Two Helos Collide in New Zealand
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
Is this glacier gig the same sort of thing as the deer hunting? Demanding flying sure enough but for what reason? To save lives? to win a war? Oh no it's about making money!
So we have to have sympathy when guys take operating conditions to (and clearly beyond in this case) the limits and, despite their 'god-like' skills, f**k up and are lucky not to kill everyone on board - and all in the name of making a few bucks from some tourists!
Sorry but I am with TC on this one. Seems like NZ aviation needs a dose of perspective.
So we have to have sympathy when guys take operating conditions to (and clearly beyond in this case) the limits and, despite their 'god-like' skills, f**k up and are lucky not to kill everyone on board - and all in the name of making a few bucks from some tourists!
Sorry but I am with TC on this one. Seems like NZ aviation needs a dose of perspective.
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Oxford, UK
Come on children, stop squabbling.
Knowing absolutely nothing about flying helos, but something similar can happen with gliders; if there is a stationary object in the middle of an otherwise undifferentiated field, more than once the object has a magnetic affect on the landing aircraft. Takes special care to miss the bus/vehicle/stationary glider, especially if otherwise distracted.
Knowing absolutely nothing about flying helos, but something similar can happen with gliders; if there is a stationary object in the middle of an otherwise undifferentiated field, more than once the object has a magnetic affect on the landing aircraft. Takes special care to miss the bus/vehicle/stationary glider, especially if otherwise distracted.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,060
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From: Auckland, New Zealand
Amazing how a simple post about an accident in NZ has revealed so much distaste for helo ops in NZ.
So Crab based on your comment quoted above does that mean we also shouldnt give a !!!! about your UK colleague who flew into the crane in downtown London. Wasnt he just making a few bucks from punters. Sounds like the UK helo industry needs to take a dose of perspective if you care to apply your comments back to your own industry.
Sad that this place used to be a place where professionals would act like adults instead now when a fellow aviator has an accident and is in hospital with serious head injuries all you can do is attack him, the Kiwi industry etc.
Is this glacier gig the same sort of thing as the deer hunting? Demanding flying sure enough but for what reason? To save lives? to win a war? Oh no it's about making money!
So we have to have sympathy when guys take operating conditions to (and clearly beyond in this case) the limits and, despite their 'god-like' skills, f**k up and are lucky not to kill everyone on board - and all in the name of making a few bucks from some tourists!
Sorry but I am with TC on this one. Seems like NZ aviation needs a dose of perspective.
So we have to have sympathy when guys take operating conditions to (and clearly beyond in this case) the limits and, despite their 'god-like' skills, f**k up and are lucky not to kill everyone on board - and all in the name of making a few bucks from some tourists!
Sorry but I am with TC on this one. Seems like NZ aviation needs a dose of perspective.
Sad that this place used to be a place where professionals would act like adults instead now when a fellow aviator has an accident and is in hospital with serious head injuries all you can do is attack him, the Kiwi industry etc.
Joined: Apr 2000
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Posts: 10,959
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From: EGDC
No, both stories are the same - professionals taking the risks one stage too far.
I appreciate it is a mate of yours but he is not in hospital because of anyone else's fault.
I appreciate it is a mate of yours but he is not in hospital because of anyone else's fault.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Auckland, New Zealand
Crab - Good to see that the same rules apply both sides of the equator.
While I had met the pilot in question a couple of times he wasnt a friend as such and yes the actions were his alone.
Hope they find out what happened and take whatever actions are needed.
While I had met the pilot in question a couple of times he wasnt a friend as such and yes the actions were his alone.
Hope they find out what happened and take whatever actions are needed.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Alles über die platz
DB
IMHO, not 'all' accidents are avoidable. Bird strikes for example 
"Accidents do happen, but most accidents are not really accidents. The guilty (negligent) party simply refuses to accept responsibility for negligence."
Are accidents avoidable or unavoidable by definition?
