Sometimes fate just deals a bad hand. We should always be reminded that bad things can happen to anyone of us on any given day. Just give yourself the best possible opportunity for the best possible outcome.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
There is a reason some of the people in this thread are sitting in comfy chairs at home.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Inside the Industry
SASless
I did not suggest that you should have ditched. If it was a 3 hour flight back to land / base then it was windy. If you had just established in the cruise, you were not far from your take off point. Why not just return to the rig?
To just crack the light and ignore the condition without looking at going back to the or a rig, informing Bristow Dyce / Sumburgh or ATC ( probably not open?) so that they could have at least started SAR prep was cavalier in my opinion.
What was the type?
I know about Uvic Jackets, Decca, no SAR etc, I flew there too.
FSX
You must be SAS under another identity. You haven't contributed to the substance of the discussion just told us SAS's age and experience, which we already knew. But thanks anyway.
I did not suggest that you should have ditched. If it was a 3 hour flight back to land / base then it was windy. If you had just established in the cruise, you were not far from your take off point. Why not just return to the rig?
To just crack the light and ignore the condition without looking at going back to the or a rig, informing Bristow Dyce / Sumburgh or ATC ( probably not open?) so that they could have at least started SAR prep was cavalier in my opinion.
What was the type?
I know about Uvic Jackets, Decca, no SAR etc, I flew there too.
FSX
You must be SAS under another identity. You haven't contributed to the substance of the discussion just told us SAS's age and experience, which we already knew. But thanks anyway.
Last edited by industry insider; 28th December 2013 at 01:25.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Downeast
You must be SAS under another identity. You haven't contributed to the substance of the discussion just told us SAS's age and experience, which we already knew. But thanks anyway.
Sorryo......he speaks for himself....and is in no way the one and only Sasless.
I have no need to post except in my own stead.
I appreciate the vote of confidence but as I do not wish to impugn Industry Insider's reputation in any way....I will make no comment regarding his youth and lack of experience.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 803
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From: Pensacola, Florida
I'm with Industry Insider on this. Three-hour flight to the beach? With a combining gearbox chip? Sooooo, why *not* turn around and land back? I'm sure SASless is a lot older and more experienced than all the rest of us mere humans, but turning around would certainly have been the less-cavalier thing to do, no?
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
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From: Aberdeen
Yes fair point and the same over here, but the OP implied he had not looked at the detector. Of course if significant metal is found, engineering input is then required prior to further flight.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
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From: Aberdeen
Nasty night over very cold saltwater with huge waves....rain...sleet...Combining Gearbox Chip Light illuminated just as we entered the cruise. I reached out and rotated the segment caution light so it went out.
Coey asked what good that would do.....to be told I had no intention of looking at the thing for almost three hours all the way back to the Beach.
Sometimes.....you rolls the Dice and Takes your chances.
It was fuzz and not a problem.
Coey asked what good that would do.....to be told I had no intention of looking at the thing for almost three hours all the way back to the Beach.
Sometimes.....you rolls the Dice and Takes your chances.
It was fuzz and not a problem.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 557
Likes: 27
From: At home
Soave,
Yes, my chair is very comfy and enjoy it as much as I can every time I come off tour.
From your original post, I got the feeling that you were fishing for support of your decision instead of an honest question.
Now, the difference between Land ASAP, and Land Immediately does not matter in this case, as you had landed, effectively Grounding yourself and therefore you need to know what that implies.
From your OP,
So, from your OP, it seems as you did not pull the plugs and it was only done after reaching home base the techs pulled them. Therefore, I am asking if you took off again with the light ON after your ''visual inspection'' and 10 min hover?
Yes, my chair is very comfy and enjoy it as much as I can every time I come off tour.
From your original post, I got the feeling that you were fishing for support of your decision instead of an honest question.
Now, the difference between Land ASAP, and Land Immediately does not matter in this case, as you had landed, effectively Grounding yourself and therefore you need to know what that implies.
From your OP,
so I landed the helicopter did a visual inspection and since everything looked normal from the outside (oil level, oil leak etc. etc) pick up hovered for about 10 min.. all gages green, Took off and headed back to base.
Maintenance personel took the sensor off and turns out it did have some metallic dust in the sensor.
Maintenance personel took the sensor off and turns out it did have some metallic dust in the sensor.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 105
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From: Kent
Unless you are in a hostile environment, if the chip light comes on you must land as soon as practice and unless you are cleared by engineering and have the tools, locking wire etc you are grounded until they take a look for you. The engine and gauges will give you no clue whilst performing a visual, if you had a large break up going on and the engine failed you would not be insured if the worst happened. Remember a helicopter will talk to you before if dies a nasty...usually a chip light is one of those signs
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,081
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From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
longbox:
We have already been there: see here
and unless you are cleared by engineering and have the tools, locking wire etc you are grounded until they take a look for you.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 304
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From: Amazon Jungle
Therefore, I am asking if you took off again with the light ON after your ''visual inspection'' and 10 min hover?
Nubian:
So you think it was safer for me to just turn back and land at the base as the RFM states, than doing a precautionary check on ground before proceeding to base??
From your original post, I got the feeling that you were fishing for support of your decision instead of an honest question.
Happy new year mate.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Having seen many more spurious "chip" lights than real ones, I tend to treat them with some scepticism. However, they do need to be checked out. Having landed, I would never depart again without checking the detector for debris; I've done this a number of times in the past.
