Vietnam......The Helicopter War
Thread Starter
Helicopters in Combat-Vietnam
We introduced this topic in the current PHI EMS crash thread and rather than divert a very important discussion about EMS safety perhaps we might take the opportunity to explore helicopter aviation during the Vietnam War in which a lot of us old geezers took part in.
This is a link that shows helicopters operating into a "Hot" LZ where the infantry are engaged with the NVA. It is one of the better video's I have found so far.
This is a link that shows helicopters operating into a "Hot" LZ where the infantry are engaged with the NVA. It is one of the better video's I have found so far.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: US
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASLESS
This is going to be a tough one. Too few of us, and too few with perspective. Love to see the guys from Australia pipe in! Worked near them a bit but never knew much about their tactic, etc.
This is going to be a tough one. Too few of us, and too few with perspective. Love to see the guys from Australia pipe in! Worked near them a bit but never knew much about their tactic, etc.
Thread Starter
The 135th EMU's were a composite unit of Australians and Americans. One of my drinking chums flew for them until he took a round through his shoulder only four months into his tour of duty. That retired him from the Army with less than two years in.
I also heard today that Phil Connolly is planning to add another helicopter to what will hopefully one day be a full Air Cav Troop!
I also heard today that Phil Connolly is planning to add another helicopter to what will hopefully one day be a full Air Cav Troop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: England... what's left of it...
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not that I have any experience, but is there any worse fighting environment than a jungle...
Not sure if I'd prefer trooping or being a low-level hanging target in a Huey... scary. I always think it's a wonder more weren't lost.
Not sure if I'd prefer trooping or being a low-level hanging target in a Huey... scary. I always think it's a wonder more weren't lost.
Thread Starter
My Chinook unit did quite a bit of work with the Ozzie's....and frequently shared invites to BBQ's and the like. A lot of us were able to trade poncho liners for their leather boots which shamed American made.
Seems we called the beer "Green", "Yellow" and "Red".....it also shamed what we called beer in those days. Anyone else remember the rusty Black Label beer that must have been made in WWII and stored in the tropical sun until sold to us in 68-70?
At one of our parties....with the booze flowing rapidly....my Company Commander (a Major) got very upset with the lads for splashing in the pools of rain water and hanging upside down from the rafters drinking pints of beer.
The Major made a slight tactical error when he upbraided the most boistrous of the Australians.....seems he picked the Brigadier for the victim of his rant.
Words along the line of "Go away boy, you bother me!" as translated from the Australian dialect used by the General resulted in a very crestfallen US Army Major going to his room.
Good Lads those Aussies and Kiwi's!
Seems we called the beer "Green", "Yellow" and "Red".....it also shamed what we called beer in those days. Anyone else remember the rusty Black Label beer that must have been made in WWII and stored in the tropical sun until sold to us in 68-70?
At one of our parties....with the booze flowing rapidly....my Company Commander (a Major) got very upset with the lads for splashing in the pools of rain water and hanging upside down from the rafters drinking pints of beer.
The Major made a slight tactical error when he upbraided the most boistrous of the Australians.....seems he picked the Brigadier for the victim of his rant.
Words along the line of "Go away boy, you bother me!" as translated from the Australian dialect used by the General resulted in a very crestfallen US Army Major going to his room.
Good Lads those Aussies and Kiwi's!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harwich
Age: 65
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Too few of us, and too few with perspective' - very perceptive WhirlwindIII.
I don't have the faintest clue what the vets went through (nor what the current generation are finding in Afghanistan or Iraq), and reading the posts brings me no closer than reading a brilliantly-written novel. But you lived through it. Every day, you did not know whether you were going to live or die. By definition, you were the lucky ones. 35 years later you're remembering the 'good' bits. For me, if I don't step off the kerb at the wrong time, it will be a dull, senile, dribbling drift off to sleep in about the year 2045.
I actually met SASless at Helitech 2005 beside the Huey, and he invited me to sit at the pilot's station. I was so excited! I felt like a little kid. Partly because 'hey, I'm in a Huey!', but mostly because I couldn't actually reach the controls it was so damn big. Then he drew the bullet-proof screen across and the fun drained right out of it. People died in that machine. On the other side of the aircraft, their names were written on the door.
I feel guilty laughing at these funny stories, because I haven't earned the right to. A lot of civilians haven't. But please keep telling them, because they deserve to be read.