Having spent the better part of my life in aviation I can agree with you that all accidents are avoidable.
"Accidents do happen, but most accidents are not really accidents. The guilty (negligent) party simply refuses to accept responsibility for negligence."
Are accidents avoidable or unavoidable by definition?
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Omnipresent
Perspective is good. Hopefully lessons can be learned, this time without loss of life unlike the BundesPolizei accident in Germany a while back. Some comments may come across a little cutting and severe, emotion is difficult to convey by written word. Texting a nightmare ex girlfriend comes to mind, she always misinterpreted my iMessages. However the NZ heli industry is a very proud one, goes with the territory. Kiwi's are proud of everything and don't like criticism much, one of my best mates is a JAFA and thinks most things in life were invented in NZ and won't accept otherwise. What I've seen of the heli industry there wouldn't fill me with confidence much. Youtube videos don't help I'm afraid but lets wait and see what the report says, whiteout may have been possible. And yes, the individual referred to recently deceased in UK was at fault, but that doesn't mean everybody in the same country's industry is to be tarred with the same brush and therefore cannot criticise either....
Thoughts for balance.
Thoughts for balance.
Last edited by Hedski; 29th October 2013 at 20:36.
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4
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From: New Zealand
People speaking out of turn
Its very interesting to read the comments here. I see a lot of people seem eager to comment before any thought to what the details are or any investigation on the incident.
Firstly the news if anyone cared to read it would of clarified that it was a tour operation and not anything to do with deer recovery.
Secondly: The operator has the best per flight hour record in NZ for helicopters.
Now I dont really have much time for England either, So fairs fairs for the UK people saying bad things about NZ.. You wouldnt know a mountain if it kicked you in the ass if you are wondering why anyone would tip up on one. It happens all the time all over the world because the flying is high alt and weather conditions are challenging.
Both pilots are very experienced and like all pilots have the ability to make mistakes or not be able to control the situation enough to see all the possible out comes of each decision.
I dont believe the critics here deserve an explanation due to the utter poor intelligence they have shown in their comments.
I dont really care if the pilot or any pilot has made a mistake, As a pilot I know my turn is either about to come or I have already had it many times before now or soon after now.
My thoughts and prays are with the family and Pilot primarily while we hope he is able to make it out of his current condition alive.
My second efforts are to recover the situation and keep a positive way forward from any of the accidents any helicopters are involved in period.
And finally NZ like all countries has good and bad operators, Some are some of the best in the world and some are the worst. NZ has a passion for flying like no country I have been to for the number of people.
This company that had the crash, These pilots that were involved in the incident are some of the best I know world wide. Both strive every day for excellence and achieve it a large part of the time, Both were doing their best on the day when the situation didnt go to plan and one helicopter due to wind has ended in a situation where it drifted too close to the other helicopter in white landscape conditions with minimal reference(for those people who know snow landings).
There is no doubt a mistake has been made, But this is not one of absolute stupidity or arrogance, It was just a bad day where the odds court up with them and the thousands of snow landings they do each year to provide a perfect storm resulting in an accident.
People who fly, I hope you remember. Dont throw stones if you live in glass houses. Your day is coming I am absolutely assured of it, And the more you pass judgement and try make out these two pilots to be stupid, The more assured I am that your day is even sooner than you think.
Cheers to all those who have something positive to say and have genuine interest in the well being of the people involved and how they can learn from it.
Firstly the news if anyone cared to read it would of clarified that it was a tour operation and not anything to do with deer recovery.
Secondly: The operator has the best per flight hour record in NZ for helicopters.
Now I dont really have much time for England either, So fairs fairs for the UK people saying bad things about NZ.. You wouldnt know a mountain if it kicked you in the ass if you are wondering why anyone would tip up on one. It happens all the time all over the world because the flying is high alt and weather conditions are challenging.
Both pilots are very experienced and like all pilots have the ability to make mistakes or not be able to control the situation enough to see all the possible out comes of each decision.
