single engine firefighting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Likes: 3
From: Iceland
when I actually looked better at video again and more on the droppings and missed spot's behind fire-line and more I have to agree with you Hueyracer, 
then again my point with the posting of it was more to show how quick smaller SE helicopters are in turnarounds.
He was also sometimes nearly in IMC there for few moments
then again my point with the posting of it was more to show how quick smaller SE helicopters are in turnarounds. He was also sometimes nearly in IMC there for few moments
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Cairns
The As350 is an awesome bucket machine when using the B1 and upwards or better yet the Super D2 for the hotter climates. The B3 is right up there for load and power but expensive. The video dose show a quick turn around but poor bucket control and the pilot looked rushed. The fire was upslope burning towards the houses but better to place each load on the head of the fire close to the houses and work (tag ) on for each drop. The video show sporadic flying with no real appreciation of fire control. Just increasing the relative humidity is some cases. Belly bucketing is a good option for grass fire as the down wash is minimal with those kinds of fwd air speeds used. He just needs to slow his frantic pace to steady accurate pace, putting the wet stuff on the red stuff on target on time every time. Fire fighting can be very rewarding and dangerous in the hands of an impetuous pilot. Slower is faster. From my perspective a 205 or 212 with a power fill and have 50 & 100 foot lines and use foam where the environment can stand it. If you put 3 mediums such as the UH1 h with fast fin and strake and van horn tail rotor blades on a fire like that its cleaned up in an hour or so unless the RH is below 12 if you have the right guys driving them that is. Keep the ball in the middle guys.
Joined: Jan 2004
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 239
Likes: 41
From: LIVT
Originally Posted by aegir
In Italy currently we use only AS350 series (and two EC135).
For big dropping we have Canadair and S64 of Civil Protection.
For big dropping we have Canadair and S64 of Civil Protection.
NH500D (license-built in Italy by BredaNardi) of the National Forestry Service
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...orestale_1.jpg
AB205 (license-built by Agusta) of the Army Aviation
SA-315 Lama
BR,
aerolearner
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Earth
how many liters can load an EC135, i.e. MSL?
Originally Posted by aerolearner
Single engine helicopters that are or, at least until very recently, were used for firefighting duties in Italy also include:
NH500D (license-built in Italy by BredaNardi) of the National Forestry Service
Single engine helicopters that are or, at least until very recently, were used for firefighting duties in Italy also include:
NH500D (license-built in Italy by BredaNardi) of the National Forestry Service
I forgot also the Lamas!!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: Aberdare, Wales
What do you think about this clip showing a Squirrel in Portugal?
The report says:
Video: Helicopter Pilot In Portugal Fills Fire Fighting Bucket At Pool
The report says:
A video posted to LiveLeak shows just that, apparently in Portugal. The pilot is seen swooping in over the pool to load up with some chlorinated water, dump said water over a nearby fire, and come back once again for another round. This is quite an impressive bit of flying, as the pool has several obstacles surrounding it which may result in a disastrous ending.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 368
Likes: 21
From: I am not sure where we are, but at least it is getting dark
The youtube comments are hilarious. "Greatest pilot in the world!!!" while the bucket is swinging around like a dog's tongue on a summer day...
Yeah, but he would have probably taken out the house with a longer line 
Too short a line too.....
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: Royal Leamington Spa
while the bucket is swinging around like a dog's tongue on a summer day...
Also, he nearly clipped the trees with the bucket on his way back in. Had the bucket become snared it could have been the end of his firefighting efforts for the day.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Would someone please share the reasons, pros and cons of using different length long lines for firefighting. Does it have to do with the type of fire, ie. grass fire vs a heavily wooded area, or is it based on water accessibility? Thanks for your help.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 189
From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Pros and cons of buckets on long lines...in no particular order:
Most of it comes down to personal preference, although depending upon terrain you could be forced to use a long line.
Grass fires tend to be easier to fight with the bucket on the belly hook because you can drop faster.
If the only place to dip is surrounded by trees then you have no choice but to put a long line on.
Downwash from the helicopter can fan the flames, so typically, the bigger the helicopter---the long line is preferred, especially on spot drops.
Some say that a line can slow you down, but in the hands of a good VR pilot I have not noticed that much difference.
Most of it comes down to personal preference, although depending upon terrain you could be forced to use a long line.
Grass fires tend to be easier to fight with the bucket on the belly hook because you can drop faster.
If the only place to dip is surrounded by trees then you have no choice but to put a long line on.
Downwash from the helicopter can fan the flames, so typically, the bigger the helicopter---the long line is preferred, especially on spot drops.
Some say that a line can slow you down, but in the hands of a good VR pilot I have not noticed that much difference.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
From: On the move...
And training? Everyone has commented on how this looks like a beginner, but how do you get experience, other than doing it? You can only train so much, then the deep end go.