I don't have the faintest clue what the vets went through (nor what the current generation are finding in Afghanistan or Iraq), and reading the posts brings me no closer than reading a brilliantly-written novel. But you lived through it. Every day, you did not know whether you were going to live or die. By definition, you were the lucky ones. 35 years later you're remembering the 'good' bits. For me, if I don't step off the kerb at the wrong time, it will be a dull, senile, dribbling drift off to sleep in about the year 2045.
I actually met SASless at Helitech 2005 beside the Huey, and he invited me to sit at the pilot's station. I was so excited! I felt like a little kid. Partly because 'hey, I'm in a Huey!', but mostly because I couldn't actually reach the controls it was so damn big. Then he drew the bullet-proof screen across and the fun drained right out of it. People died in that machine. On the other side of the aircraft, their names were written on the door.
I feel guilty laughing at these funny stories, because I haven't earned the right to. A lot of civilians haven't. But please keep telling them, because they deserve to be read.
Thread Starter
Malcolm McPherson's book "Robert's Ridge" relates the account of a Spec Ops mission gone horribly wrong in Afghanistan. One of the Chinook helicopters was hit by an RPG and suffered a Flight Control Hydraulics failure (The "Collective" would begin to bind up as fluid pumped into the resevoir was lost!) and the account of how the crew worked together to land the aircraft safely is an amazing story.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: US
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Black Label, aka Panther P*ss, aka Star Beer, aka whatever we had in Egypt, aka bottled Champion in Nigeria - Gawd, the head ache from Formaldehyde (Sp? - quite the opposite of Champion from the keg fetched from the brewery in Uyo).
SASLESS, sounds like the BlackCat callsign out of Phu Loi!? Nui Dat is a place remembered.
The Australians in RVN just had a matter-of-fact about them that hit me curiousity button those days. Their directness, AND ability to take a hit, makes them honorary Americans! A kind of having both feet on the ground, or flight deck floor, that was handsomely a matter of home.
What Helo Vets went through in RVN, hmmmmm....., let me see. Quite varigated and LONG days, good flying (if one enjoys being cannon fodder, no offense, but let's be real), a few interuptions from Sir Charles and the ever present highly disciplined NVA, and a menu of progressive exposure to obnoxious things like bigger and bigger, and more and more bang bang shoot 'em up, and down! Maybe that was just me waking up to the reality of the skitiation but I remember from about month 8 or so it seemed I progressively lost breakfast before hitting the flight line, and wound up coming back to the states @15% lighter than when I went there. Flying at night for six months on search and destroy with the INFANT and a couple Cobras, C&C (CCS), a medevac, and a light ship made us the premier piss-'em-off (they being NVA) unit/s that bluntly made me think reprisal. Two months after getting out of there our unit had a ground attack that didn't do much damage but proved my suspicion we were knocking on all the right doors. Got the heck out of the Green Machine (NO disrespect whatsoever!!) and pursued me life of interest and leisure, having felt I paid a bit of due. The Good bits were definitely the comfort of knowing what could be done, would be done in the short, and eventually the long, to get me butt out of there. Reunions are the most comfortable place on earth, hands down.
From the number of posts below I realize perhaps this is a nice thing to talk about.
SASLESS, sounds like the BlackCat callsign out of Phu Loi!? Nui Dat is a place remembered.
The Australians in RVN just had a matter-of-fact about them that hit me curiousity button those days. Their directness, AND ability to take a hit, makes them honorary Americans! A kind of having both feet on the ground, or flight deck floor, that was handsomely a matter of home.
What Helo Vets went through in RVN, hmmmmm....., let me see. Quite varigated and LONG days, good flying (if one enjoys being cannon fodder, no offense, but let's be real), a few interuptions from Sir Charles and the ever present highly disciplined NVA, and a menu of progressive exposure to obnoxious things like bigger and bigger, and more and more bang bang shoot 'em up, and down! Maybe that was just me waking up to the reality of the skitiation but I remember from about month 8 or so it seemed I progressively lost breakfast before hitting the flight line, and wound up coming back to the states @15% lighter than when I went there. Flying at night for six months on search and destroy with the INFANT and a couple Cobras, C&C (CCS), a medevac, and a light ship made us the premier piss-'em-off (they being NVA) unit/s that bluntly made me think reprisal. Two months after getting out of there our unit had a ground attack that didn't do much damage but proved my suspicion we were knocking on all the right doors. Got the heck out of the Green Machine (NO disrespect whatsoever!!) and pursued me life of interest and leisure, having felt I paid a bit of due. The Good bits were definitely the comfort of knowing what could be done, would be done in the short, and eventually the long, to get me butt out of there. Reunions are the most comfortable place on earth, hands down.