I dont believe the critics here deserve an explanation due to the utter poor intelligence they have shown in their comments.
I dont really care if the pilot or any pilot has made a mistake, As a pilot I know my turn is either about to come or I have already had it many times before now or soon after now.
My thoughts and prays are with the family and Pilot primarily while we hope he is able to make it out of his current condition alive.
My second efforts are to recover the situation and keep a positive way forward from any of the accidents any helicopters are involved in period.
And finally NZ like all countries has good and bad operators, Some are some of the best in the world and some are the worst. NZ has a passion for flying like no country I have been to for the number of people.
This company that had the crash, These pilots that were involved in the incident are some of the best I know world wide. Both strive every day for excellence and achieve it a large part of the time, Both were doing their best on the day when the situation didnt go to plan and one helicopter due to wind has ended in a situation where it drifted too close to the other helicopter in white landscape conditions with minimal reference(for those people who know snow landings).
There is no doubt a mistake has been made, But this is not one of absolute stupidity or arrogance, It was just a bad day where the odds court up with them and the thousands of snow landings they do each year to provide a perfect storm resulting in an accident.
People who fly, I hope you remember. Dont throw stones if you live in glass houses. Your day is coming I am absolutely assured of it, And the more you pass judgement and try make out these two pilots to be stupid, The more assured I am that your day is even sooner than you think.
Cheers to all those who have something positive to say and have genuine interest in the well being of the people involved and how they can learn from it.
Joined: Oct 2013
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From: Europe
Couldnt agree more with helicopterinterested.
The Southern Alps on NZ are a very challenging enviroment indeed. Helicopters commonly operating at 4000 to 12,000 feet. Fresh snow, Glacier landings, high swirling winds ect. To my knowledge this company has been operating since the early 1980's with a fleet of some 20 helicopters and have a remarkable safety record and some of the best mountain pilots in the business. These armchair idots who feel they should share their expertise on exactly what happened and why just astound me to no end. I have spent most of my 34 year career in the mountains in Europe, Canada, Central Asia, South America and others and I know one thing for sure, it is a very unforgiving enviroment. Add snow, ice and high alpine winds to the mix, well its a hard day at the office thats for sure.
The very fact that one pilot can slag off another in these circumstances from across the other side of the world (whom they don't even know and adding the fact they have absolutely no clue as to what happened or why) is to my mind sinking to such low levels I feel this industry is becoming a lot like little old ladies gossiping at the corner store. These armchair warrior pilots have problay never even flown in 5,000 to 12,000 foot mountains like this company does every single day for the last 25 odd years. We have all had close calls in our time, every one of us, which could easily have gone either way
To all you armchair experts please stop being idiots, you really are bringing this industry to low levels. IMO We should be here to support each other. And no I do not fly in NZ (yet) but have been there and went on a heli few flights in the South Island and what a wonderful place it must be to fly in for a living. .
I will sit down to my scotch and now reflect on todays industry with some deep dissapoinment and ponder what my late father once told me. " Son opinions are like assholes, every one has got one, but an informed opinion based on fact, now thats gold".
The pilot as I undertsand is very seriously injured in a coma, my thoughts and best wishes go to him and his family. Because I for one very much care about what happens to a fellow heli pilot.
The Southern Alps on NZ are a very challenging enviroment indeed. Helicopters commonly operating at 4000 to 12,000 feet. Fresh snow, Glacier landings, high swirling winds ect. To my knowledge this company has been operating since the early 1980's with a fleet of some 20 helicopters and have a remarkable safety record and some of the best mountain pilots in the business. These armchair idots who feel they should share their expertise on exactly what happened and why just astound me to no end. I have spent most of my 34 year career in the mountains in Europe, Canada, Central Asia, South America and others and I know one thing for sure, it is a very unforgiving enviroment. Add snow, ice and high alpine winds to the mix, well its a hard day at the office thats for sure.
