Vietnam......The Helicopter War
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,833
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From: Sale, Australia
SAS - contact tells me he was 2nd Platoon Peter Pilot at Bear Cat 5/13/69 - 8/29/69 (before my time)
In May '05 his address was:
Dexter Greene
4025 Ebert Road
Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27127-6657
email [email protected]
Phone (336) 785-3645
In May '05 his address was:
Dexter Greene
4025 Ebert Road
Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27127-6657
email [email protected]
Phone (336) 785-3645
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Whirlwind,
The 334th took our barracks at Phu Loi around April of 70 when our unit left. The 1st Infantry (Bid Red One) "went home" on April 1, 1970 which was a joke. Our unit was re-designated Troop C , 16th Cav and sent to Soc Trang, then to Can Tho. We kept the same people, aircraft, call signs, and even the ARP's. I think that the only ones that went home were the CG and the CSGM.
Helped in some of the preliminary design of the XV-15 before going into the Army in 1968, but did not fly it.
The Delta was so flat that your just set your altimeter to zero and you were rarely more than 20 feet wrong. The bad guys couldn't dig deep to cover themselves as in tunnels in III Corp, like in the Iron Triangle or Cu Chi. They had spider holes and shallow bunkers, otherwise hid among the vegetation, villages, etc. They had no problem just stepping out into the open and open up on you. They also seemed to have a lot more .51 cal anti aircraft guns, as many as eight at a time. We killed a lot more of them in the delta and lost more aircraft. We also made the incursion into Cambodia.
The 334th took our barracks at Phu Loi around April of 70 when our unit left. The 1st Infantry (Bid Red One) "went home" on April 1, 1970 which was a joke. Our unit was re-designated Troop C , 16th Cav and sent to Soc Trang, then to Can Tho. We kept the same people, aircraft, call signs, and even the ARP's. I think that the only ones that went home were the CG and the CSGM.
Helped in some of the preliminary design of the XV-15 before going into the Army in 1968, but did not fly it.
The Delta was so flat that your just set your altimeter to zero and you were rarely more than 20 feet wrong. The bad guys couldn't dig deep to cover themselves as in tunnels in III Corp, like in the Iron Triangle or Cu Chi. They had spider holes and shallow bunkers, otherwise hid among the vegetation, villages, etc. They had no problem just stepping out into the open and open up on you. They also seemed to have a lot more .51 cal anti aircraft guns, as many as eight at a time. We killed a lot more of them in the delta and lost more aircraft. We also made the incursion into Cambodia.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: US
Darkhorse
Thank you for the information. I very much enjoy filling in the history gaps with input from real world vets!
Flew the XV15 on conceptual evaluation for a huge bank. Of course there remained all sorts of questions but it had vertical capability and speed, obviously. The complexity of the concept, particularly the V22 which I toured, didn't seem to lend the aircraft to the somewhat straight-forward high cycle and dispatch reliability required of commercial operations. My final thought was that helicopter upper speed barriers were going to be broken one way or the other thus precluding the requirement for such complex machinery. I was absolutely stunned at being able to select a downwards tilting deck angle below 60 knots IAS such that one could fully view the landing area - absolutely fantastic, especially after 3000+ in S76.
WIII
Thank you for the information. I very much enjoy filling in the history gaps with input from real world vets!
Flew the XV15 on conceptual evaluation for a huge bank. Of course there remained all sorts of questions but it had vertical capability and speed, obviously. The complexity of the concept, particularly the V22 which I toured, didn't seem to lend the aircraft to the somewhat straight-forward high cycle and dispatch reliability required of commercial operations. My final thought was that helicopter upper speed barriers were going to be broken one way or the other thus precluding the requirement for such complex machinery. I was absolutely stunned at being able to select a downwards tilting deck angle below 60 knots IAS such that one could fully view the landing area - absolutely fantastic, especially after 3000+ in S76.
WIII
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
I departed for my second tour (volunteered actually) on 1 April 70.....that should have been a warning for how that tour would go. (Fool's Day)
Did the Cambodia thing supporting 11th Armored Cav and 1st Aircav...got whacked very near Katum in the morning....and again in the afternoon north of Bu Dop. Second time was the charm....quick posting to Japan and the Burn Unit at Camp Zama then back home for convalesence.
