Drones - the future
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Class G operates and relies on the requirement to "see and be seen" in order to comply with the right of way rules.
I've not yet seen or heard of a drone that can do this. It's one thing to issue a NOTAM when these things are being flown (which seems to happen now, quite rightly so), but if they are to be used on a far wider scale, the associated NOTAMS would become so plentiful that they would become ineffective. This is the present situation with regard to the increasing multitude of cranes in the London area. Surprisingly, since the tragic accident on 16th January this year near Vauxhall, every man and his dog seems to be using ever taller construction cranes. It's now impossible to plot and avoid the NOTAMed areas in any meaningful way (especially when SVFR clearances send aircraft straight towards them).
As helicopter pilots, going about our lawful business at relatively low altitudes, we are more likely to come into closer contact with drones than other airspace users. We need to be protected from the further danger of coming into contact with "blind", non-compliant drones.
I've not yet seen or heard of a drone that can do this. It's one thing to issue a NOTAM when these things are being flown (which seems to happen now, quite rightly so), but if they are to be used on a far wider scale, the associated NOTAMS would become so plentiful that they would become ineffective. This is the present situation with regard to the increasing multitude of cranes in the London area. Surprisingly, since the tragic accident on 16th January this year near Vauxhall, every man and his dog seems to be using ever taller construction cranes. It's now impossible to plot and avoid the NOTAMed areas in any meaningful way (especially when SVFR clearances send aircraft straight towards them).
As helicopter pilots, going about our lawful business at relatively low altitudes, we are more likely to come into closer contact with drones than other airspace users. We need to be protected from the further danger of coming into contact with "blind", non-compliant drones.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 228
Likes: 5
From: London, UK
Class G operates and relies on the requirement to "see and be seen" in order to comply with the right of way rules.
Surprisingly, since the tragic accident on 16th January this year near Vauxhall, every man and his dog seems to be using ever taller construction cranes.
I imagine regulation and certification and maybe insurance in developed countries will dramatically hike the costs so could turn out to be a Webvan 2.0 for Amazon.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
I'm not sure if accident is the right term to describe the outcome of flying VFR in blatant IMC at low level in a built up area.
But rather than get into that discussion (which has been previously done in great depth), the relevance was the plethora of these new NOTAMs and how they quickly become "white noise".
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 228
Likes: 5
From: London, UK
On the subject of noise that got a mention in Economist as a possible future nuisance in this brave new world.
I started to ponder the energy cost of general purpose deliveries. Amusingly, Paul Merton on Have I Got News for You was also on similar lines. Bloke from matternet passes judgement on AMZN:
Drone expert: Amazon's hypetastic delivery scheme a pie in the sky ? The Register
Dirigible hybrids, hydrogen come back?
Another question would be the tolerance for some low level of injury and death from something that offers both utility and maybe a lowering elsewhere, e.g. road transport.
I started to ponder the energy cost of general purpose deliveries. Amusingly, Paul Merton on Have I Got News for You was also on similar lines. Bloke from matternet passes judgement on AMZN:
Drone expert: Amazon's hypetastic delivery scheme a pie in the sky ? The Register
Dirigible hybrids, hydrogen come back?
Another question would be the tolerance for some low level of injury and death from something that offers both utility and maybe a lowering elsewhere, e.g. road transport.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: Hassocks, Mid-Sussex
Not sure about general use drones for tasks such as commercial deliveries etc. but I believe they will end up playing a significant role in urban police operations.
My previous comments are here.
My previous comments are here.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Andover
there was talk about this at my place some time ago. seeing as there's loads of gaze' knocking about now...
Northrop Grumman and Qinetiq offer UK Gazelle conversion
Northrop Grumman and Qinetiq offer UK Gazelle conversion
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 17th December 2013 at 09:03. Reason: Fix link and photo
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
From: australia
more drones
BBC News - US announces six drone test sites
how will drones impact helicopter pilot jobs in the future?
how will drones impact helicopter pilot jobs in the future?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
FAA announcement at Fact Sheet ? FAA UAS Test Site Program
DOD "Unmanned Systems Integrated Roadmap" at http://www.defense.gov/pubs/DOD-USRM-2013.pdf
DOD "Unmanned Systems Integrated Roadmap" at http://www.defense.gov/pubs/DOD-USRM-2013.pdf
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
For those interested, I think that France was the first EU country to have specific laws on unmanned aircraft. Currently the DGAC is consulting on a revision of their UAS rules, with new law expected to be introduced in 2014. Topics of heated debate are the definition of populated areas and the requirements for mandatory training. Anyone interested should make their representations accordingly....
Also in France, the national aviation police (the GTA) is responding to industrys complaints about unfair practices of a small number of UAS operators. I understand that at the end of 2013 approximately ten cases have been investigated. Under French law those found breaking the rules face a fine of up to 75,000 and/or one year of imprisonment, in addition to potential loss of license to operate UAS. To date I can find only one company, based in the South of France, that has been sanctioned.