The very fact that one pilot can slag off another in these circumstances from across the other side of the world (whom they don't even know and adding the fact they have absolutely no clue as to what happened or why) is to my mind sinking to such low levels I feel this industry is becoming a lot like little old ladies gossiping at the corner store. These armchair warrior pilots have problay never even flown in 5,000 to 12,000 foot mountains like this company does every single day for the last 25 odd years. We have all had close calls in our time, every one of us, which could easily have gone either way
To all you armchair experts please stop being idiots, you really are bringing this industry to low levels. IMO We should be here to support each other. And no I do not fly in NZ (yet) but have been there and went on a heli few flights in the South Island and what a wonderful place it must be to fly in for a living. .
I will sit down to my scotch and now reflect on todays industry with some deep dissapoinment and ponder what my late father once told me. " Son opinions are like assholes, every one has got one, but an informed opinion based on fact, now thats gold".
The pilot as I undertsand is very seriously injured in a coma, my thoughts and best wishes go to him and his family. Because I for one very much care about what happens to a fellow heli pilot.
Last edited by djk59; 30th October 2013 at 06:01.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,303
Likes: 23
From: UK and MALTA
DJK and helicopters interested!
As a British helicopter pilot I apologise for the idiotic, insensitive posts by my fellow countrymen. It has astounded me how arrogant these individuals appear to be. Please do not be believe we are all this ignorant and rude in UK and Europe.
I hope the pilot, and in some cases, your friend, makes a good recovery.
DB
As a British helicopter pilot I apologise for the idiotic, insensitive posts by my fellow countrymen. It has astounded me how arrogant these individuals appear to be. Please do not be believe we are all this ignorant and rude in UK and Europe.
I hope the pilot, and in some cases, your friend, makes a good recovery.
DB
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 367
Likes: 7
From: Land of the Angles
Oh really DB.
Goodwill (in all cases) aside, just who nominated you to act as spokesman on behalf of your fellow countryman?
Clearly your viewpoint is from one who is already aware of the exact causes of said collision, just 48-hours’ after the event, yes?
Goodwill (in all cases) aside, just who nominated you to act as spokesman on behalf of your fellow countryman?
Clearly your viewpoint is from one who is already aware of the exact causes of said collision, just 48-hours’ after the event, yes?
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 75
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From: Under a grey cloud
As always we Brits are a little too quick to point out how people are not doing things 'right', (helicopterinterested, you don't need a capital letter after a comma... 
), and because we don't experience much in the way of genuine limited power, mountain illusions/weather, white-out, blowing snow, aerial utility work, or aerial tourism, we are quick to forget what helicopters are actually used for in more interesting parts of the world, and how they are operated! Take for example the debate on the Norweigan helicopter doing a hover exit, a helicopter being used...... as a helicopter.
We're quite good at offshore 'Performance Class 1' operations over here (well sometimes), and thats the level of safety and redundancy that we know and come to expect, you cannot wipe your a$$ unless you have a spare piece of tissue prepped and waiting, just incase. We're not very good at understanding that elsewhere in the world people fly around in the 'avoid' curve all day long, people use a single engine over cities, even to sling people off mountains (Class D load), and the general accepted risk is 'different', although still calculated.
These guys made a mistake (as ours did not so long ago causing the big fuss oop north) it will happen sooner or later, I hope they make a full recovery and get back to what they are very good at
), and because we don't experience much in the way of genuine limited power, mountain illusions/weather, white-out, blowing snow, aerial utility work, or aerial tourism, we are quick to forget what helicopters are actually used for in more interesting parts of the world, and how they are operated! Take for example the debate on the Norweigan helicopter doing a hover exit, a helicopter being used...... as a helicopter.We're quite good at offshore 'Performance Class 1' operations over here (well sometimes), and thats the level of safety and redundancy that we know and come to expect, you cannot wipe your a$$ unless you have a spare piece of tissue prepped and waiting, just incase. We're not very good at understanding that elsewhere in the world people fly around in the 'avoid' curve all day long, people use a single engine over cities, even to sling people off mountains (Class D load), and the general accepted risk is 'different', although still calculated.
