Whirlwind thread perhaps like the Wessex
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Whirlwind thread perhaps like the Wessex
I'm wondering if there should be a thread on here on par with the Wessex on here but for the Whirlwind, if it was much loved as the Wessex?
Cheers
Cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 20th Nov 2012 at 09:24.
The Whirlwing pilots are starting to die off.
Twin engined, double this, double that; the old Whirwind with one of everything managed to keep us upright just as well as the Wessex did. There was nothing like the trust you had in your Whirlwind in Borneo compared to the Wessex. Our Squadron in 1966 was mostly first tourists straight out of FTS, sent out over the jungle on their own and we did not have a single accident all year.
Two of the Navy's darlings found it a bit hard going so I was sent out to Sepulot in my Whirwind to do all their tasking for them.
Twin engined, double this, double that; the old Whirwind with one of everything managed to keep us upright just as well as the Wessex did. There was nothing like the trust you had in your Whirlwind in Borneo compared to the Wessex. Our Squadron in 1966 was mostly first tourists straight out of FTS, sent out over the jungle on their own and we did not have a single accident all year.
Two of the Navy's darlings found it a bit hard going so I was sent out to Sepulot in my Whirwind to do all their tasking for them.
Avoid imitations
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I hope I'm not starting to die off..... 
Mind you, I only flew them after they were relegated to wearing training command colours and not long before they were finally consigned to the scrap heap.
A good old bus, underpowered but very forgiving for students, despite it's relatively large size making it an unusual choice for a training machine.
Computer out on a single turbine - certainly made one concentrate on the job in hand, especially during live wet winching at Valley during the SARTS course.
Mind you, I only flew them after they were relegated to wearing training command colours and not long before they were finally consigned to the scrap heap.
A good old bus, underpowered but very forgiving for students, despite it's relatively large size making it an unusual choice for a training machine.
Computer out on a single turbine - certainly made one concentrate on the job in hand, especially during live wet winching at Valley during the SARTS course.
Ahhh, the wonderful Whirlwind!
Evidently, I was a late starter in 1975 as an RAF mechanic at Tern Hill & Shawbury. I enjoyed 4 years of them, including bits at the forerunner to Valley's SARTU, before going on my Fitters Course.
Evidently, I was a late starter in 1975 as an RAF mechanic at Tern Hill & Shawbury. I enjoyed 4 years of them, including bits at the forerunner to Valley's SARTU, before going on my Fitters Course.
Wot? The Whirlwind underpowered? The Gnome engined Mk 9 or 10 was a dream compared to the earlier heavy Lycoming (corrected below!) piston engined version. I seem to remember reading here about Dave Baston's joy when the Culdrose SAR Mk 7s were replaced by the Mk 9s.
Last edited by 76fan; 21st Nov 2012 at 09:46. Reason: Typing error
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What version was that then? The only ones I flew were the suck-squeeze-bang-blow versions - the HAR 3 with the Wright Cyclone R-1300 and the HAS 7 with the Leonides Major 155.
Last edited by CharlieOneSix; 20th Nov 2012 at 19:27.
Sorry CharlieOneSix, old age you know ... I did mean to write "Leonides", fourteen cylinders wasn't it ?... a great old lady to fly as a trainer but I am glad I didn't have to fly it operationally.
Still find it surprising that basic rotary students were allowed to do solo EOLs in the Whirlwind towards the end of their course. Probably more nerve wracking for the QHI in the tower watching than for the student! I did once have to call a halt before the stood had completed his 4 landings for fear the nose oleos would get broken off.
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76fan - same as you, only flew it as a training aircraft. I still remember how incredibly stupid I used to feel trying to start the Mk7 on solo details on cold February mornings. Having fired cartridge after cartridge and probably only got about 5 of the 14 cylinders to fire the instructor then sauntered over from the crewroom and got all of them to catch on his first attempt. Infuriating!
Edit - re EOL's, I seem to recall (correct me if I'm wrong please, it's a long time ago) that on the Mk3 the only way you could do a practice EOL was to shut the engine off completely otherwise even with the throttle completely closed it would power up when you raised the collective. As a basic stood a Mk3 EOL was obviously only done with a QHI, never solo!
Edit - re EOL's, I seem to recall (correct me if I'm wrong please, it's a long time ago) that on the Mk3 the only way you could do a practice EOL was to shut the engine off completely otherwise even with the throttle completely closed it would power up when you raised the collective. As a basic stood a Mk3 EOL was obviously only done with a QHI, never solo!
Last edited by CharlieOneSix; 21st Nov 2012 at 10:18.
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C16
You're right the Mk 3 had to shut the engine down for eols unlike the Mk 7. In 705 students never did solo eols in any helicopter in my time.
