60 Minutes (Australia) investigation Robinson
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can opener
Well put TLN,
Add the original rotor brake warning light switch as the ignition source just in case the mags etc don't do the job (the later switch, swapped with the mod, is described as 'waterproof' AFAICR (?)) and a simple 'Oops sorry I've broke your heli' can likely turn into a disaster in an unmodded machine.
A good friend of mine who learned to fly at the same time as me and went on to become a training captain for one of the budget airlines received horrific burns in a light aircraft crash a few years back. Quite how he survived we will never know. He was on TV recently in a highly moving documentary. He is still having skin grafts.
I love my R44, my second machine. The bladder tank mod, carried out by HeliAir at Wellesbourne ( I wouldn't let anybody else touch it) was done quickly and efficiently. If you still have the old tanks, give them a call, book your machine in and call in on the way for a coffee here. I'm only 5 minutes away.
Get it done. You know it makes sense.
Hairy
Add the original rotor brake warning light switch as the ignition source just in case the mags etc don't do the job (the later switch, swapped with the mod, is described as 'waterproof' AFAICR (?)) and a simple 'Oops sorry I've broke your heli' can likely turn into a disaster in an unmodded machine.
A good friend of mine who learned to fly at the same time as me and went on to become a training captain for one of the budget airlines received horrific burns in a light aircraft crash a few years back. Quite how he survived we will never know. He was on TV recently in a highly moving documentary. He is still having skin grafts.
I love my R44, my second machine. The bladder tank mod, carried out by HeliAir at Wellesbourne ( I wouldn't let anybody else touch it) was done quickly and efficiently. If you still have the old tanks, give them a call, book your machine in and call in on the way for a coffee here. I'm only 5 minutes away.
Get it done. You know it makes sense.
Hairy
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lots of human interest side with the families of those who have died. I am ok with this those people have a right to have their stories told.
Not very technical, but not everyone watching is a LAME so what do you expect.
Quite damning of CASA, for not enforcing that the mod be carried out until early 2013. Anyone reading the aus forums would not be shocked that CASA appear not to be fully on the ball or just straight up incompetent.
Quite damning of robinson. Who refused to comment. Who sent out a directive that those flying in r44s wear helmets, fireproof suits and goggles. ( I am a little disbelieving here, if they did that, ughhh).
Pointed out that the 15m test for fuel tanks came in after production started but didn't understand why the post reg r44s were not required to meet that std. A fair question, you can argue both sides of that one.
That was most of it.
Not very technical, but not everyone watching is a LAME so what do you expect.
Quite damning of CASA, for not enforcing that the mod be carried out until early 2013. Anyone reading the aus forums would not be shocked that CASA appear not to be fully on the ball or just straight up incompetent.
Quite damning of robinson. Who refused to comment. Who sent out a directive that those flying in r44s wear helmets, fireproof suits and goggles. ( I am a little disbelieving here, if they did that, ughhh).
Pointed out that the 15m test for fuel tanks came in after production started but didn't understand why the post reg r44s were not required to meet that std. A fair question, you can argue both sides of that one.
That was most of it.
luke999
Robinson Safety Notice SN 40 refers wearing nomex suit,gloves etc as per show. Not sure if it was really to advise those that have high risk flights, mustering etc or for all pilots but it could be read either way.
Whilst we should not expect better of 60 Minutes it is galling to have watched a programme which set out to tell only part of the story. The 60 Minutes Facebook site is now full of outraged moaning Minnies cancelling R44 flights around Australia: I pity the operators taking calls this morning. Hardly more than a passing mention in the report about CASA grounding non modified R44s since April.
Does anyone else see the humour in the Nine Network taking their traffic report feeds from R44 Newscopters?
Does anyone else see the humour in the Nine Network taking their traffic report feeds from R44 Newscopters?
top
Yes well I was trying to be kind and find a positive where there is not much of that in evidence. 
I also have a view that the so called drop test for the tank was unfair in that the tank doesn't fly around on its own but in fact has skids under it and a frame around it. Having said that the results of a crash are self evident and its probably ok just as a demo of how they might react to a hit. I believe there is more damage coming from the flex plate assembly flogging the bejesus out of everything when the tail departs that is the bigger problem. Overall it was hard to find too much inaccuracy in the report though except, that no one mentioned that you have to crash first before there is a problem, no crash , no burn.