These guys made a mistake (as ours did not so long ago causing the big fuss oop north) it will happen sooner or later, I hope they make a full recovery and get back to what they are very good at
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,303
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From: UK and MALTA
Hi life - you missed the point. It is precisely because we do not know the cause that makes insensitive judgemental posts totally inappropriate.
I have no idea what caused this. No real mountain experience and very little in snow. I just want to show a little solidity with a fellow pilot who is badly injured.
DB
I have no idea what caused this. No real mountain experience and very little in snow. I just want to show a little solidity with a fellow pilot who is badly injured.
DB
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 1
From: UK
Look guys, let's try NOT to be subjective or emotional here, eh? This is NOT a kiwi bashing exercise. Everyone knows you guys are at least as good as us
The issue here is this:
A helicopter pilot (irrespective of his/her talents) made a mistake and could have wiped everyone out in the blink of the eye. Now in this PARTICULAR circumstance (for those hard of hearing I am talking only of this situation - OK?) pilot A appears to have hit pilot B (who was stationary). It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with hot/high/whiteout/glaciers/phases of the moon. It is solely down to the prosecuting pilot COCKING up. Simples
There are those amongst us (me included) who believe we could/would never make that same mistake during that type of approach because of the way we have conditioned our processes. SA, human factors, call it what you will. This particular manouevre did not require exceptional skills to successfully carry out. It required pilot A to fly his machine onto a designated spot and make sure that spot was clear. He didn't (for whatever reason) and consequently has injured himself and or others in so doing.
For that reason alone - the pilot could justifiably be described as derelict in his duty. The Insurance company will have a field day, his company will see a massive hike in their future premiums and the injured parties will probably sue his ass.
So, back to my original comments: Debrief him, retrain him and if he can't or won't then sack him. Simples.
The issue here is this:
A helicopter pilot (irrespective of his/her talents) made a mistake and could have wiped everyone out in the blink of the eye. Now in this PARTICULAR circumstance (for those hard of hearing I am talking only of this situation - OK?) pilot A appears to have hit pilot B (who was stationary). It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with hot/high/whiteout/glaciers/phases of the moon. It is solely down to the prosecuting pilot COCKING up. Simples
There are those amongst us (me included) who believe we could/would never make that same mistake during that type of approach because of the way we have conditioned our processes. SA, human factors, call it what you will. This particular manouevre did not require exceptional skills to successfully carry out. It required pilot A to fly his machine onto a designated spot and make sure that spot was clear. He didn't (for whatever reason) and consequently has injured himself and or others in so doing.
For that reason alone - the pilot could justifiably be described as derelict in his duty. The Insurance company will have a field day, his company will see a massive hike in their future premiums and the injured parties will probably sue his ass.
So, back to my original comments: Debrief him, retrain him and if he can't or won't then sack him. Simples.
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 30th October 2013 at 10:26.
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: Under a grey cloud
It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with hot/high/whiteout/glaciers/
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Acceptable risk is what this incident is all about.
There are gifted helicopter pilots all over the globe with fantastic stick and rudder (or cyclic and collective) co-ordination. It is what you choose to do with those skills which is the great difference between various cultures and operations.
Part of that choice is what level of risk do you accept as the norm and where you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable risk; within that there has to be room for extenuating circumstances such as life-saving where a greater risk may be acceptable for a short period since the reward part of the risk/reward balance is greater, although even that has to have a cut-off point somewhere.
In NZ, the culture is clearly to accept a higher level of risk as the norm than would be the case in say the UK or parts of Europe. If the operators, regulators, insurers and customers are happy with those elevated levels of risk then fine, crack on but don't expect those from different cultures to sympathise when that elevated level of risk turns into an incident.