I had great fun flying the Mk 7 in Borneo & once you were used to the cartridge starter, it was no problem. Even doing anti sub work at Portland was fun & had enough power. Strangely in Borneo we could generally carry more pax than the more powerful Mk 10 but look who was flying those!
In 250 hours the dear old 7 never let me down but of course no comparison to the Wessex 5.
I'm sure David ( not Dave!) BastOn will make some comments when he reads this!!
You're right the Mk 3 had to shut the engine down for eols unlike the Mk 7. In 705 students never did solo eols in any helicopter in my time.
I had great fun flying the Mk 7 in Borneo & once you were used to the cartridge starter, it was no problem. Even doing anti sub work at Portland was fun & had enough power. Strangely in Borneo we could generally carry more pax than the more powerful Mk 10 but look who was flying those!
In 250 hours the dear old 7 never let me down but of course no comparison to the Wessex 5.
I'm sure David ( not Dave!) BastOn will make some comments when he reads this!!
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I only flew the turbine Mk10 at Ternhill - the engine was at idle for the EOL, and there was no link to the collective in that version
However, one certain course colleague of mine flew with a certain French exchange QHI who didn't like flying "fuel computer in", allegedly because of his previous background flying early Allouettes, which didn't have one. Much of his hard working studes' flying was done in manual throttle (not the normal way on the RAF course).
On the day in question, my colleague was working hard as usual, flying in manual throttle. He was then directed to carry out an EOL at Tern Hill, which was entered without putting the computer back in (again not the normal thing to do).
After landing, and a quick debrief, the stude was told to get airborne and do another EOL. The engine was still in manual at ground idle (not the normal configuration). A little confused by now, he opened the throttle which instantly surged the engine, causing a ten foot long flame to exit the exhaust. Engine change time!
That occurred just before lunch. By mid afternoon the same day we were directed to sign as acknowledgement of a new flying order, which prohibited EOLs in manual throttle.....
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The Whirlwind HAS Mk. 7
(To the tune of Men of Harlech)Every Ocean on this plannit
Has a WHIRLWIND in it,
Only takes just half a minnit,
In we go again.
We dunked our balls in ocean water,
ALVIS thought we didn’t oughter
So they made the engines falter,
In we go again.
Curses on this aircraft
The makers they were so daft,
Hover trials
For hours and hours,
But still the engine faltered.
Engine ancient,
So outdated,
Round the wrong way it rotated
Oil feeds they were quite negated
Let us try again.
At times we floated around and wondered,
Who the bloody hell had blundered
Soaking wet we cursed and chundered,
Here we ditch again.
Sitting in our dinghies retching
From here the Planeguard looks quite fetching,
Now he’s ditched, it must be cetching.
Here we go again.
Boost is slowly dropping,
Clammy brow needs mopping,
In we go,
And head to toe
The water’s all round us slopping.
Clothes are dripping,
Sharks are sniffing,
In my dinghy, trousers whiffing,
Give me back my dear old GANNET
To fly me safe again.
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Never flew the Whirlwind but have fond memories of "borrowing" the back seat cushion of a Whirlwind in for maintenance. They made great seat cushions for the 212.
Last edited by js0987; 21st Nov 2012 at 13:21.
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The Whirlwind HAS Mk. 7
(The A25 version – sung to the melody of Wilkins and his Dinah)
We flew the Mk.7, a chopper brand new,
It floated much better than it ever flew,
And it floated very badly and quickly did sink
When the engine packed up and you dropped in the drink.
Chorus:
Thank the Lord I’m alive
But I’ve still got to fill out my A25.
Westlands said the Mk.7 was the best that they had,
A right load of bollocks it was all rather sad,
The drawback it had as a flying machine.
Was it thought it was a really good submarine.
Chorus:
If you fly the Mk.7 one thing you don’t do,
Is hover o’er water or you’re in the poo,
The best cure for this problem that we’ve ever tried
Is only to hover at very low tide.
Chorus:
A look at the programme could make you feel blue
If you were down to fly Three Zero Two,
This bright shiny airplane so neat and so trim
Just wanted to go for a refreshing swim.
Chorus:
Now just off Gibraltar young Frank Simpkin’s crew
Prepared to go dunking the ball, just as you do.
When the throttle jammed up, and the stick went all slack,
“Hey, it’s bloody wet in here!” cried a voice from the back.
Chorus:
And then to old Singapore we drew near,
Chunky Allen thought he had nothing to fear,
But Three Zero Two thought in that tropical heat
The crew could just do with a’ paddling their feet.
Chorus:
And when we got airborne we couldn’t fly for long
With too much Avgas on things quickly went wrong
With the wind down the flight deck a take-off’s no bother
But when dunking our balls, well we just couldn’t hover.
Chorus:
The problem with so little fuel in the tank
Was that the fuel gauges were also damned dank.
As 824 Squadron found to their cost
The engine’d go quiet and the chopper was lost.
