EC list for grounding aircraft
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
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From: In the mountains
EC list for grounding aircraft
Does Eurocopter produce a list of faults or failures that would require grounding an aircraft?
One can only get so much info out of an engineer pressured by an operation wanting their machines to keep flying...
One can only get so much info out of an engineer pressured by an operation wanting their machines to keep flying...
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 4
From: In the mountains
I'm already signed up and have the MMEL... but I am looking for something dealing with mechanics and not so much equipment... i.e accumulators not pressurised, fuel pump faulty etc
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 368
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From: I am not sure where we are, but at least it is getting dark
I may be pointing out the obvious here, but the engineer should have just as much interest in keeping the aircraft safe as you do, office chair or not.
If you suspect that this isn't the case, I'd suggest to talk to him, management, or to find a new job. Rather than trying to second guess someone who most likely knows a lot more about the machine than you do.
If you suspect that this isn't the case, I'd suggest to talk to him, management, or to find a new job. Rather than trying to second guess someone who most likely knows a lot more about the machine than you do.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
The MMEL allows you to operate with some things inoperative, that otherwise could impact on the airworthiness of the aircraft. Anything not mentioned in the MMEL that affects the airworthiness of the aircraft (ie part of the certification) or that is required by Operational regulations, must be serviceable. That just leaves non mandatory optional equipment and stuff not affecting the airworthiness of the aircraft such as cosmetic or comfort items which could be U/S without being specifically mentioned in the MMEL.
Certainly accumulators and fuel pumps must be servicable unless allowed in the MMEL, same for anything else to do with engines, flight controls, rotors, transmission etc
Certainly accumulators and fuel pumps must be servicable unless allowed in the MMEL, same for anything else to do with engines, flight controls, rotors, transmission etc
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
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From: UK
In my book HC has it right:
If it is not working/defective you are grounded, unless:
your MEL allows it, but you must comply with the conditions;
it is something that you do not need for airworthiness (e.g. the drinks cooler)
There seems to be a story behind what you are saying, although you don't give much detail.
Remember, you are required to record a defect in the techlog, if you find one. That might make an engineer's attitude a little different because he/she then needs to commit himself in writing. But do keep talking to them: engineers have a lot to give us.
The type of things you mention are relevant to airworthiness,and if they are not in the MEL, it is a defect and you are grounded (IMO).
If it is not working/defective you are grounded, unless:
your MEL allows it, but you must comply with the conditions;
it is something that you do not need for airworthiness (e.g. the drinks cooler)
There seems to be a story behind what you are saying, although you don't give much detail.
Remember, you are required to record a defect in the techlog, if you find one. That might make an engineer's attitude a little different because he/she then needs to commit himself in writing. But do keep talking to them: engineers have a lot to give us.
The type of things you mention are relevant to airworthiness,and if they are not in the MEL, it is a defect and you are grounded (IMO).
Last edited by Helinut; 13th October 2012 at 19:11.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 4
From: In the mountains
It has always been a grey area with no definate black & white document that I know of... We put all our trust in the engineers and believe what they tell us.
I am 2 days flight away from our engineers so I'd like to know where the line is. The examples I gave - actuators depleting... do I ground the a/c and wait 2 days for someone to come replenish a little or do I wait till it is really needed...if so, how much is enough to stop. Fuel pump 2 is blown on an AS350B2 with 2 pumps... I can still fly with one... just examples of mechanical snags I've had in the past.
I am 2 days flight away from our engineers so I'd like to know where the line is. The examples I gave - actuators depleting... do I ground the a/c and wait 2 days for someone to come replenish a little or do I wait till it is really needed...if so, how much is enough to stop. Fuel pump 2 is blown on an AS350B2 with 2 pumps... I can still fly with one... just examples of mechanical snags I've had in the past.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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From: Tokyo
Redundancy in helicopter systems is to bring you safe to the landing spot while failure occurs airborne, not to allow you to take off... Unless it is, as already said, in the MEL or an option that is not included in the type certificate you fly.
Last is the fact that any equipment not serviceable shall be mentioned in the logbook and shall get an appropriate answer before next flight...
My 2 cents from engineer background
Cheers
Kami
Last is the fact that any equipment not serviceable shall be mentioned in the logbook and shall get an appropriate answer before next flight...
My 2 cents from engineer background
Cheers
Kami
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
From: UK
2 uncomfortable moments for a pilot to consider:
1. When the second pump fails during a marginal weather flight as it is getting dark;
2. When at the Public Inquiry/Interview with no tea and biscuits you have to explain why you went flying with a known defect.
Get it in writing if someone says it does not matter that something is not working. That way your widow can know who to sue.......................
1. When the second pump fails during a marginal weather flight as it is getting dark;
2. When at the Public Inquiry/Interview with no tea and biscuits you have to explain why you went flying with a known defect.
Get it in writing if someone says it does not matter that something is not working. That way your widow can know who to sue.......................
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 4
From: In the mountains
Get it in writing if someone says it does not matter that something is not working. That way your widow can know who to sue.......................
From a previous company I will never work for again, I was told EC had given us the go ahead on a damaged rotor blade... When we asked for the confirmation in writing we were told that it would be sent. Needless to say, it never came........and that was the last job I did for the company!!!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 430
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From: South East Asia
Oh dear, once again we have some confusion between an MMEL and an MEL. For the purpose of this question the correct document to refer to is the MEL (if required by your local airworthiness authority) and allocated to the specific aircraft in question and identified by the serial number and/or registration.
