How do you deal with customer pressure?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 118
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From: North America
How do you deal with customer pressure?
I guess this is one way.
Trying to achieve the balance between pleasing the customer (and keeping your job) and being safe is sometimes very difficult.
Unless there is a locked door between the passengers and the pilot there will be interaction (or even pressure) to fly / land / lift close to or beyond the edge.
Any tips from your experience?
Trying to achieve the balance between pleasing the customer (and keeping your job) and being safe is sometimes very difficult.
Unless there is a locked door between the passengers and the pilot there will be interaction (or even pressure) to fly / land / lift close to or beyond the edge.
Any tips from your experience?
Last edited by Decredenza; 20th July 2017 at 02:08. Reason: Photobucket fails
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
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From: USA
If you launched in error or experienced unforecast weather enroute, then turning around and going back is always a wise choice. Giving the customer options, we can do this, this or this while airborne, also keeps the heat off. If your customers are seasoned, experienced passengers then they are likely to understand and will put it down to calculated risk. The FAA want you to land anywhere safe or climb to a safe altitude if possible and call approach or 121.5. They would rather you were not a statistic so they have published this advice. If your turn around costs you your job, then so be it.
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Hassocks, Mid-Sussex
They would rather you were not a statistic so they have published this advice.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,103
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From: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Any tips from your experience?
"Thank you Captain, I am happy to be flying with you," and shook my hand.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,796
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From: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
You need a role model, someone who has developed a special relationship with his customers:
Meet Wisconsin's entrepreneur of the year
I/C
Apologies for the tangent...
Meet Wisconsin's entrepreneur of the year
I/C
Apologies for the tangent...
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,174
Likes: 7
From: UK
I told him that the other jet's Captain was not responsible for his life
When I used to fly offshore in the East China Sea I would look at a wall of cu-nimbs between us and and the coast and I used to say"bollocks to that until it clears up," and when the day was over my pax would always buy me a beer in the club."
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
There's Government Rules, Company Rules, and my Rules.
When all three are met....I go.
When they don't....I don't.
When I am comfortable with going, meaning all the rules are met, then I will go....and not until then.
The most important of my rules is that once I have made the decision not to go....thus using that horrible word "NO!"....until something significant changes that makes the original decision obsolete....the more pressure that is applied makes my response all the more firm and in time blunt.
No one is more concerned about my health, wealth, and well being than I am....and no one has as much interest in those things for me than I do.
If you are confronted with someone trying to force, urge, cajole, convince you to "GO"....point them to the aircraft, tell them the keys are in it, and tell tp tell you how it turned out when they get back.....then go back to drinking yer Tea.
If you are right....they will usually walk off. If they are wrong....they will usually show their Ass and then walk off mad.
Either way....you are the PIC and responsible for your passengers well being, your bosses Aircraft, and your own life. If yer Boss fires you....you should not have been working for the Prick anyway.
I have gotten Old by saying "NO! I never wanted for a Job....as I was right and the folks knew it....even if they never admitted it.
Don't know if that helped but that is an old Coot's views.
When all three are met....I go.
When they don't....I don't.
When I am comfortable with going, meaning all the rules are met, then I will go....and not until then.
The most important of my rules is that once I have made the decision not to go....thus using that horrible word "NO!"....until something significant changes that makes the original decision obsolete....the more pressure that is applied makes my response all the more firm and in time blunt.
No one is more concerned about my health, wealth, and well being than I am....and no one has as much interest in those things for me than I do.
If you are confronted with someone trying to force, urge, cajole, convince you to "GO"....point them to the aircraft, tell them the keys are in it, and tell tp tell you how it turned out when they get back.....then go back to drinking yer Tea.
If you are right....they will usually walk off. If they are wrong....they will usually show their Ass and then walk off mad.
Either way....you are the PIC and responsible for your passengers well being, your bosses Aircraft, and your own life. If yer Boss fires you....you should not have been working for the Prick anyway.
I have gotten Old by saying "NO! I never wanted for a Job....as I was right and the folks knew it....even if they never admitted it.
Don't know if that helped but that is an old Coot's views.
Last edited by SASless; 9th February 2013 at 21:23.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 1
From: North America
There are no old bold pilots.
The above responses have shown some very good decision making on the part of the contributors.
Have you ever had to deal with the subtle pressure of support of a safety decision from the higher ups and then less flying in the future because of it?
The above responses have shown some very good decision making on the part of the contributors.
Have you ever had to deal with the subtle pressure of support of a safety decision from the higher ups and then less flying in the future because of it?
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
Have you ever experienced the loss of flying an accident creates for you?
If your Safety Culture is such that Management punishes you for obeying their own Safety Rules....run away....run...run...run.
If your Safety Culture is such that Management punishes you for obeying their own Safety Rules....run away....run...run...run.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
I tell my passengers that I'm responsible both morally and in law for their safety (as well as my own) and that unfortunately sometimes the only safe option is not to take off in the first place.
