UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread
I estimate based on 25 hours/month with taskings on top I would expect you must be flying about 450-500 hours a year? Is this correct?
10 hours/month is too simplistic a calculation not taking in to account leave, sim training and various other commitments that remove a crew member from his/her flying duties. The estimated work pattern for BHL crew is 7-8 shifts a month restricted by FTL and ultimately the WTD of 2000 hours. This equates to about 15 hours a month, with taskings on top you're looking at roughly 25 hours a month. If that's flown over an average of 7 shifts in the month you're in the air for over 3.5 hours per shift. That doesn't sound insignificant to me. In fact it almost exactly reflects my own flying for the last 12 months having taken my full compliment of leave and 2 sim trips.
10 hours/month is too simplistic a calculation not taking in to account leave, sim training and various other commitments that remove a crew member from his/her flying duties. The estimated work pattern for BHL crew is 7-8 shifts a month restricted by FTL and ultimately the WTD of 2000 hours. This equates to about 15 hours a month, with taskings on top you're looking at roughly 25 hours a month. If that's flown over an average of 7 shifts in the month you're in the air for over 3.5 hours per shift. That doesn't sound insignificant to me. In fact it almost exactly reflects my own flying for the last 12 months having taken my full compliment of leave and 2 sim trips.
The other point to bear in mind is that SAROps may go on for a number of hours, but time spent searching and/or in transit is rarely useful training, whereas on a training sortie one can concentrate on a variety of the key skills. A 90-120 minute training sortie will typically generate much more useful training for the crew than a 6-8 hour SAROp.
It's important when entering a discussion to have a clue what you're talking about. It adds so much to your credibility. Mil SAR still work 24 hour shifts, as will Bristow. On downwind decks it's not the aircraft that's downwind.
Does it require 25 hours per pilot per month - no. If it does, we need new pilots.
No I haven't. Aircrew rations were a great example of a total luxury.
As Vie pointed out - it adds a lot to your credibility if you have a vague clue what you are talking about - now you can do a downwind deck downwind if you like but there is probably an easier option, it can depend on how fast the boat is moving
So this is what it comes to - tea, coffee and chocolate.
Wow. I hope I never have to get any of you come and fish me out. Will ensure my life jacket has a choccy bar in it in case you get hungry on your way home.
Flying is not rocket science. We make it sound difficult to look cleverer than we are. Virtually everything pilots do is a combination of systems monitoring (particularly in the civilian world), using the technology, crew management, basic straight and level and hovering. Be as sarcastic as you like, SAR is a good job and it isn't easy but you're not supermen, saying you are is an insult to the rest of us.
Good luck in the brave new commercial world. Be prepared for one hell of a shock.
Wow. I hope I never have to get any of you come and fish me out. Will ensure my life jacket has a choccy bar in it in case you get hungry on your way home.
Flying is not rocket science. We make it sound difficult to look cleverer than we are. Virtually everything pilots do is a combination of systems monitoring (particularly in the civilian world), using the technology, crew management, basic straight and level and hovering. Be as sarcastic as you like, SAR is a good job and it isn't easy but you're not supermen, saying you are is an insult to the rest of us.
Good luck in the brave new commercial world. Be prepared for one hell of a shock.
I say again - when you know what you are talking about, someone might listen to your opinions but you clearly don't have a clue.
Some of the rearcrew can be considered supermen (and women) but none of us SAR pilots has claimed anything of the sort.
Some of the rearcrew can be considered supermen (and women) but none of us SAR pilots has claimed anything of the sort.
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[QUOTE] Some of the rearcrew can be considered supermen (and women) but none of us SAR pilots has claimed anything of the sort.[QUOTE]
If some of the rear crew could be considered supermen, why would they only be paid in peanuts?
Good luck to those guys at the end of the wire getting paid less than half of those in the dry seats up front.
Does anyone have any news about the possible shortfall in recruiting of rear seat crew for the contract start date?
If some of the rear crew could be considered supermen, why would they only be paid in peanuts?
Good luck to those guys at the end of the wire getting paid less than half of those in the dry seats up front.
Does anyone have any news about the possible shortfall in recruiting of rear seat crew for the contract start date?
If some of the rear crew could be considered supermen, why would they only be paid in peanuts?
Good luck to those guys at the end of the wire getting paid less than half of those in the dry seats up front.
Good luck to those guys at the end of the wire getting paid less than half of those in the dry seats up front.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
That's a question you need to ask the contractors, the MCA and the CAA.
Between the HHO responsibilities, hover controls and the risk levels for HEC, one might easily imagine that a responsible regulator would step in and make reasonable demands of rear crew and operators that would drive good systems of work and responsible management.
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Standard decks, downwind decks, left to rights, right to lefts, trapped decks, RIBs, hi-lines, multi-seat dinghies, wets, ejectees, sits, IEC sits, drums, extended cable drums, AHT, navigation, GH, radar let downs, mountains.
These are the basics. If only a few of these are currently being practised at night by coastguard crews then they clearly need more than 50 hours per month if they're to take over successfully from the military. The 'Bristow have been doing this since 1971' argument holds no water if all of these basic training exercises haven't been being completed in daylight and after dark.