From the number of posts below I realize perhaps this is a nice thing to talk about.
Thread Starter
My very dear Chap! There is no reason why one should be so crude and insulting. Why anyone with even a modicum of knowledge would never malign the parentage of others who had faced the Dragon in its lair by breathing such heresay.
This might sort out some of those jumbled brain cells of thine!
This might sort out some of those jumbled brain cells of thine!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember the "Black Cats" at Phu Loi. We were across the runway on the North end. I flew Cobras out of there from Sep., 69 thru, Apr., 70, then on to the Delta. We were Troop D (Air), 1/4 Cav, 1st Inf Div.
The Aussies would occasionally come over from Lai Khe and fly front seat Cobra with us. I remember getting into a sh*t fight with the NVA and my Aussie front seater was not shooting the turret during the breaks.. I asked him why he wasn't shooting and he said that he was too busy taking pictures!!
One of the few funny times.
The Aussies would occasionally come over from Lai Khe and fly front seat Cobra with us. I remember getting into a sh*t fight with the NVA and my Aussie front seater was not shooting the turret during the breaks.. I asked him why he wasn't shooting and he said that he was too busy taking pictures!!
One of the few funny times.
Thread Starter
Were you there when a Scout Pilot named Louwassa (sic) was making legends? He and I met vicariously in-country and wound up in the same National Guard unit afterwards.
It seems he was sat on his Vietnamese made folding chair cleaning his rifle when a burst of machine gun fire straddled where he was sat. As he told that tale in our bar at the NG Armory, he identified the source of the gunfire as being a Chinook. Someone then asked me "Didn't you fly Chinooks out of Phu Loi?" I quickly answered "Nay!".
It was my right door gunner that fired off the rounds....the entire trigger mechanism fell off the M-60 when he closed the feed cover over the belt of ammo and the gun ran away. The gunner immediately twisted the belt and shut the gun down.
I quizzed the crew on what had happened and they promised me on their Mum's Grave that none of the rounds went inside the airfield perimeter. Three years later the truth came out during a game of Pool.
Lou was the scout pilot who got pinned down by a .51 Caliber MG on the side of Nui Ba Dinh mountain. Every time he tried to climb out of the crevice he was hiding the aircraft in....the .51 let loose on him getting the occasional hit. After no short time he announced to his Cobra buddies that he was running out of stuff to hide behind as the .51 was trimming the trees down which he was hiding behind. His buddies asked him how he was doing and Lou said "I think I am winning!" as his gunner was shooting back with an M-60.
It seems he was sat on his Vietnamese made folding chair cleaning his rifle when a burst of machine gun fire straddled where he was sat. As he told that tale in our bar at the NG Armory, he identified the source of the gunfire as being a Chinook. Someone then asked me "Didn't you fly Chinooks out of Phu Loi?" I quickly answered "Nay!".
It was my right door gunner that fired off the rounds....the entire trigger mechanism fell off the M-60 when he closed the feed cover over the belt of ammo and the gun ran away. The gunner immediately twisted the belt and shut the gun down.
I quizzed the crew on what had happened and they promised me on their Mum's Grave that none of the rounds went inside the airfield perimeter. Three years later the truth came out during a game of Pool.
Lou was the scout pilot who got pinned down by a .51 Caliber MG on the side of Nui Ba Dinh mountain. Every time he tried to climb out of the crevice he was hiding the aircraft in....the .51 let loose on him getting the occasional hit. After no short time he announced to his Cobra buddies that he was running out of stuff to hide behind as the .51 was trimming the trees down which he was hiding behind. His buddies asked him how he was doing and Lou said "I think I am winning!" as his gunner was shooting back with an M-60.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sasless,
I don't recognize that name. We had scouts of course, but B Company of the 1st Aviation Battalion (not to be confused with 1st Aviation Brigade), 1st ID also had OH-6's and along with their Cobras conducted some Hunter-Killer missions, though not as many as we did. We flew Hunter-Killer missions almost exclusively.
Our unit was Dark Horse. Our scout platoon leader, Hugh Mills later wrote a book called "Low Level Hell" which was not exactly accurate as far as who did what. We had Pipe Smoke as well as Black Cat haul our aircraft out of the bush after being shot up, which happened often.
The AO was pretty intense with a lot of .51 cal shooting at us, but the Delta was a lot worse. The shallow water table down south of My Tho didn't allow for deep bunkers so the NVA had to stay topside and shoot it out with us when we found them.