Chorus:
With much modification the engine was cursed
But it didn’t get better it only got worse.
With blue, red and yellow spots the engine was seen,
To show just how far modified it had been.
Chorus:
And so hover trials we did day after day,
It got pretty boring is the best I can say,
But sixty percent of Mark Seven’s were lost
To the bottom of the sea at extremely great cost.
Chorus:
The end of this story of things that have been
They retired what was left of this sad old machine.
And so came in the new Wessex Mark One
And flying a chopper once more became fun.
Chorus:
Thank the Lord I’ve retired
And I don’t have to fill in an A25.
(The A25 version – sung to the melody of Wilkins and his Dinah)
We flew the Mk.7, a chopper brand new,
It floated much better than it ever flew,
And it floated very badly and quickly did sink
When the engine packed up and you dropped in the drink.
Chorus:
Thank the Lord I’m alive
But I’ve still got to fill out my A25.
Westlands said the Mk.7 was the best that they had,
A right load of bollocks it was all rather sad,
The drawback it had as a flying machine.
Was it thought it was a really good submarine.
Chorus:
If you fly the Mk.7 one thing you don’t do,
Is hover o’er water or you’re in the poo,
The best cure for this problem that we’ve ever tried
Is only to hover at very low tide.
Chorus:
A look at the programme could make you feel blue
If you were down to fly Three Zero Two,
This bright shiny airplane so neat and so trim
Just wanted to go for a refreshing swim.
Chorus:
Now just off Gibraltar young Frank Simpkin’s crew
Prepared to go dunking the ball, just as you do.
When the throttle jammed up, and the stick went all slack,
“Hey, it’s bloody wet in here!” cried a voice from the back.
Chorus:
And then to old Singapore we drew near,
Chunky Allen thought he had nothing to fear,
But Three Zero Two thought in that tropical heat
The crew could just do with a’ paddling their feet.
Chorus:
And when we got airborne we couldn’t fly for long
With too much Avgas on things quickly went wrong
With the wind down the flight deck a take-off’s no bother
But when dunking our balls, well we just couldn’t hover.
Chorus:
The problem with so little fuel in the tank
Was that the fuel gauges were also damned dank.
As 824 Squadron found to their cost
The engine’d go quiet and the chopper was lost.
Chorus:
With much modification the engine was cursed
But it didn’t get better it only got worse.
With blue, red and yellow spots the engine was seen,
To show just how far modified it had been.
Chorus:
And so hover trials we did day after day,
It got pretty boring is the best I can say,
But sixty percent of Mark Seven’s were lost
To the bottom of the sea at extremely great cost.
Chorus:
The end of this story of things that have been
They retired what was left of this sad old machine.
And so came in the new Wessex Mark One
And flying a chopper once more became fun.
Chorus:
Thank the Lord I’ve retired
And I don’t have to fill in an A25.
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I flew Whirlwinds for 48 years, 1960-2008, 10's in the RAF, Srs 3 with Bristows and ex military 7, 10's and 12 in civilian hands. l would be flying the last one still but it is mothballed for financial reasons. A friendly old beast and the easiest engine-offer on the planet. However they were also frustrating to fly operationally being burdened with massive amounts of service gear and mods that limited payload to an embarrassing degree on occasions.
The 7's Leonides Major engine was never originally designed to run continuously at 2800-2900 revs and the max boost required in the hover to the detriment of its reliability. The Gnome engine was a bit too delicate for the rough and tumble of sand, salt and FOD that went up the intake, causing the well known compressor stalls (I had two). The engine computor signalling circuits suffered from damp and corrosion that mucked up the signals, all leading to poor serviceability. The 9's, 10's and 12's would have been more capable if Westlands hadn't been constrained to use the existing gearbox and driveline for cost reasons and all the Westland models were about 400 lb heavier than the original Sikorsky S55's when they redesigned them. The cockpit seats were an ergonomic disaster and I still have the back pain to remind me, but I would get back in and fly one like a shot given the opportunity. So much for nostalgia
The 7's Leonides Major engine was never originally designed to run continuously at 2800-2900 revs and the max boost required in the hover to the detriment of its reliability. The Gnome engine was a bit too delicate for the rough and tumble of sand, salt and FOD that went up the intake, causing the well known compressor stalls (I had two). The engine computor signalling circuits suffered from damp and corrosion that mucked up the signals, all leading to poor serviceability. The 9's, 10's and 12's would have been more capable if Westlands hadn't been constrained to use the existing gearbox and driveline for cost reasons and all the Westland models were about 400 lb heavier than the original Sikorsky S55's when they redesigned them. The cockpit seats were an ergonomic disaster and I still have the back pain to remind me, but I would get back in and fly one like a shot given the opportunity. So much for nostalgia
payload to an embarrassing degree on occasions.