From what I have seen in Australia, the process seems better with an Air Attack Supervisor calling the drops and everyone flying the same pattern, not like the guy in the vid, but does this system occur worldwide?
So training suggestions guys, how does one learn the best way to do this?
From what I have seen in Australia, the process seems better with an Air Attack Supervisor calling the drops and everyone flying the same pattern, not like the guy in the vid, but does this system occur worldwide?
So training suggestions guys, how does one learn the best way to do this?
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 189
From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Here in the US we also have air attack above the fire but he is controlling the overall strategy for that period.
As for training, you can do a baic long line training course and then get hired by a company that will bring you on and train on the job. The USFS allows companies to have an approved program for having a trainee "fire pilot" in the pilot seat and a "trainer" in the other seat---type 2 helos only. I have one of the approved training programs and have one for other pilots if they want to pay.
As for training, you can do a baic long line training course and then get hired by a company that will bring you on and train on the job. The USFS allows companies to have an approved program for having a trainee "fire pilot" in the pilot seat and a "trainer" in the other seat---type 2 helos only. I have one of the approved training programs and have one for other pilots if they want to pay.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Gordy, thanks for your response to my post and the info you provided. What company are you affiliated with? I'd like to check out your web site. What positions make up your ground crew ie. mechanic etc? Is that a viable option for someone who is interested in getting started in pursuing fire fighting, as a way to learn as much as possible, but isn't yet qualified for flight operations? Feel free to PM me if this isn't suitable for a response on the open forum. Thanks again.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
From: On the move...
Thanks Gordy.
I have zero time on fires, but from friends who have been, they state that flying the AAS is part of the learning curve. By observing the fire pilots routine/system they are gaining some knowledge.
No replacement for long line training, but good exposure to the environment.
Changes to legislation here as Part61 will require 5 hours dual fire training. Although you only need 200 hours total time under legislation to gain the new fire endorsement, most Gov contracts require 1500 hours.
I have zero time on fires, but from friends who have been, they state that flying the AAS is part of the learning curve. By observing the fire pilots routine/system they are gaining some knowledge.
No replacement for long line training, but good exposure to the environment.
Changes to legislation here as Part61 will require 5 hours dual fire training. Although you only need 200 hours total time under legislation to gain the new fire endorsement, most Gov contracts require 1500 hours.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Portugal
It's really strange reading all the comments here regarding some thoughts on the perceived experience of the pilot by watching a video.
Also, can all the firefighting pilots tell me 100% sure that their empty buck never swings? If you say yes, I'll say you are probably dreaming, since you don't watch your bucket 100% of the flying time.
I know the pilot on that video, and I can assure you he is not a rookie. But, then again, probably in some places you don't have the training you should have (talking without prove!), probably pilots should have a better training...
Maybe different zones requires different approach and thinking.
Have in mind the situation, fire close to houses, actually homes of someone. Also, this type of operation is normally coordinated with ground forces, and ground forces are the ones who request the drop (60% of the time).
Also, that camera should never be there, in the tail of the helicopter, that's a fact.
For disclosure, I am not a fire fighting helicopter nor do I have experience on it.
But I know, as a helicopter pilot, that is always easier to spot the bad piloting on others than on ourselves... You became a better helicopter pilot when you know what you do bad and try to correct it.
Cheers and fly safe.
Also, can all the firefighting pilots tell me 100% sure that their empty buck never swings? If you say yes, I'll say you are probably dreaming, since you don't watch your bucket 100% of the flying time.
I know the pilot on that video, and I can assure you he is not a rookie. But, then again, probably in some places you don't have the training you should have (talking without prove!), probably pilots should have a better training...
Maybe different zones requires different approach and thinking.
Have in mind the situation, fire close to houses, actually homes of someone. Also, this type of operation is normally coordinated with ground forces, and ground forces are the ones who request the drop (60% of the time).
Also, that camera should never be there, in the tail of the helicopter, that's a fact.
For disclosure, I am not a fire fighting helicopter nor do I have experience on it.
But I know, as a helicopter pilot, that is always easier to spot the bad piloting on others than on ourselves... You became a better helicopter pilot when you know what you do bad and try to correct it.
Cheers and fly safe.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 4
From: In the mountains
What is the best configuration (bucket vs tank)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmpf9gpVuA4
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
Depends upon what kind of Fire you are fighting and at what stage of the fire you are deployed.
You ever seen a for real Forest Fire when it is Crowning and really blowing up?
When that happens the biggest helicopter might as well be a guy with a Piss Pump(jargon for a hand pump back pack water apparatus) for what good you really do.:uhh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoth5rEJ9vE
You ever seen a for real Forest Fire when it is Crowning and really blowing up?
When that happens the biggest helicopter might as well be a guy with a Piss Pump(jargon for a hand pump back pack water apparatus) for what good you really do.:uhh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoth5rEJ9vE