I don't recognize that name. We had scouts of course, but B Company of the 1st Aviation Battalion (not to be confused with 1st Aviation Brigade), 1st ID also had OH-6's and along with their Cobras conducted some Hunter-Killer missions, though not as many as we did. We flew Hunter-Killer missions almost exclusively.
Our unit was Dark Horse. Our scout platoon leader, Hugh Mills later wrote a book called "Low Level Hell" which was not exactly accurate as far as who did what. We had Pipe Smoke as well as Black Cat haul our aircraft out of the bush after being shot up, which happened often.
The AO was pretty intense with a lot of .51 cal shooting at us, but the Delta was a lot worse. The shallow water table down south of My Tho didn't allow for deep bunkers so the NVA had to stay topside and shoot it out with us when we found them.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: US
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Darkhorse 30 - Fast forward to Nov 1970, please. We were E Troop 3/17th based at 334th (northeast side of Phu Loi), Op Con to 1/9th, with tents at Quan Loi doing CCS. Did you perchance fly the XV15?
Interesting to know the Delta was a lot worse. Some RVN helo books are a bit much to me though some professional and informative. I guess one never knows how others perceive such work and later pen it to paper. Some guys really had a much tougher time over there than I did.
Flew out of Chau Duc to places north for awhile but in our time frame things were hot and cold so I couldn't say things were a lot worse there than flying out of QL to the north. Of course QL north got hot @May 1971 for a short time, replete with tanks and ZSU 23/4, etc.
Regards.
Interesting to know the Delta was a lot worse. Some RVN helo books are a bit much to me though some professional and informative. I guess one never knows how others perceive such work and later pen it to paper. Some guys really had a much tougher time over there than I did.
Flew out of Chau Duc to places north for awhile but in our time frame things were hot and cold so I couldn't say things were a lot worse there than flying out of QL to the north. Of course QL north got hot @May 1971 for a short time, replete with tanks and ZSU 23/4, etc.
Regards.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Australians in RVN just had a matter-of-fact about them that hit me curiousity button those days. Their directness, AND ability to take a hit, makes them honorary Americans!
EMU got you slicks, TAIPAN got you guns
EMU27 (Dong Tam)
Thread Starter
Brian,
Did you know a wee tyke named Dexter Greene....did four months with the 135th and took a round in his shoulder and was medevacced.
As he is an avid golfer, he reckons he got his handicap after a single round.
Did you know a wee tyke named Dexter Greene....did four months with the 135th and took a round in his shoulder and was medevacced.
As he is an avid golfer, he reckons he got his handicap after a single round.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Carolina
Age: 75
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knight 18 here with the 114th out of Vinh Long, March 70-71. I recall that Emu outfit. A bunch of them paid us a visit once and brought a bunch of that Australian beer. I drank it just like I would the American stuff and when I got up to leave there were two doors going out when I knew there had only been one coming in. The one I picked going out was actually the brick wall the base of which is where I came to the next morning.
What I remember best about the Emu's was the incredible bad luck the Aussies seemed to have. They were good pilots and all, but if a lift of five went in with 3 US and 2 Aussies and 2 were shot down, it seemed the 2 were the Aussies.
I always figured it was that Karma thing. The Aussies being Navy always claimed they didn't "understand our system" so they skated on the crap jobs like supply officer (or so I was brought to understand before I walked into the wall...) in the Emu outfit.
I've always been prejudiced in favor of any Australian (or Kiwi for that matter) I've met since then, there weren't many who stood along side us then.
When Iraq was getting ready to go down I told my son who was an infantry buck sergeant with the 101st, that France wasn't going, but Britain and Australia were. Having served with both the French and British in Kosovo he simply replied "Good and good...but I don't know anything about the Aussies dad...?" I told him they were right good fellows but to stay the heck away from their beer...
What I remember best about the Emu's was the incredible bad luck the Aussies seemed to have. They were good pilots and all, but if a lift of five went in with 3 US and 2 Aussies and 2 were shot down, it seemed the 2 were the Aussies.
I always figured it was that Karma thing. The Aussies being Navy always claimed they didn't "understand our system" so they skated on the crap jobs like supply officer (or so I was brought to understand before I walked into the wall...) in the Emu outfit.
I've always been prejudiced in favor of any Australian (or Kiwi for that matter) I've met since then, there weren't many who stood along side us then.
When Iraq was getting ready to go down I told my son who was an infantry buck sergeant with the 101st, that France wasn't going, but Britain and Australia were. Having served with both the French and British in Kosovo he simply replied "Good and good...but I don't know anything about the Aussies dad...?" I told him they were right good fellows but to stay the heck away from their beer...