If an operator was to go to the UK CAA for an AOC to say they would like to land next to another helicopter in whiteout conditions on the top of a mountain and charge fare-paying customers for it, I suspect I know what the answer would be. In the Southern Hemisphere it is clearly different, not better or worse, whatever your viewpoint, just different.
Perhaps, in time, NZ will end up with the levels of regulation experienced in other parts of the world, in the meantime, don't be surprised when those of us from a more risk-conscious culture say 'WTF' when we see incidents like this occur.
Are Kiwis genetically better helo pilots that the rest of us? I doubt it. Do they have a higher level of acceptable risk in order to ply their trade? Clearly. Is it safe? That is a matter for conjecture and debate.
BTW night mountains in Snowdonia or the Glens in 50 to 70 kts of wind is equally challenging to the Southern Alps I would suggest, especially when you then have to put someone out on a wire to rescue someone. Just because it's not 5000 -12000 feet high doesn't mean it's not dangerous, scary and demanding.
There are gifted helicopter pilots all over the globe with fantastic stick and rudder (or cyclic and collective) co-ordination. It is what you choose to do with those skills which is the great difference between various cultures and operations.
Part of that choice is what level of risk do you accept as the norm and where you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable risk; within that there has to be room for extenuating circumstances such as life-saving where a greater risk may be acceptable for a short period since the reward part of the risk/reward balance is greater, although even that has to have a cut-off point somewhere.
In NZ, the culture is clearly to accept a higher level of risk as the norm than would be the case in say the UK or parts of Europe. If the operators, regulators, insurers and customers are happy with those elevated levels of risk then fine, crack on but don't expect those from different cultures to sympathise when that elevated level of risk turns into an incident.
If an operator was to go to the UK CAA for an AOC to say they would like to land next to another helicopter in whiteout conditions on the top of a mountain and charge fare-paying customers for it, I suspect I know what the answer would be. In the Southern Hemisphere it is clearly different, not better or worse, whatever your viewpoint, just different.
Perhaps, in time, NZ will end up with the levels of regulation experienced in other parts of the world, in the meantime, don't be surprised when those of us from a more risk-conscious culture say 'WTF' when we see incidents like this occur.
Are Kiwis genetically better helo pilots that the rest of us? I doubt it. Do they have a higher level of acceptable risk in order to ply their trade? Clearly. Is it safe? That is a matter for conjecture and debate.
BTW night mountains in Snowdonia or the Glens in 50 to 70 kts of wind is equally challenging to the Southern Alps I would suggest, especially when you then have to put someone out on a wire to rescue someone. Just because it's not 5000 -12000 feet high doesn't mean it's not dangerous, scary and demanding.
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand
Crab you are just the boring type of UK person we have to deal with moving to our country and then complaining about people jet boating, or music after 6, and in this case talking like a self imposed professor of aviation. I am glad your there and we are here. Yes we land on mountains, yes snow has reference issues. What does your boring attitude have to say about Canadians? Park up for winter. Your a very sad individual.
Ok. Let's clear this !!!! up now. As I was leasing the helicopter in question I know pretty much the details with in reason. It was a clear day. Lots if fresh snow. It was high. There was normal mountain wind enough that he took a second approach after not liking the first. The wind affected again his landing and possibly the fresh snow and drift affected his reference enough that he drifted over and tail came around with the small wind around and nicked the main rotor. The rest is easy to work out.
When your landing on mountains even though there seems to be lots of space you tend to stay in close proxy to the last landings as you know it's tested as a landing site.
Crab people come from all over the world to pay for tours into the mountains. And yes they want to take risks. Breathing is a risk. So where do we cut it off, I would say when you can show as this company has over decades of flying that the safe days far out number the unsafe ones. NZ is not for babies like you crab so stay in your Europe baby factory we Simply don't like people like you. Simples.