Did the Cambodia thing supporting 11th Armored Cav and 1st Aircav...got whacked very near Katum in the morning....and again in the afternoon north of Bu Dop. Second time was the charm....quick posting to Japan and the Burn Unit at Camp Zama then back home for convalesence.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: US
SASless
Welcome home!
First I was told that was just about five years ago. Hope this is not your first.
Sorry to hear about the trip to Japan, and glad you are here on this Forum.
Your contributions are oft brilliant and much appreciated!
Welcome home!
First I was told that was just about five years ago. Hope this is not your first.
Sorry to hear about the trip to Japan, and glad you are here on this Forum.
Your contributions are oft brilliant and much appreciated!
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Texas
WhirlwindIII
I work across the runway from the Bell X-WORKS which is where most of their experimental stuff is done. The 609 flies frequently there and south of the Arlington airport, along with the ARH and some others. It is interesting to me that they would latch on to Nick Lappos as the X-WORKS VP when he is/was such a vocal critic of tiltrotors. I guess I'll never understand the politics at Bell, nor do I choose to try.
I will be flying a UH-1H in Oklahoma again starting Thursday of next week looking for marijuana growth. I was there last week and will have another mission in August.
The 609 looks kind of small to me. I would have thought that they would have designed something along the lines of 10-12 passengers plus pilot. I believe that they did design it with a collective instead of power levers like the V-22. The collective seems to be more intuitive.
I work across the runway from the Bell X-WORKS which is where most of their experimental stuff is done. The 609 flies frequently there and south of the Arlington airport, along with the ARH and some others. It is interesting to me that they would latch on to Nick Lappos as the X-WORKS VP when he is/was such a vocal critic of tiltrotors. I guess I'll never understand the politics at Bell, nor do I choose to try.
I will be flying a UH-1H in Oklahoma again starting Thursday of next week looking for marijuana growth. I was there last week and will have another mission in August.
The 609 looks kind of small to me. I would have thought that they would have designed something along the lines of 10-12 passengers plus pilot. I believe that they did design it with a collective instead of power levers like the V-22. The collective seems to be more intuitive.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Texas
Sasless,
Since we were in the Delta, we were supporting the ARVN 1st Division(I think) and did not cross the Cambodian border until 10-14 days after the others crossed near the Parrot's Beak. We launched basically north to the town of Tuc Meas, the first day being the roughest. Lots of antiaircraft fire, and shot up ARVN's, including some US Army advisers. We did not lose any crews until after we pulled out about two weeks later. Must have really stirred them up.
The U Minh forest was the worst place in the Delta, though not really a forest. It was mostly palm trees and low brush in a huge swamp. We had four aircraft shot down on the southern edge, but managed to get all of our guys out, some wounded and sent home. We did lose several ARVN, about 25 I think.
Since we were in the Delta, we were supporting the ARVN 1st Division(I think) and did not cross the Cambodian border until 10-14 days after the others crossed near the Parrot's Beak. We launched basically north to the town of Tuc Meas, the first day being the roughest. Lots of antiaircraft fire, and shot up ARVN's, including some US Army advisers. We did not lose any crews until after we pulled out about two weeks later. Must have really stirred them up.
The U Minh forest was the worst place in the Delta, though not really a forest. It was mostly palm trees and low brush in a huge swamp. We had four aircraft shot down on the southern edge, but managed to get all of our guys out, some wounded and sent home. We did lose several ARVN, about 25 I think.
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From: US
Darkhorse 30
Needless to say Nick has a good understanding of process and how to get from A - Z whilst consuming the least time. I suspect his presence has far less to do with tiltrotor and more to do with helicopters doing 250 knots. He sure has the background.
Yes, the 609 is small and probably not going much of anyplace. I suspect that realization is dawning on Bell thus my suspicion mentioned above.
I liked the collective in the XV15. As you say, intuitive.
WIII
Needless to say Nick has a good understanding of process and how to get from A - Z whilst consuming the least time. I suspect his presence has far less to do with tiltrotor and more to do with helicopters doing 250 knots. He sure has the background.
Yes, the 609 is small and probably not going much of anyplace. I suspect that realization is dawning on Bell thus my suspicion mentioned above.
I liked the collective in the XV15. As you say, intuitive.
WIII
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
I tried to sell Nick on the concept of a new V speed....that being Vmrc....or in the working world of helicopters....Velocity, Max Revenue Cruise. How slow can you fly without the customer throwing a fit!
