how helicopter flight time recorded
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how helicopter flight time recorded
helicopter takeoff & landing time recorded by pilot not accurate, so the calculation total flight time not accurate, should the VHM (EUROHUMS or M'arms) flight hours be vailable for maintance ?
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Rotors turning to rotors stopped.
Some Pilots over book - so the maintainence is getting done sooner
Some Pilots under book - so the maintainence gets done later.
Guess the ones who are hour building and the ones who are flying charter.
Onwards and upwards !!!!!!!
Some Pilots over book - so the maintainence is getting done sooner
Some Pilots under book - so the maintainence gets done later.
Guess the ones who are hour building and the ones who are flying charter.
Onwards and upwards !!!!!!!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Oh boy...... I can see another one of these debates coming up
FCL.010 – Definitions
‘Flight Time Helicopters’ means from the moment a helicopter’s rotor blades start turning until the moment the helicopter comes to rest at the end of the flight, and the blades are stopped.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/EASA%...02012%20v1.pdf
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I've always wondered about this when I flew fixed wing the organisation used to deduct . 2 every flight from the Hobbs for tech time this obviousley doesn't work for helicopters and more so on very short flights
One trip I do very often is a flight of 5 to 6 mins to collect fuel from local airfield and go to my hangar which is . 1 Tech time .if I add time for start up and shut down that goes to .2 or even . 3 I always put . 1 in my log book should I be putting more It would double my hours that does not sound correct .
One trip I do very often is a flight of 5 to 6 mins to collect fuel from local airfield and go to my hangar which is . 1 Tech time .if I add time for start up and shut down that goes to .2 or even . 3 I always put . 1 in my log book should I be putting more It would double my hours that does not sound correct .
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FAR's basically say from the time the aircraft MOVES under its own power for the purpose of flight, until it comes to rest at the end of that flight. By that definition, all the time while the blades are turning and you are doing your checks, etc is NOT flight time. Time does not start until the aircraft moves. At the end of the flight, the time stops when you come to a rest. NOT when you shut the engines down and the blades coast to a stop.
But it is your logbook, log what you need!!
But it is your logbook, log what you need!!
Last edited by Foggy Bottom; 2nd Nov 2013 at 09:29.
Depends exactly what you are looking at
For your personal log book time from rotors start to stop, you are PIC so don't leave the machine with rotors still spooling down!
For ac this has many different ways of being recorded
1. Hobbs meter. Records in .1 hours ( 6 mins) usually taken from gearbox pressure
2. datcon usually taken from a squat switch or collective switch new 300's and R44's respectively.
3. Good old fashioned watch
Whichever way you do it there is an element of inaccuracy or deliberate falsification.
told by Schweizer that they expected times to be from moment ac leaves ground to moment back on hence their fitting squat switches
hope that helps
For your personal log book time from rotors start to stop, you are PIC so don't leave the machine with rotors still spooling down!
For ac this has many different ways of being recorded
1. Hobbs meter. Records in .1 hours ( 6 mins) usually taken from gearbox pressure
2. datcon usually taken from a squat switch or collective switch new 300's and R44's respectively.
3. Good old fashioned watch
Whichever way you do it there is an element of inaccuracy or deliberate falsification.
told by Schweizer that they expected times to be from moment ac leaves ground to moment back on hence their fitting squat switches
hope that helps
Chief Bottle Washer
The advice about flight time/etc has been discussed at length in Helicopter Flight Time and numerous other threads. Without the OP giving his location it is difficult to guess the appropriate regulations to give a pertinent answer.
Some oil and gas companies who pay "airborne time" use VHM / HUMS / MARMS time as substantiation for charge time. Pilots watches, although big, are often surprisingly inaccurate. The WOW switch is accurate.
As Foggy Bottom stated, In FAA land you can legally log as PIC only that time form when the helicopter first moves under its own power until it stops. You can only log time on the ground between flights if the rotors remain in motion.
This has been the subject of an official legal interpretation. I know of a few pilots who showed up for check rides and had logged "all" the time from engine start to stop and were turned away due to lack of eligible hours.
Here is that interpretation, highlight added by me, I can provide a copy of the original if someone would like it:
This has been the subject of an official legal interpretation. I know of a few pilots who showed up for check rides and had logged "all" the time from engine start to stop and were turned away due to lack of eligible hours.
Here is that interpretation, highlight added by me, I can provide a copy of the original if someone would like it:
Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,
This responds to your letter dated December 13, 2006, in which you ask three questions concerning the logging of flight time in a helicopter. The answers all flow from the definition of"flight time" found in section 1.1 of Title14 Code of Federal Regulations.
Your three questions are:
1. May a pilot log as "flight time" to qualify for a certificate or rating under 14 CFR Part 61, or for purposes of qualifying under 14 CFR 135.243(b)(2), that time accrued in a helicopter when the aircraft is sitting on the ground with the engine running and rotor blades turning, but the aircraft has not moved from its parking place and flight has not yet commenced?
2. May a pilot log as "flight time" to qualify for a certificate or rating under 14 CFR Part 61, or for purposes of qualifying under 14 CFR 135.243(b)(2), that time accrued in a helicopter after the end of a flight prior to shut down when the helicopter has set down and come to a rest at its parking place, flight has ceased, but the engine is still running and rotor blades are still turning?