Also in France, the national aviation police (the GTA) is responding to industrys complaints about unfair practices of a small number of UAS operators. I understand that at the end of 2013 approximately ten cases have been investigated. Under French law those found breaking the rules face a fine of up to 75,000 and/or one year of imprisonment, in addition to potential loss of license to operate UAS. To date I can find only one company, based in the South of France, that has been sanctioned.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,556
Likes: 56
From: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
If we end up with strike-capable military UAV being based in the UK in a few years then I can see good exercise value for them moonlighting in SAR.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena
Carboot drones for SAR?
If it's cheap and cheerful enough, a boot full of propellers might be just the ticket to guide mountain rescuers better, if the victim doesn't have their phone on. There are conditions that make life pretty miserable for the manned aircraft and foot bound searchers, and a drone that you're willing to accept might be disposable could make everyone's life safer, at some cost.
Once you start needing to book satellite time it starts getting tough to imagine it's cheap enough.
The firefighters killed in Arizona last spring might have benefited from a bit more situational awareness in bad flying weather too.
Once you start needing to book satellite time it starts getting tough to imagine it's cheap enough.
The firefighters killed in Arizona last spring might have benefited from a bit more situational awareness in bad flying weather too.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
From: 60 north
Heli-firefighting compromised by Drones
Dear fellow pilots.
As we are getting to terms over the loss of Hems crew in Oslo a new danger is highligted on the westcost of Norway.
This is the case, small town Lærdal is on fire, California style.!
30 houses burn down, luck has it no casualties.
From Rygge in Oslo two 412s are dispatched from Delta with fire bucets , and the only fire- fighting helicopter in Norway.
Only to find the Police telling all news and privat drone, light uav operators to clear the vally.
Aparently anyone can fly this kind of thing, what would is do to your rotor etc,.
I just doged 100 crows on takeoff today, but I can eat a lot of them with two Cfm 56s.
Question is can You live with this .!?
You Gentlemen have a big problem in Drone or UAV traffic comming.
I love to be wrong, but seldom am.!
Heads Up from BluSdUp.
Ps. Go nrk.no or vg.no to see the hamlet of Lærdal . A disaster , all survived.God must love Us.! ? Ds!
As we are getting to terms over the loss of Hems crew in Oslo a new danger is highligted on the westcost of Norway.
This is the case, small town Lærdal is on fire, California style.!
30 houses burn down, luck has it no casualties.
From Rygge in Oslo two 412s are dispatched from Delta with fire bucets , and the only fire- fighting helicopter in Norway.
Only to find the Police telling all news and privat drone, light uav operators to clear the vally.
Aparently anyone can fly this kind of thing, what would is do to your rotor etc,.
I just doged 100 crows on takeoff today, but I can eat a lot of them with two Cfm 56s.
Question is can You live with this .!?
You Gentlemen have a big problem in Drone or UAV traffic comming.
I love to be wrong, but seldom am.!
Heads Up from BluSdUp.
Ps. Go nrk.no or vg.no to see the hamlet of Lærdal . A disaster , all survived.God must love Us.! ? Ds!
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
From: UK
BluSdUp
So what's the problem? The drone pilot must always give way to full-size aircraft and has to look out for them at all times.
Only to find the Police telling all news and privat drone, light uav operators to clear the vally
You Gentlemen have a big problem in Drone or UAV traffic comming.
I love to be wrong, but seldom am.!
I love to be wrong, but seldom am.!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
From: Australia
So what's the problem? The drone pilot must always give way to full-size aircraft and has to look out for them at all times.
If in controlled airspace they would also need a transponder surely?
cheers tet.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
From: UK
tet
If flown out of sight of the operator that would be needed. However civil operated "news" drones only operate in direct line of sight of the operator or his observer, who can see clearly all around the arena.
Wouldn't that mean that all drones would have to be equipped with "seeing" equipment of some sort in their direction of travel at all times for when they are overtaking another aircraft from that aircraft's blind areas?
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
From: 60 north
Murphy is calling.!
Dear Heli comunity.
I started a thread and got diverted to this one, super, have not read the initial stuff.
With the idea of see and aviod I sugest You are all up the creek.
Imagine 3 Bell helicopters with fire bucets going flat out in a walley 1 mile times 3 miles from the sea ,closeby to the fire to save lives and property.
Gusty winds , hills allaround 6000" pluss.
Some of You are defending the use of privat and news rov, drones etc. Why?
This is a warning. We need to heed it.
Yours voried
Cpt B
I started a thread and got diverted to this one, super, have not read the initial stuff.
With the idea of see and aviod I sugest You are all up the creek.
Imagine 3 Bell helicopters with fire bucets going flat out in a walley 1 mile times 3 miles from the sea ,closeby to the fire to save lives and property.
Gusty winds , hills allaround 6000" pluss.
Some of You are defending the use of privat and news rov, drones etc. Why?
This is a warning. We need to heed it.
Yours voried
Cpt B