Ok. Let's clear this !!!! up now. As I was leasing the helicopter in question I know pretty much the details with in reason. It was a clear day. Lots if fresh snow. It was high. There was normal mountain wind enough that he took a second approach after not liking the first. The wind affected again his landing and possibly the fresh snow and drift affected his reference enough that he drifted over and tail came around with the small wind around and nicked the main rotor. The rest is easy to work out.
When your landing on mountains even though there seems to be lots of space you tend to stay in close proxy to the last landings as you know it's tested as a landing site.
Crab people come from all over the world to pay for tours into the mountains. And yes they want to take risks. Breathing is a risk. So where do we cut it off, I would say when you can show as this company has over decades of flying that the safe days far out number the unsafe ones. NZ is not for babies like you crab so stay in your Europe baby factory we Simply don't like people like you. Simples.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 1
From: UK
Helicopterinterested.
I think your advertised age and number of posts are the wrong way round.
Secondly, I think your first language isn't English is it?
Third (and this is a serious question) - are you a pilot?
Fourth - you are new here...very very new. Be extremely careful about throwing insults around and at people you have no idea about.
Example: I learned to mountain fly in the Rockies courtesy of the CAF.
I made my first ever landing, over 30yrs ago @ 12000' on a glacier. Within a year I was teaching military mountain flying. Crab is a very senior mil flying Instructor who has been flying longer than you have been alive.
Now - to get back to your witnessing of events. The pilot in question made two attempts at landing because he was unhappy about the first (clue number one). On his second approach he encountered mild white-out conditions but chose NOT to abort (clue number two). Instead he continued with the associated drift and loss of yaw control which you alluded to (clue number three}.
The swiss cheese holes all lined up and 'Voilà' (French for - behold!), He collided with the other parked helo.
Now for 'most' professional pilots reading this - it might raise the question: "why did he elect to consciously ignore any of the three warnings presented to him and press for home"?
And the logical answer is one of the following:
(a) Lack of SA.
(b) Lack of judgement.
(c) Poor Captaincy/airmanship.
For non aviators amongst us - the rules are the same here as they are for every other mode of transport: A moving vehicle collided with a stationary vehicle. You might therefore ask the question - was the driver of the moving vehicle derelict in his duty?
Helicopterinterested, you have to choose now - he's your pilot. Will you trust future fare paying passengers with this guy, will you retrain him, or will you sack him and hire an expert?
The choice is yours..............or is it the insurance company's?
I think your advertised age and number of posts are the wrong way round.
Secondly, I think your first language isn't English is it?
Third (and this is a serious question) - are you a pilot?
Fourth - you are new here...very very new. Be extremely careful about throwing insults around and at people you have no idea about.
Example: I learned to mountain fly in the Rockies courtesy of the CAF.
I made my first ever landing, over 30yrs ago @ 12000' on a glacier. Within a year I was teaching military mountain flying. Crab is a very senior mil flying Instructor who has been flying longer than you have been alive.
Now - to get back to your witnessing of events. The pilot in question made two attempts at landing because he was unhappy about the first (clue number one). On his second approach he encountered mild white-out conditions but chose NOT to abort (clue number two). Instead he continued with the associated drift and loss of yaw control which you alluded to (clue number three}.
The swiss cheese holes all lined up and 'Voilà' (French for - behold!), He collided with the other parked helo.
Now for 'most' professional pilots reading this - it might raise the question: "why did he elect to consciously ignore any of the three warnings presented to him and press for home"?
And the logical answer is one of the following:
(a) Lack of SA.
(b) Lack of judgement.
(c) Poor Captaincy/airmanship.
For non aviators amongst us - the rules are the same here as they are for every other mode of transport: A moving vehicle collided with a stationary vehicle. You might therefore ask the question - was the driver of the moving vehicle derelict in his duty?
Helicopterinterested, you have to choose now - he's your pilot. Will you trust future fare paying passengers with this guy, will you retrain him, or will you sack him and hire an expert?
The choice is yours..............or is it the insurance company's?