3. If a helicopter is equipped with a "time in service" meter that is actuated only by the collective pitch control, may a pilot add a couple of tenths of an hour of "flight time" to their log book in excess of the aircraft "time in service" meter reading, to account for the time that the aircraft is starting and running up at the beginning of the training period prior to lift off, and that time the engine is idling and cooling down after the last landing, prior to the engine being shut off?
The regulations in pertinent part define "flight time" as "[p]ilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." 14 C.F.R. § 1.1. As with fixed-wing aircraft, flight time in a helicopter commences the moment that it moves under its own power away from its parking place for the purpose of flight- whether departure is commenced by lifting off or taxiing. (Helicopters can be equipped with different types of landing gear; and those equipped with wheels or pontoons have the option of a vertical lift-off or taxiing before lift-off.) Flight time ends for any helicopter operation when the helicopter comes to rest after landing.
It follows from the plain words oft he regulation that the circumstances you described could not be logged as flight time.
The answer to all three questions is that flight time may not be logged.
This response was prepared by Viola Pando, Attorney in the Regulations Division of the Chief Counsel and has been coordinated with General Aviation Division of Flight Standards Service. If you have additional questions regarding this matter, please contact us at your convenience at (202) 267-3073.
Sincerely,
Assistant Chief Counsel Regulations Division
This responds to your letter dated December 13, 2006, in which you ask three questions concerning the logging of flight time in a helicopter. The answers all flow from the definition of"flight time" found in section 1.1 of Title14 Code of Federal Regulations.
Your three questions are:
1. May a pilot log as "flight time" to qualify for a certificate or rating under 14 CFR Part 61, or for purposes of qualifying under 14 CFR 135.243(b)(2), that time accrued in a helicopter when the aircraft is sitting on the ground with the engine running and rotor blades turning, but the aircraft has not moved from its parking place and flight has not yet commenced?
2. May a pilot log as "flight time" to qualify for a certificate or rating under 14 CFR Part 61, or for purposes of qualifying under 14 CFR 135.243(b)(2), that time accrued in a helicopter after the end of a flight prior to shut down when the helicopter has set down and come to a rest at its parking place, flight has ceased, but the engine is still running and rotor blades are still turning?
3. If a helicopter is equipped with a "time in service" meter that is actuated only by the collective pitch control, may a pilot add a couple of tenths of an hour of "flight time" to their log book in excess of the aircraft "time in service" meter reading, to account for the time that the aircraft is starting and running up at the beginning of the training period prior to lift off, and that time the engine is idling and cooling down after the last landing, prior to the engine being shut off?
The regulations in pertinent part define "flight time" as "[p]ilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." 14 C.F.R. § 1.1. As with fixed-wing aircraft, flight time in a helicopter commences the moment that it moves under its own power away from its parking place for the purpose of flight- whether departure is commenced by lifting off or taxiing. (Helicopters can be equipped with different types of landing gear; and those equipped with wheels or pontoons have the option of a vertical lift-off or taxiing before lift-off.) Flight time ends for any helicopter operation when the helicopter comes to rest after landing.
It follows from the plain words oft he regulation that the circumstances you described could not be logged as flight time.
The answer to all three questions is that flight time may not be logged.
This response was prepared by Viola Pando, Attorney in the Regulations Division of the Chief Counsel and has been coordinated with General Aviation Division of Flight Standards Service. If you have additional questions regarding this matter, please contact us at your convenience at (202) 267-3073.
Sincerely,
Assistant Chief Counsel Regulations Division
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Who really cares.
Log what you want and need.
As long as it is not ridiculous.
Pilots most of the time log more than is actually required - So maintainence is done earlier than required.
But beware. Theyr'e watching you !!!
Log what you want and need.
As long as it is not ridiculous.
Pilots most of the time log more than is actually required - So maintainence is done earlier than required.
But beware. Theyr'e watching you !!!
Who really cares.
I would also prefer if the pilot of the airliner I am flying did not lie about his hours to get a job......
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[QUOTE]
[/1. to establish the hours for continuing airworthiness - which is wheels up to wheels down;
2. to establish the hours for qualification in licensing terms - which is usually regarded as stick time; and
3. to establish the basis for responsibility and flight and duty times - which is as defined in ICAO Annex 6.]
THANKS ALL!
the company I servicing registered in CHINA, as my understanding,
JAR CPL--flight time for pilot--from rotor turning to stop.
MF ALS--Flight Hours (FH) for maintenance--- are counted from takeoff to landing.
[/1. to establish the hours for continuing airworthiness - which is wheels up to wheels down;
2. to establish the hours for qualification in licensing terms - which is usually regarded as stick time; and
3. to establish the basis for responsibility and flight and duty times - which is as defined in ICAO Annex 6.]
THANKS ALL!
the company I servicing registered in CHINA, as my understanding,
JAR CPL--flight time for pilot--from rotor turning to stop.
MF ALS--Flight Hours (FH) for maintenance--- are counted from takeoff to landing.
Last edited by MATT2000; 6th Nov 2013 at 00:47.