These are the basics. If only a few of these are currently being practised at night by coastguard crews then they clearly need more than 50 hours per month if they're to take over successfully from the military. The 'Bristow have been doing this since 1971' argument holds no water if all of these basic training exercises haven't been being completed in daylight and after dark.
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Trainee SAR Winchmen
I see a number of ex - HEMS and Helimed guys changing their profiles on other media to "trainee SAR Winchman" positions with BHL
It looks like BHL will follow Bond down the Paramedic to Winchman career path, good thinking?
With the impending Falkalnds contract in 2015, this could prove an ideal training platform for ab-initio rear crew and even pilots to get some sound training experience before being moved over to the UK SAR project.
It looks like BHL will follow Bond down the Paramedic to Winchman career path, good thinking?
With the impending Falkalnds contract in 2015, this could prove an ideal training platform for ab-initio rear crew and even pilots to get some sound training experience before being moved over to the UK SAR project.
Crab:
You say no one is listening and yet I've got a bite from you each time. Believe it or not I'm not trying to be a WUM, I'm just amazed that people fight the system so much. Give up or join the system and change from within. The last people who influence the helicopter operators are the pilots. They are a tradable commodity, there's always more pilots. It's a business and people are desperate to get into it.
PS - I'm 99% sure I know who you are if you have been a crab@saavn in the last 15 years and I have nothing but the highest respect for your opinions, we just disagree on this topic.
You say no one is listening and yet I've got a bite from you each time. Believe it or not I'm not trying to be a WUM, I'm just amazed that people fight the system so much. Give up or join the system and change from within. The last people who influence the helicopter operators are the pilots. They are a tradable commodity, there's always more pilots. It's a business and people are desperate to get into it.
PS - I'm 99% sure I know who you are if you have been a crab@saavn in the last 15 years and I have nothing but the highest respect for your opinions, we just disagree on this topic.
You say no one is listening and yet I've got a bite from you each time
I have moved on and the new SAR service will be what it will be - some good bits and some not so good bits I suspect - I do at least have faith that a lot of good quality operators are moving across, although they will just have to do as they are told in the brave new world.
The challenges facing the new service are far greater and more complex than what was required on the S61 contracts with no NVD capability and a limited overland night capability as a result. Can they meet the challenges? Yes but not by limiting the training hours and paying the rearcrew peanuts.
I suspect I am who you think I am.
mmitch - the RAF SAR Force has taken part in a lot of multi-agency exercises like that (I have done 3 or 4 myself) any idea how many the MCA crews have done????? Or how many hours will be allocated in the future to such exercises???Or who will be acting as a SARLO at any major overland disaster????
Yes, yes and yes.
If all you want is to wait for tasking and then wonder why you don't get used more, then don't go to these exercises.
If you want to understand how the Gold and Silver system works and want them to understand SAR capabilities and limitations, ensure that your representative in the Silver/Gold setup has decent comms and can liaise properly with the other emergency services and realise what other capabilities exist among them then perhaps it might not be a bad idea to engage and attend.
At least 80% of UKSAR is overland where the MCA don't have primacy so perhaps that is where more effort needs to be expended by a new and professional SAR service - just putting a coastie with a radio near the Gold/Silver control probably won't be as effective
We have worked with Urban Sar teams, swift water rescue teams, wind farms and the more people who understand what a SAR helo can do the better when the chips are down and there is a major emergency to deal with.
If all you want is to wait for tasking and then wonder why you don't get used more, then don't go to these exercises.
If you want to understand how the Gold and Silver system works and want them to understand SAR capabilities and limitations, ensure that your representative in the Silver/Gold setup has decent comms and can liaise properly with the other emergency services and realise what other capabilities exist among them then perhaps it might not be a bad idea to engage and attend.
At least 80% of UKSAR is overland where the MCA don't have primacy so perhaps that is where more effort needs to be expended by a new and professional SAR service - just putting a coastie with a radio near the Gold/Silver control probably won't be as effective
We have worked with Urban Sar teams, swift water rescue teams, wind farms and the more people who understand what a SAR helo can do the better when the chips are down and there is a major emergency to deal with.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Yes, yes and yes.
If all you want is to wait for tasking and then wonder why you don't get used more, then don't go to these exercises.
If you want to understand how the Gold and Silver system works and want them to understand SAR capabilities and limitations, ensure that your representative in the Silver/Gold setup has decent comms and can liaise properly with the other emergency services and realise what other capabilities exist among them then perhaps it might not be a bad idea to engage and attend.
At least 80% of UKSAR is overland ... .... ...
If all you want is to wait for tasking and then wonder why you don't get used more, then don't go to these exercises.
If you want to understand how the Gold and Silver system works and want them to understand SAR capabilities and limitations, ensure that your representative in the Silver/Gold setup has decent comms and can liaise properly with the other emergency services and realise what other capabilities exist among them then perhaps it might not be a bad idea to engage and attend.
At least 80% of UKSAR is overland ... .... ...
Originally Posted by [email protected]
... overland where the MCA don't have primacy ...
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I see Cobham (ex FBH) are recruiting for military experienced SAR instructors for their SAR school at RAF Valley. Are UK military folk still being trained in SAR despite no longer being involved in mainstream UK SAR or is this for other work? Guess it could be a good opportunity for those that didn't make the Bristow cut