Is there a better aircraft than the 109AII for the price ?

[nomorehelosforme]

500Guy

I respect that totally but was Nigella talking about 109's

[nigelh]

No , not a dealer . Just someone who wants to fly great helicopters without spending a fortune !! Which I have managed to do by buying the right type for the right price and selling when there is a profit ..... Maybe that makes me a dealer ??!! I don't think power line is the reason for the 500 price rise as most go abroad to do other things.... The price of a new one may explain more .

[Anthony Supplebottom]

nomorehelos - It was me who mentioned Castle Air at first and also that Nigel should push the Mk II in terms of sales, given that he is so enamoured with it.

Try not to be too judgmental. It helps.

[Ian Corrigible]

The appeal of a 109 is obvious, but since the question is asked -- 'Is there a better aircraft than the 109AII for the price?' -- it's worth noting that S-76A++ prices are also now at $800K and below.

So...Swallow or Spirit?

I/C

[nomorehelosforme]

AS

Point taken

[nigelh]

I hadn't thought of the old 76 !! I think you are getting into something that's just too big for private use and landing in your garden ..... Also can you pick up good spares machines for around £100k ? This is the key question ..... Can I get cheap spares if something goes wrong ? Also don't really know about the engines , but the 250 in the 109 is as cheap as they get !!
We still don't have a contender to beat the good old 109

[Hughes500]

Nigel

have you asked TC for his opinion ? I am sure he will give you some guidance

[nigelh]

Thanks for that gem ....!!
I forgot to point out that you only want one with an aux tank. ( 2 hrs to dry without one ) and they are like hens teeth to find to retrofit . Let me know if you know of one !!

[John Eacott]

Originally Posted by nigelh

It seems the next best thing would be a big jump in purchase price and operating cost of a Power ? And for the extra £1m you get very very little extra performance .

Having done a bit of time in both, I'd query the assertion that there is little extra performance in the Power. The payload/range in the AII is very iffy with the distances we need in Australia, I'd have to have three legs Melbourne - Gold Coast in an AII flying solo and at 8-9,000ft to reduce fuel burn and only 130kts at 90% Tq. What Tq do you use, nigel? And OEI performance is not exactly inspiring.....

The Power also suffers range/payload but at least it can take a couple of pax with full fuel, and achieve closer to 145kts cruise at mid weights and 80% Tq. For those not familiar with the 109, the earlier marks have a max continuous Tq of 123%, so 90% indicated is actually ~75% of max continuous. From the 109C on the gauge was adjusted to give max continuous as 100%, far more sensible!

Also the Power has better seats and 'room' for the driver, the AII is a shocker suitable only for a legless dwarf or an Italian Moto2 rider Plus the Power has an actual OEI capability and a proper boot that will take a couple of sets of skis!

[claudia]

John, No doubt the points you make are true but as Nigel said i would
prefer the mark2 in my hangar and £1,000000 cash in the bank! Plus a fraction of the insurance costs and no horrendously costly glass screens to worry about! Similar reasons as to why i run a 355f1 and not a 355n.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

claudia - similar correlation though in that the F1's performance is no match for the N in much the same way as the MkII cannot compete with the E.

I understand however that the older models still perform well and that they are significantly more economical - for the time being.

[helihub]

nigelh - how would a 109 Mk.II compare with a Bell 430? Do you already have one of these?

[timprice]

Don't like 430 too complicated, 222 better she's a pilots machine.

[md 600 driver]

GAZELLE 342/341

[jackh]

gotta love the 109's! Weren't Tiger Helicopters operating a Mk II for a while? (G-TGRA)