R-22 Rescues Model P-51 from Trees
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TTB,
R/T Ticket? I need a license ?
Next you'll be telling me I need a license to fly a helicopter !
And then you'll be telling me I have to re-validate it every year.
Well I'm not that fick !
Joel
R/T Ticket? I need a license ?
Next you'll be telling me I need a license to fly a helicopter !
And then you'll be telling me I have to re-validate it every year.
Well I'm not that fick !
Joel
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This guy must have never heard of the avoid curve.
Would have been much safer if he had the student reach for the plane as he does a flyby at 60 kts.
Brilliant video.
Would have been a great advertisement for his school if he stuck his name and contact details on it. Almost 1.5 million views on youtube.
God Bless America
Would have been much safer if he had the student reach for the plane as he does a flyby at 60 kts.
Brilliant video.
Would have been a great advertisement for his school if he stuck his name and contact details on it. Almost 1.5 million views on youtube.
God Bless America
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All good...this guy knows what he's doing....notice he was talking through every thing as he was doing it...making sure his tail rotor was clear and was handling the R22 very well.
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This is a very disturbing statement made by paddy.pilot. Mate if you've got no idea.....please refrain from making comment.
"""This guy must have never heard of the avoid curve.
Would have been much safer if he had the student reach for the plane as he does a flyby at 60 kts.
"""
"""This guy must have never heard of the avoid curve.
Would have been much safer if he had the student reach for the plane as he does a flyby at 60 kts.
"""
Last edited by Ag-Rotor; 10th Nov 2012 at 01:59.
So it's just me that thinks the guy is a complete moron - no consideration for risk vs reward - but it doesn't matter because it looks cool!!!
The accident investigation would have made a good read had he managed to catch the main or tail rotor or had the engine stop!
It is one thing carrying out valuable training ie operating in and out of confined areas but putting the aircraft (and a fee-paying student) into a highly risky situation just to rescue a fricking model aircraft
And if the way he did it is considered professional then you need to take a long hard look at how you conduct yourself in a helicopter.
Some people have to spend their working lives in the avoid curve - this moron didn't.
The accident investigation would have made a good read had he managed to catch the main or tail rotor or had the engine stop!
It is one thing carrying out valuable training ie operating in and out of confined areas but putting the aircraft (and a fee-paying student) into a highly risky situation just to rescue a fricking model aircraft
And if the way he did it is considered professional then you need to take a long hard look at how you conduct yourself in a helicopter.
Some people have to spend their working lives in the avoid curve - this moron didn't.
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Not sure I follow your logic. I may have mis-read you but I am hearing "stay out of the avoid curve unless the risk / reward balance makes it worth putting your life on the line."
So if he did a 20/20 over trees and a verticle landing at a confined site to go for lunch that would have been OK? Why, because "dinner" is more important than helping someone else? Or are you saying never take a single into a vertical arrival / departure unless lives are at stake?
Anyone in a single spends a proportion of their time in the avoid curve, or only flys from sites large enough to take a STOL fix-wing (which is far cheaper). I recently came in over a similar sized tree line to verticle into a lawn at a hotel just to attend a wedding - 3-up in an EC120. I should not have used my helicopter for that flight?
If it is OK to be in the avoid curve for other than life-saving reasons then surely we ought to be considering that given what he intended to do, did he minimise risks so far as possible?
Would I have done that - no. I am not confident enough in my skills.
Do I think he did it in a way that minimised the risks - yes.
So if he did a 20/20 over trees and a verticle landing at a confined site to go for lunch that would have been OK? Why, because "dinner" is more important than helping someone else? Or are you saying never take a single into a vertical arrival / departure unless lives are at stake?
Anyone in a single spends a proportion of their time in the avoid curve, or only flys from sites large enough to take a STOL fix-wing (which is far cheaper). I recently came in over a similar sized tree line to verticle into a lawn at a hotel just to attend a wedding - 3-up in an EC120. I should not have used my helicopter for that flight?
If it is OK to be in the avoid curve for other than life-saving reasons then surely we ought to be considering that given what he intended to do, did he minimise risks so far as possible?
Would I have done that - no. I am not confident enough in my skills.
Do I think he did it in a way that minimised the risks - yes.
