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Inadvertent IMC question

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Inadvertent IMC question

Old 4th Jun 2018, 17:06
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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In the early days of Air Mail flying in the USA...and for the Luftwaffe during the latter part of the Second World War....Fixed Wing Pilots were taught to "spin" their aircraft down to VMC conditions.

That must have been a thrill ride!
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Old 4th Jun 2018, 17:08
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OvertHawk View Post
I'm waiting for Chopjock to suggest Vortext Ring as his preferred safe method for exiting IIMC
I learned from previous threads that it is much safer to fly IIMC in a helicopter with two engines!

Cheers SLB
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Old 4th Jun 2018, 19:33
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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I would set his Attitude Indicator Five Degrees Wing Low to one side or the other.
I used to do both AIs, leaving them power setting, ASI, compass and VSI/Altimeter to sort themselves out.
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Old 4th Jun 2018, 21:12
  #104 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Shy,

How does the work level and stress level change when your Electronic Co-Pilot decides to go on strike mid-flight and you have to hand pole the old girl?

Ever happen AND you get a change of route, a wind shift alters your planned approach, etc?

Ever simply drop your Pencil just as you are being given a new clearance and it safely lands down in the chin bubble?

Every have the Approach Plate Book fall from your fumbling fingers and land again...safely in the Chin Bubble?

Single Pilot IFR can get interesting
You mean along with the (hopefully) spurious engine or gearbox chip lights coming on over the hills because it's raining again? Yes, it can. But I have a plan... never use a pencil in case the lead breaks.
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Old 4th Jun 2018, 22:28
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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One we determined they were flying the AI and not all the instruments....we covered up all the AI's and went Instrument flying.

In my US Army Instrument Rating course...we wound doing a fixed card NDB approach in a UH-1 Huey....with No Gyro's. Mag Compass and Bearing Pointer....after doing a Hold.

That was rather entertaining.....and sure cure for boredom.
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Old 5th Jun 2018, 09:14
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Self loading bear View Post


I learned from previous threads that it is much safer to fly IIMC in a helicopter with two engines!

Cheers SLB
Go careful with that theory, there are plenty of twin engine, floppy stick, VFR only helicopters out there, flown by VFR only pilots. a multitude of engines helps you feel safe, all the IFR kit and a qualified pilot should make you nice and warm and fuzzy.

SND
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Old 5th Jun 2018, 10:30
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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SelfloadingBear: Are you for real?
WTF does the number of engines have to do with IIMC?
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Old 5th Jun 2018, 10:32
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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We have been told over and over how unsafe two engines are vice a single....remember!

SLB is referring to a Forum Expert on such matters I believe!
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Old 5th Jun 2018, 10:51
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Many years ago in the military, I did a tour on the SeaKing simulator for my sins (between jobs). I was teaching a weeks worth of sorties for the FGN (German seaking pilots).
I distinclty recall watching them man up prior to start and the Captain hooked his dog tags over the E3C compass binnacle protruding from the centre screen above their heads.
I asked why?
He told me this story:
Several years earlier, the same two guys were doing an IF training mission near their base and were around 7000' in complete IMC.
They were old hands and knew the seaking inside out including its handling characteristics.
They were hit by lightning and lost ALL electrics. The only 'flying' instrument they had going for them was the standby AI which ran off the battery bus.They also lost auto pilot.
Their crash cards stated that flying off battery only - gave you around 20 minutes max before everything failed (electrically).
They immediately began a controlled descent to VMC - no instruments (except standby AI) and no radios.
During their descent, they lost the battery - so now they had NO electronic instruments, no radio AND no intercom.
Flying any a/c without any AI is nigh on impossible.
So the pilot took his dog tags off and hung them from the compass binnacle and used the "cup in bowl" compass as a very rough AI (spirit level) and used the dog tags as a fine tune AI.
If the tags leant right they would compensate and so on.
It meant they didn't exceed Vmax, or Vmin and they didn't exceed AoB and stayed relatively 'upright' until they broke cloud and landed.
How's that for improvisation!

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Old 5th Jun 2018, 15:29
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thomas coupling View Post
How's that for improvisation!
Pretty stupid, IMHO:


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Old 5th Jun 2018, 16:42
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Get it out of trim....and less than one "G" and see what happens!
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Old 5th Jun 2018, 18:34
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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It was a Sea King remember - it loves to be flown like that
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Old 5th Jun 2018, 18:53
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Get it out of trim....and less than one "G" and see what happens!
or more than one g and you are always upright!
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 12:31
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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or more than one g and you are always upright!
or in a spiral dive?
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 13:47
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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In the meanwhile the Altimeter, VSI,Airspeed, and Compass indications are what....???

As one poster said of the Dog Tag concept....pure bunk...really?

Absent the Dog Tags....I knew that as "Partial Panel" or as some would call it...."Emergency Panel".
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 14:42
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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In the meanwhile the Altimeter, VSI,Airspeed, and Compass indications are what....???
If you are not trained in instrument flight? All lies !!
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 16:08
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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You might be lying to yourself...but the instruments are just set there doing their job.
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 16:49
  #118 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
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They'd have been better off with a cat and a duck.... (old story warning)
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 19:09
  #119 (permalink)  
LRP
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
They'd have been better off with a cat and a duck.... (old story warning)
Just make sure you have a clean cat. I'm told the very first Lomcovak was performed by a pilot attempting to fly IMC with a dirty cat.
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 23:55
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
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If I may,
Having instructed new pilots to gain a CPL license i always commented to the TC office that the hood time was ludicrous!
With 30 plus years behind me and after 12 VFR and 18 plus IFR I quiver when I read about Indaverent IMC. Brrrr
Been in the sht a couple times at night over the chuk (same as IMC) when someting went sideways with the AP. Fortunately some hard leatned lessons and a good guy next to me we kept it together and calm.
The chances are not slim to none if you survive inadvertent ... there is no chance. Before you hit something hard the airframe is probably go to tear itself to pieces anyway ..... stress from your overcontrolling (stop to stop quickly).
I had a IR rating for many years before actually "using it" in a controlled two crew enviroment. During a long haul over water flight i pushed it a little to far and ALMOST got stuck between layers.... by gods grace when i looked over my shoulder i saw horizon. Scard - you have no idea - i was driving a IF equip ac but it had no stab. I surived for one reason....luck!
i have lost to many friends to whiteout over ice and snow when they were not actually IMC do to the fact they may have forgotten how too scan. Two were students of mine. I live with that.
just a sidenote... before the aircraft comes apart you will more then likely have come apart yourself shock caused by fear, muscle constrintion and irrational thought process will get you!
short story.... go IMC with no training... you have 32 seconds to say goodbye!
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