I also have a view that the so called drop test for the tank was unfair in that the tank doesn't fly around on its own but in fact has skids under it and a frame around it. Having said that the results of a crash are self evident and its probably ok just as a demo of how they might react to a hit. I believe there is more damage coming from the flex plate assembly flogging the bejesus out of everything when the tail departs that is the bigger problem. Overall it was hard to find too much inaccuracy in the report though except, that no one mentioned that you have to crash first before there is a problem, no crash , no burn.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oz Trailer
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes nice post TLN. Interesting all the off topic discussion about other aircraft etc... - an indication that theres not much to discuss about the 60 mins story. I think the facts are self evident.
I understand that Robinson are "self insured". I also understand they have settled three claims from Ivor's accident for millions (well 2 for millions, one for less) - out of court. I think this settlement is the tip of the iceberg, and I wonder how Robinson will survive this. Especially once the remaining cases go through the US courts.....
Perhaps the pursuit of US settlements will save CASA from legal proceedings here in Aus to some degree.
Hmmmm....
TB
I understand that Robinson are "self insured". I also understand they have settled three claims from Ivor's accident for millions (well 2 for millions, one for less) - out of court. I think this settlement is the tip of the iceberg, and I wonder how Robinson will survive this. Especially once the remaining cases go through the US courts.....
Perhaps the pursuit of US settlements will save CASA from legal proceedings here in Aus to some degree.
Hmmmm....
TB
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DXB (orig. frm SYD)
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
R44 distribution
Who distributes the R44 here in Aus? I don't think Robinson has an office here based on 60Mins ambush yesterday!
Last edited by airbornesyd; 8th Jul 2013 at 03:37. Reason: more info
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
60 minutes
I see on the 60 Minute website that there are a couple of related videos. When I select one, the ads play and I then get a 'your video will play after the ads.'
Nothing happens. Any ideas?
I do have a new IMac and am on a steep learning curve with it...Finger trouble?
All the best
HP
Nothing happens. Any ideas?
I do have a new IMac and am on a steep learning curve with it...Finger trouble?
All the best
HP
The 60 Minutes Facebook site is now full of outraged moaning Minnies cancelling R44 flights around Australia:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bit remiss of me to never have studied the R44 crash reports in detail. do they report tanks ruptured or do they report how tanks ruptured with a sequence.
R22 flex plates are now all much stronger than the initial items, so very rare to see flex plate breakage.
Now i know nothing at all about lightweight body armour etc, plenty of people here would, whats wrong with glueing some strips of such material in the high risk areas which will still remain even with bladders?
seems easy enough to contain turbine blades nowadays doesn't it?
cheers tet
R22 flex plates are now all much stronger than the initial items, so very rare to see flex plate breakage.
Now i know nothing at all about lightweight body armour etc, plenty of people here would, whats wrong with glueing some strips of such material in the high risk areas which will still remain even with bladders?
seems easy enough to contain turbine blades nowadays doesn't it?
cheers tet
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lost friends
Hi Hughsey.
So sorry to hear of your lost friends.
Are you able to post links to the Accident Reports?
I for one, as an R44 owner am very keen to learn from them.
Best
HP
So sorry to hear of your lost friends.
Are you able to post links to the Accident Reports?
I for one, as an R44 owner am very keen to learn from them.
Best
HP
Was just thinking the same myself. Either some basic plates or something bonded to the tanks to contain the flex plate and at least deflect or absorb the initial turning inertia, or all of it preferably? Combined with bladder tanks it would have to be steps in the right direction!
Hairyplane, the following provides a very substantial listing of R-44 mishaps.
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety WikiBase > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety WikiBase > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
tet
I know the flex plates were re designed at one stage some time ago, after a couple broke in flight in Australia (r22's). I don't know of recent problems with that. What I was referring to is hitting or losing the tail/boom which acts on the short shaft to allow it to rotate in to the inside section of the tank. I agree with others here even with the fuel bladder it wouldn't hurt to have something magic to protect the tank.