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I'm not surprised by the mixed reaction. It perhaps would have been a good idea to do some form of recce of the site, even just an orbit, talked through with mention of wind direction, hazards, best approach direction etc if he wanted the student to take away any benefit from it, it would have taken all of 2 minutes, but been a MUCH more useful lesson. I think the lack of the above gives the idea to the student that you can just bomb in there without having taken any precaution. He surely did evaluate these things, but didn't make it clear to the student that he had made any airmanship decisions prior to approaching sending in my opinion the entirely wrong message to the student. It's quite funny though to watch 
Last edited by Aucky; 10th Nov 2012 at 09:19.
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60 kt flyby
Correct misterbonkers, completely tongue in cheek, ref: UK CAA Prosecutions thread.
I'm slightly worried though that someone thought that what I was saying was a possible suggestion...
I'm slightly worried though that someone thought that what I was saying was a possible suggestion...
John R81 - No, I am saying that making an approach to land is one thing - there is always an element of risk involved but the techniques taught (even HOGE and vertical descent) try to minimise that risk by reducing exposure time.
Hovering in a position where pretty much any failure is going to end up hurting you (nose in to trees and not above a clear area) just to recover a model is just crass.
As Aucky rightly said, there is no briefing or acknowledgement of the risks involved (probably because he wouldn't have been able to justify his actions if he had actually thought about it) he just booms on in there in an effort to impress his student and curry favour with the owner of the model.
Let's not even think about what would have happened if the model had flicked up into the disc as the downwash caught it, or who cleared any of the model flyers into or out of the disc on the ground - the whole thing was amateurish and he can count himself very lucky that he didn't f**k it up ( luck not skill involved there).
If that is what you want to do with a helicopter then fine, crack on, but don't expect any sympathy when you are the subject of a fatal accident enquiry - just consider what would have been said on this forum if it had gone wrong, I don't think it would have been 'Oh he died having fun in his helicopter' or 'what a skilful pilot, he was so unlucky'.
Hovering in a position where pretty much any failure is going to end up hurting you (nose in to trees and not above a clear area) just to recover a model is just crass.
As Aucky rightly said, there is no briefing or acknowledgement of the risks involved (probably because he wouldn't have been able to justify his actions if he had actually thought about it) he just booms on in there in an effort to impress his student and curry favour with the owner of the model.
Let's not even think about what would have happened if the model had flicked up into the disc as the downwash caught it, or who cleared any of the model flyers into or out of the disc on the ground - the whole thing was amateurish and he can count himself very lucky that he didn't f**k it up ( luck not skill involved there).
If that is what you want to do with a helicopter then fine, crack on, but don't expect any sympathy when you are the subject of a fatal accident enquiry - just consider what would have been said on this forum if it had gone wrong, I don't think it would have been 'Oh he died having fun in his helicopter' or 'what a skilful pilot, he was so unlucky'.
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I wonder (not very much, actually) how different the tone of this thread would be if any one of a number of events had occurred during that extraordinary display of cowboy showing off.
Demonstrating to a stude that extemporising a completely unbriefed and un-assessed procedure on the spur of the moment is anything other than foolish - life and limb excluded, and a toy aeroplane, even if it is a P51(Wow!) is not that.
Didn't hear a syllable of a brief, mention of wind, obstructions, power margin - I could go on. Just, "You grab the wing" as we go into a free air hover in a treetop, take our straps off and lean out the door
Sticking the skids right into a tree? Catch a branch and try a dynamic rollover at 80ft? 2 dead for a toy. Foolhardy in the extreme.
No mention of the effect of downdraft on the model. What if it got picked up - it is an aerodynamic thing - and went through the rotor? A totally unpredictable scenario - that alone should have been enough to put them off.
Ditto on the ground though consequences less serious.
Allowing strangers to wander uncontrolled under the disk, and apparently unconcerned about it.
"Do we have permission to land?" Of course! Not.
"Those guys are f*****g trippin". Who exactly was tripping I wonder? One huge foolish, ill thought out ego trip imho. How many counts of reckless endangerment there I wonder? Several.
What was the instructor's name? Mitty, W?