All he wanted to do was talk about how fast the Sikorsky ABC went....with two turbojet engines hung on the sides.
All he wanted to do was talk about how fast the Sikorsky ABC went....with two turbojet engines hung on the sides.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: US
I wonder if his presence at Bell in light of ABC has been mentioned elsewhere.
Of course IMHPO (In My Humble Pundit Opinion) the one very important thing about ABC is not stalling either blade layer via speed, turbulence or maneuvering, whatever, etc.!
Of course IMHPO (In My Humble Pundit Opinion) the one very important thing about ABC is not stalling either blade layer via speed, turbulence or maneuvering, whatever, etc.!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Downeast
Vietnam......The Helicopter War
Some folks have asked in the past about "stories" from Vietnam Helicopter Pilots.
Anyone that flew there during the "American War" has some to tell.....but I prefer to relay other's accounts as they are far more exciting than my own.
This is one of them.....as it portrays the gallantry, loyalty, and sacrifice of so many who served.
I have always said.....my Life's greatest honor is to have been allowed to serve with such Men. What they did a normal course of business, with great humility, day after day, is what set the Standard for those who followed after them.
One story of many.....
Special Operations.Com
Rosendo Montana, SP5, Army, Big Spring TX, 15Apr70 11W008 - The Virtual Wall®
TogetherWeServed - SSG Herndon Arrington Bivens
Information on helicopter or incident 68-16203
Dak Seang SF Camp
Anyone that flew there during the "American War" has some to tell.....but I prefer to relay other's accounts as they are far more exciting than my own.
This is one of them.....as it portrays the gallantry, loyalty, and sacrifice of so many who served.
I have always said.....my Life's greatest honor is to have been allowed to serve with such Men. What they did a normal course of business, with great humility, day after day, is what set the Standard for those who followed after them.
One story of many.....
Special Operations.Com
Rosendo Montana, SP5, Army, Big Spring TX, 15Apr70 11W008 - The Virtual Wall®
TogetherWeServed - SSG Herndon Arrington Bivens
Information on helicopter or incident 68-16203
Dak Seang SF Camp
Last edited by SASless; 4th July 2013 at 13:07.
RotorHead
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 8
From: Canada
I had the pleasure of meeting a Nam CH-53 Pilot last year when I was in America. He didn't say to much about it which is understandable. A good friend of his told me he flew Medevac missions in the 53 and was shot down after lifting from the landing site with a full load of injured troops. The Pilot in question was severely injured but recovered from his injuries after 5 months in hospital I believe.
I was lucky enough to fly in his Bell 47 with him before leaving the states. He was impressed with my first go in the 47. Remarkable person!
I was lucky enough to fly in his Bell 47 with him before leaving the states. He was impressed with my first go in the 47. Remarkable person!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
This was another hard fought battle....during Lam Son 719 towards the end of the War.
Count the Huey's in the photo if you can find them all.
LZ Lolo Picture
Count the Huey's in the photo if you can find them all.
LZ Lolo Picture
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
You are 19-20 years old....Aircraft Commander on a Huey....you have about 600-700 hours total flying time and about Six Months in Country.....your Unit is engaged in Combat Assaults along the Vietnam/Laotian border in support of South Vietnamese Forces going up against Main Force North Vietnamese Regulars of Division sized units. It ain't a real good Day.....
Compared to Malaya and Borneo.....things were a bit different in Vietnam.
Aircraft losses of the Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Compared to Malaya and Borneo.....things were a bit different in Vietnam.
Aircraft losses of the Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by SASless; 9th July 2013 at 17:17.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
A couple of Recon Teams are discovered by the North Vietnamese and find themselves fighting far superior forces and call for help. One Team sets up and fights in place....and the other is running being pursued by the NVA.
A recording of the event......which shows how things sounded when you were involved in those kinds of actions.
Anyone listening to the recording can understand why Military Helicopter flying in combat....is a very intense experience sometimes.
A recording of the event......which shows how things sounded when you were involved in those kinds of actions.
Anyone listening to the recording can understand why Military Helicopter flying in combat....is a very intense experience sometimes.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Downeast
The Huey.....one of the Icons of the Vietnam War and of Helicopter Aviation worldwide.
The Sound that Binds | Small Wars Journal
The Sound that Binds | Small Wars Journal
