Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
Why has no-one made me aware?
Sorry if this sounds blunt, but why should we? The battery will last for up to 30 minutes, that is enough power for one hell of an autorotation......
Sorry if this sounds blunt, but why should we? The battery will last for up to 30 minutes, that is enough power for one hell of an autorotation......
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Why has nobody made me aware the starter generator provides the electrical power and not a generator driven by the rotor accessory gearbox.
With both engines failed power is only available from the battery.
With both engines failed power is only available from the battery.
I understand that the generators are driven from the gearbox of each engine.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: nice house
Age: 57
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Robin400 is in fact a very pretty 21 yr old girl with all the right sizes and I'm guessing blond......pretending to be a 70 year old guy....it would explain a lot
What?
What a sad turn of events this thread has turned into, speculation of any sort not backed up by facts rather muddies the water and I think we forget about the human tragedy of this incident. 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Uk
Age: 67
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talkpedlar,
That's a bit rich! "with all due respect" and "lacks intelligence" In the same sentence!
Talkpedlar, perhaps you could enlighten me as to the post or posts that I have made that show my lack of knowledge, experience and Intelligence.
With all due respect, comments from Piechaser, Falcon900 and Robin 400 show clear lack of knowledge, relevant experience and even intelligence.
Talkpedlar, perhaps you could enlighten me as to the post or posts that I have made that show my lack of knowledge, experience and Intelligence.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Offshore
Age: 73
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Piechaser?
Your comments in 1904 and 1907 for starters. I never wish to offend but where did you trawl that garbage from?
Sorry but your lack of appropriate knowledge, experience and intelligence just shine through.
Regards,
TP
ps If I get time tomorrow I will respond at length..and to Robin400 too who seems to have covered everything except tyre-pressures and paint-scheme.
Sorry but your lack of appropriate knowledge, experience and intelligence just shine through.
Regards,
TP
ps If I get time tomorrow I will respond at length..and to Robin400 too who seems to have covered everything except tyre-pressures and paint-scheme.
Please!! Enough!
Despite nearly 40 years of flying helicopters professionally I do not feel qualified to comment on this thread as I have been retired for the past 10 years and I am therefore out of touch and I also have no knowledge of the EC135 or its systems.
It is a great pity that somehow comments on this tragedy cannot be restricted to those who qualify under the heading of this forum ie "a haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them". If you are not a helicopter professional then if you have genuine question I'm sure members will be willing to answer it but the unbelievable hypotheses from some posters who are not helicopter professionals contribute nothing to the thread and do disservice to those who have died in this disaster.
It is a great pity that somehow comments on this tragedy cannot be restricted to those who qualify under the heading of this forum ie "a haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them". If you are not a helicopter professional then if you have genuine question I'm sure members will be willing to answer it but the unbelievable hypotheses from some posters who are not helicopter professionals contribute nothing to the thread and do disservice to those who have died in this disaster.
The rotor System of an EC135 in operating conditions will have a stored energy the order of Magnitude of 3-5 MJ.
That is 5 Million Watt Seconds. So a 1600 Watts Night Sun would run for about 1 hour with the energy stored in the rotor.
Would you be so kind and stop pursuing this totally pointless path?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would you be so kind and stop pursuing this totally pointless path?
It might not be as pointless as your numbers suggest. If the generator is also a starter (e.g. like a Dynastart) then the potential shaft power could be significant in the event of a fault current flowing. A shorted or low-ohms starter motor can be one hell of a brake. I'd bet that it'd take any pilot by surprise in the event of failure of the turbines to deliver power to the rotor over an urban area at night.
skadi
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
skadi
If the freewheeling mechanism is not damaged or faulty. We are looking for some thing(s) that went wrong. I'm not tabling this as the reason for the crash, it's perplexing, but if we are going to speculate we ought to consider multiple failures or maybe a single primary cause that causes other damage.
Incidentally, on the subject of the effect of a full load on the generator braking the rotor shaft, of the Night Sun at 1600W, that's over 2hp. We can all visualise 1.5 electric fire bars in the context of heat power, but in terms of motive power, most of us are more comfortable with hp when it comes to orientation of magnitude. I've never experimented with an aircraft but I used to have a sailing yacht of around 3 tonnes mass (much the same as a 135) and I sometimes had to turn off the fast-charge circuit when motoring entering or leaving a harbour against the tide. Made a huge difference and that was with a 23hp diesel running.
Anything that takes a skipper by surprise in an already dangerous and high workload situation can turn routine into disaster, as I am sure we all know first hand (those near misses that still give us the collywobbles when we think of them years later?) - not that any of us here would have been so stupid
Lemain, it doesnt matter wether the generator brakes like hell or not! There is a freewheeling unit on the engines output shaft ( like your bicycle!! ).
Incidentally, on the subject of the effect of a full load on the generator braking the rotor shaft, of the Night Sun at 1600W, that's over 2hp. We can all visualise 1.5 electric fire bars in the context of heat power, but in terms of motive power, most of us are more comfortable with hp when it comes to orientation of magnitude. I've never experimented with an aircraft but I used to have a sailing yacht of around 3 tonnes mass (much the same as a 135) and I sometimes had to turn off the fast-charge circuit when motoring entering or leaving a harbour against the tide. Made a huge difference and that was with a 23hp diesel running.
Anything that takes a skipper by surprise in an already dangerous and high workload situation can turn routine into disaster, as I am sure we all know first hand (those near misses that still give us the collywobbles when we think of them years later?) - not that any of us here would have been so stupid
me thinks Robin 400 is a mindless reporter OR a complete fool cannot work out which !!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
The starter/generator output shaft has a weak point that has been built in to the design to shear if it seizes. So if the weak point failed AND the freewheeling failed AFTER BOTH engines failed, then dahdaaahhhhh, you have solved it.
FFS.
FFS.
2HP.
On a twin turbine helicopter with 1200+HP.
You don't want to tell me that you will notice a variation of +/- 1HP in an EC135???
Guys, seriously....
Chief Bottle Washer
Piechaser and Lemain,
A reminder that this forum is "for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them".
Neither of you are helicopter professionals yet you are abusing the courtesies being shown you by those who are. There are a number of non-professionals who have worn out their welcome and are restricted from posting here: it should be obvious to both of you that constant harping about trivialities with needless references to boating by Lemain are wearing very, very thin and you are on the verge of being similarly restricted.
A reminder that this forum is "for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them".
Neither of you are helicopter professionals yet you are abusing the courtesies being shown you by those who are. There are a number of non-professionals who have worn out their welcome and are restricted from posting here: it should be obvious to both of you that constant harping about trivialities with needless references to boating by Lemain are wearing very, very thin and you are on the verge of being similarly restricted.