Instructor? Doing that on a lesson? Sheet! There may well be cultural differences in the way helos are operated from one place to another but I watched that vid in total disbelief. In the UK I think he'd be savagely prosecuted on several counts for that, and rightly so imho.
Demonstrating to a stude that extemporising a completely unbriefed and un-assessed procedure on the spur of the moment is anything other than foolish - life and limb excluded, and a toy aeroplane, even if it is a P51(Wow!) is not that.
Didn't hear a syllable of a brief, mention of wind, obstructions, power margin - I could go on. Just, "You grab the wing" as we go into a free air hover in a treetop, take our straps off and lean out the door
Sticking the skids right into a tree? Catch a branch and try a dynamic rollover at 80ft? 2 dead for a toy. Foolhardy in the extreme.
No mention of the effect of downdraft on the model. What if it got picked up - it is an aerodynamic thing - and went through the rotor? A totally unpredictable scenario - that alone should have been enough to put them off.
Ditto on the ground though consequences less serious.
Allowing strangers to wander uncontrolled under the disk, and apparently unconcerned about it.
"Do we have permission to land?" Of course! Not.
"Those guys are f*****g trippin". Who exactly was tripping I wonder? One huge foolish, ill thought out ego trip imho. How many counts of reckless endangerment there I wonder? Several.
What was the instructor's name? Mitty, W?
Instructor? Doing that on a lesson? Sheet! There may well be cultural differences in the way helos are operated from one place to another but I watched that vid in total disbelief. In the UK I think he'd be savagely prosecuted on several counts for that, and rightly so imho.
Crapinson Flimsicopter
That's about the most greatest Robo rescue (on a lucky day) 👎⚡👎
Don't go back, we'll be right away, for the next report on the Robo as she throws a delaminated blade landing to an inferno that engulfs the.......
Good flying but hmmmm airmanship well it was a fvrescue & the job got done no probs Hmmmm & then doing this for a toy ??? "stupid is what stupid does" imagine the ole Student wanting a refund on that deviation of his lesson plan for what......what You ask .........RISK Vs REWARD "stupid is what stupid dies"
Happy Landings Always
VF
Don't go back, we'll be right away, for the next report on the Robo as she throws a delaminated blade landing to an inferno that engulfs the.......
Good flying but hmmmm airmanship
well it was a fvrescue & the job got done no probs Hmmmm & then doing this for a toy ??? "stupid is what stupid does" imagine the ole Student wanting a refund on that deviation of his lesson plan for what......what You ask .........RISK Vs REWARD "stupid is what stupid dies"Happy Landings Always
VF
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 12th Nov 2012 at 01:55.
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Why would the student be looking for a refund ?? some of the learning he got here allbeit unconventional would have been invaluble. The instructor pilot was involving him in the task asking him to look out the back making sure the tail rotor was clear, instructions and decission making process during this manover were clear and precise. If the rescue was of a person stranded in a tree in a flooded river you would be applauding his skill and effort.
How does a helicopter pilot develope his or her skills if every thing is by the book, no flying insde the envelope unless approach and departure, allways worried the engine might stop at an inconvenient moment. If that is the mind set no one should fly a helicopter. I fly helicopters because I can hover and I can do all the things an Aeroplane can't
How does a helicopter pilot develope his or her skills if every thing is by the book, no flying insde the envelope unless approach and departure, allways worried the engine might stop at an inconvenient moment. If that is the mind set no one should fly a helicopter. I fly helicopters because I can hover and I can do all the things an Aeroplane can't
Ag-rotor - the point here is that the guy had no plan B - he had not even considered how he might have achieved the aim with less exposure.
You can learn the same skills using a 10' high bush planted on a flat area - the difference is that if the engine quits you will probably walk away from the ensuing arrival at the ground.
The student could have learned how to check the tail clearance in a 5' hover in a confined area.
You seem to want danger rather than learn skill - the skill in being a helicopter pilot comes from minimising that danger, not going out looking for it.
You can learn the same skills using a 10' high bush planted on a flat area - the difference is that if the engine quits you will probably walk away from the ensuing arrival at the ground.
The student could have learned how to check the tail clearance in a 5' hover in a confined area.
You seem to want danger rather than learn skill - the skill in being a helicopter pilot comes from minimising that danger, not going out looking for it.