One day we were flying the MD and other higher management of the company I worked for (a major engineering manufacturer). The MGB chip light came on as we took off from the helipad at an outstation. We returned to the helipad and shut down. The MD watched us remove our jackets, roll up our sleeves and delve into the depths of the aircraft's upper deck (under the supervision of a maintenance organisation engineering supervisor via mobile phone). We retrieved the chip detector, inspected it, wiped it clear of debris (which was almost invisible, a miniscule hair like piece). We retained this on a piece of paper tissue sellotaped to a sheet of paper). We replaced the detector and the light was no longer on, so after a short ground run we were cleared to carry on back to base.
The MD said that he had no idea that his helicopter pilots were so willing to get their hands dirty in that way (his jet pilots wouldn't) and jokingly offered me an engineering apprenticeship! I told him I'd turned my engineering career down many years ago, to fly for a living. Probably my mistake, he drove a brand new Bentley, I only had a 14 year old Beemer!
One day we were flying the MD and other higher management of the company I worked for (a major engineering manufacturer). The MGB chip light came on as we took off from the helipad at an outstation. We returned to the helipad and shut down. The MD watched us remove our jackets, roll up our sleeves and delve into the depths of the aircraft's upper deck (under the supervision of a maintenance organisation engineering supervisor via mobile phone). We retrieved the chip detector, inspected it, wiped it clear of debris (which was almost invisible, a miniscule hair like piece). We retained this on a piece of paper tissue sellotaped to a sheet of paper). We replaced the detector and the light was no longer on, so after a short ground run we were cleared to carry on back to base.
The MD said that he had no idea that his helicopter pilots were so willing to get their hands dirty in that way (his jet pilots wouldn't) and jokingly offered me an engineering apprenticeship! I told him I'd turned my engineering career down many years ago, to fly for a living. Probably my mistake, he drove a brand new Bentley, I only had a 14 year old Beemer!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 557
Likes: 27
From: At home
Soave,
No, you landed for a check, but you did not check the most important items you should.
Now, I don't know if you get the difference between getting a light and returning to base and landing to check and a the nearest safe spot(Land ASAP) and THEN get airborne with the light which caused you to land, still ON.
Departing with a warning light ON, without checking if it is a real threat or not is in my eyes negligence (and I am sure if the fact were known to your insurance-company in the event of an emergency landing later on, would do to)
Now, nothing happened on the way back, good for you.
You wanted advice no?!
My only advice is that if you get a light again, check it out properly before get airborne.
Happy New Year to you too.
So you think it was safer for me to just turn back and land at the base as the RFM states
Now, I don't know if you get the difference between getting a light and returning to base and landing to check and a the nearest safe spot(Land ASAP) and THEN get airborne with the light which caused you to land, still ON.
Departing with a warning light ON, without checking if it is a real threat or not is in my eyes negligence (and I am sure if the fact were known to your insurance-company in the event of an emergency landing later on, would do to)
Now, nothing happened on the way back, good for you.
You wanted advice no?!
My only advice is that if you get a light again, check it out properly before get airborne.
Happy New Year to you too.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
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From: England & Scotland
2 experiences of chip light with 2 different EC120
One occurred on the ground - aircraft given to maintenance. A big (few mm) of metal on the gearbox plug - sent for analysis. Turned out to be a fragment from an oil can which must have been introduced during a top-up. That type of metal is not used in the gearbox. Double-flush of the gearbox in the meantime, and aircraft returned to service based upon the report from Eurocopter.
Second incident occurred in flight and the pilot brought the machine back to base - for which he got a bollocking; told in no uncertain terms to put it in a field and call for help (South of England, after all, so not that hostile a terrain). The gearbox plug showed significant fouling, and a gearbox strip showed bearing failure and associated collateral damage. This one was definitely a 'get it out of the sky if you want to live' event. Total gearbox refurb required.
One occurred on the ground - aircraft given to maintenance. A big (few mm) of metal on the gearbox plug - sent for analysis. Turned out to be a fragment from an oil can which must have been introduced during a top-up. That type of metal is not used in the gearbox. Double-flush of the gearbox in the meantime, and aircraft returned to service based upon the report from Eurocopter.
Second incident occurred in flight and the pilot brought the machine back to base - for which he got a bollocking; told in no uncertain terms to put it in a field and call for help (South of England, after all, so not that hostile a terrain). The gearbox plug showed significant fouling, and a gearbox strip showed bearing failure and associated collateral damage. This one was definitely a 'get it out of the sky if you want to live' event. Total gearbox refurb required.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,937
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From: UK/OZ
When the third chip light illuminated in a 24 hour period we curtailed our low level, night flight over a capital city with haste!
That particular TR was stuffed…with chunks of metal adorning the plug, engineer went pale when he saw it, knowing we had flown for 5 hours since the first the chip light warning.
Next day I noticed that the grey paint was flaking on the gearbox.
Maybe a coincidence or perhaps flaking paint is a sign of unwelcome heat!
Mickjoebill
That particular TR was stuffed…with chunks of metal adorning the plug, engineer went pale when he saw it, knowing we had flown for 5 hours since the first the chip light warning.
Next day I noticed that the grey paint was flaking on the gearbox.
Maybe a coincidence or perhaps flaking paint is a sign of unwelcome heat!
Mickjoebill