Problem comes when they can find some other fool who is willing to say yes and risk everyone's safety, either out of commercial pressure or just inexperience/ignorance.
One thing's for certain though. After every accident you will find people taking very large steps backwards to avoid being implicated in any way.
Problem comes when they can find some other fool who is willing to say yes and risk everyone's safety, either out of commercial pressure or just inexperience/ignorance.
One thing's for certain though. After every accident you will find people taking very large steps backwards to avoid being implicated in any way.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 215
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From: Canada
There are all kinds out there.
One memorable one....had a customer who wanted a fairly basic survey/recce job in an R44. Summer, some altitude, neither of us is small, in an Alpha, and I was unwilling to put it into all the little holes he wanted. He started (with the blatant assumption I was another 100-hr pilot, ink still fresh, etc) telling me how his experience exceeded mine, I should learn to listen to him, that he needed to get it all done today, etc, etc, etc. I let him go on for a while then explained I was one of the company check and training pilots, was more than willing to call it a day if he even hinted at second guessing me again, and I would be on every charter he had with us in the future if this continued. After some discussion, we found some middle ground.
My point is, these guys are out there, they are ultimately paying the bills, and finding a way to deal with them is necessary.
One memorable one....had a customer who wanted a fairly basic survey/recce job in an R44. Summer, some altitude, neither of us is small, in an Alpha, and I was unwilling to put it into all the little holes he wanted. He started (with the blatant assumption I was another 100-hr pilot, ink still fresh, etc) telling me how his experience exceeded mine, I should learn to listen to him, that he needed to get it all done today, etc, etc, etc. I let him go on for a while then explained I was one of the company check and training pilots, was more than willing to call it a day if he even hinted at second guessing me again, and I would be on every charter he had with us in the future if this continued. After some discussion, we found some middle ground.
My point is, these guys are out there, they are ultimately paying the bills, and finding a way to deal with them is necessary.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 219
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From: South of 60
When I first started out in this business, oh so many moons ago, I realised very quickly how some customers would attempt to pressure me into things that just did not sound like such a good idea. The wx was clearly sh!tty, both me and the customer knew before hitting the start button the chances of completing the sortie were less than 50/50.
After a while, I worked it out that if I told the customer BEFORE we launched I still expected him to sign the flight report after we got back, mission completed or not, that I was happy to at least give it a try. At that point I usually found myself having time to enjoy another cuppa java until the wx improved.
After a while, I worked it out that if I told the customer BEFORE we launched I still expected him to sign the flight report after we got back, mission completed or not, that I was happy to at least give it a try. At that point I usually found myself having time to enjoy another cuppa java until the wx improved.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,957
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From: Australia
The worst the company can do to you if you refuse a flight/return due to wx, is to fire you.
Back in the good ol' days we had many mining clients who knew we had newbies, but trained to a standard, we called survey standard. . The orders would come down from the boss Geo with whom we spoke, who were excellent people, what was going to happen and how the field team were to look after the pilots and help them. I remember many of them with great fondness, one in particular from Rio Tinto in Brisbane.
Nowadays of course Geo's are a dime a dozen who as the thread shows, may expect lots with little sympathy.
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
No good unless the company supports you
A degree of caution made me very thorough with the preflight and manning up, despite repeated hurry ups: basically there was no way I was going to hot load pax from an overnight flight. Sure enough, one was so tired and emotional that his mates were carrying him across to the Wessex, and after some discussion he was left behind to sober up. Remember, the driver in the Wessex sat up in splendid isolation from the talking ballast downstairs: unable to control anyone who may decide that a visit to the door at 4,00ft over the Timor Sea would be a good idea to offload the effects of overnight drinking, with a possible triple somersault on the way down after falling out. This was single pilot with two hot refuels outbound, again on the rig, then a further refuel home all in 35C or higher with the pax wandering around while you pumped fuel and moved drums!
You would expect proper support for a safety decision from such an esteemed company as Bristow operating for Woodside: right? 9 hours later I had hardly shut down when summoned to ring the manager in Perth in order to be measured for a new one: upsetting the client, how dare you jumped up Poms come here with such ideas and attitudes, etc. Safety? Rubbish, no one has ever refused a passenger before.
It was a pleasure to take a job offer from Okanagan and fly with one of the best Chief Pilots I have ever known, Dave Whyte. Total support for the crews and a thoroughly professional outlook on aviation, one of the good guys. Even if he was a Kiwi
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 419
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From: uk
'Swinging the lamp' from my Army days, the Generals ADC (captain) wants to know why I'm calling to cancel as the general can't be expected to be driven 4 hours to his meeting. I gave him the odds...50% out of limits at take off time....30% getting a few miles along track and having to turn back...10% chance of getting there and 10% chance of killing all of us, ask the general if he's willing to die today rather than take the car?
