CAA UK prosecutions
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
DB - as I am sure you know, I don't have to operate to JAROps 3 or any other public transport legislation because I am a military pilot - therefore the silly rules and regs (I refer you to the first 2 pages of this thread) impact operators like NigelH and Dennis Kenyon who clearly have some specific issues with current legislation.
We have more than enough silly rules and regs in the military without me needing to know chapter and verse of the civilian rules (although I am an ATPLH holder I took air law 20 years ago and haven't need to use it since).
I may have been slightly sweeping in my generalisation about legislation but even you must admit, many of the rules are written in such a non-user-friendly fashion (I know it is for the legal eagles) that it is a wonder that anyone manages to comply at all.
There - just to show I am human as well
We have more than enough silly rules and regs in the military without me needing to know chapter and verse of the civilian rules (although I am an ATPLH holder I took air law 20 years ago and haven't need to use it since).
I may have been slightly sweeping in my generalisation about legislation but even you must admit, many of the rules are written in such a non-user-friendly fashion (I know it is for the legal eagles) that it is a wonder that anyone manages to comply at all.
There - just to show I am human as well
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 2
From: UKdom
Damn, wish I'd used bigger expired type in the example instead!
I didn't bother renewing it in the end - was only going to do it so I could keep it on my EASA licence but then there wouldn't be enough space to reval everything each year anyway - I'd be getting the CAA to send me a new bit of paper every 6-9 months and given their 6 week turn around that would screw things work wise! So I've successfully managed to reduce it to 12months! Another bonkers example of rules and regs - there are not enough boxes for revals/renewals so you are potentially without a type until the CAA can send you a new one - and their argument of the open counter service is ridiculous and unpractical for most.
I didn't bother renewing it in the end - was only going to do it so I could keep it on my EASA licence but then there wouldn't be enough space to reval everything each year anyway - I'd be getting the CAA to send me a new bit of paper every 6-9 months and given their 6 week turn around that would screw things work wise! So I've successfully managed to reduce it to 12months! Another bonkers example of rules and regs - there are not enough boxes for revals/renewals so you are potentially without a type until the CAA can send you a new one - and their argument of the open counter service is ridiculous and unpractical for most.
Last edited by misterbonkers; 16th November 2012 at 09:10.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,303
Likes: 23
From: UK and MALTA
CRAB - I am truly astounded by your revelation that you are only involved in Military flying and yet seem so intent on telling the rest of us that the rules are rubbish (or some of them). I want you to consider, just for a moment, the effect your previous comments have on the less, lets say, experienced, aviators who may read this thread.
In addition, consider how the likes of JimL, who has been instrumental in steering UK Legislation in the right direction in the midst of the confusion of conflicts that arose for JAR and EASA, views your childish statements.
Finnaly, consider Misterbonkers poor attitude towards the requirement to meet minimum hours to renew a type rating. Without rules what do you think he would do, left to his own devices. Is his attitude, freely expressed on this thread, the result of your poor example??
NigelH's poor perception of PC3 and his apparent inability to recognise risk let alone appropriate it to the task in hand just makes me sad...really.
The test here is really simple. Of you all, the only man I would trust to fly my family in JimL simply because his attitude towards rules and regs, despite his tenacous fight to make them workable and pragmatic, is the correct one.
If you have influence over others your have responsibility to meet. Think on CRAB!!!
In addition, consider how the likes of JimL, who has been instrumental in steering UK Legislation in the right direction in the midst of the confusion of conflicts that arose for JAR and EASA, views your childish statements.
Finnaly, consider Misterbonkers poor attitude towards the requirement to meet minimum hours to renew a type rating. Without rules what do you think he would do, left to his own devices. Is his attitude, freely expressed on this thread, the result of your poor example??
NigelH's poor perception of PC3 and his apparent inability to recognise risk let alone appropriate it to the task in hand just makes me sad...really.
The test here is really simple. Of you all, the only man I would trust to fly my family in JimL simply because his attitude towards rules and regs, despite his tenacous fight to make them workable and pragmatic, is the correct one.
If you have influence over others your have responsibility to meet. Think on CRAB!!!
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Very pompous and very pious DB - you are clearly the sort of man who shouldn't be flying other people around because when the situation arises (and it surely can) that is outside the rule-book, you will have nowhere to turn.
Maybe that is why you are not still a military pilot and I am - because there has to be a recognition that rules are for guidance not mindless obedience.
I do respect JimL's work - he has given me a lot of information on all sorts of topics where my lack of civilian experience has left gaps in my understanding.
I though I had offered an amicable end to this dispute but you are clearly too dense to recognise it as you are too smugly sat on your moral high ground.
Maybe that is why you are not still a military pilot and I am - because there has to be a recognition that rules are for guidance not mindless obedience.
I do respect JimL's work - he has given me a lot of information on all sorts of topics where my lack of civilian experience has left gaps in my understanding.
I though I had offered an amicable end to this dispute but you are clearly too dense to recognise it as you are too smugly sat on your moral high ground.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 2
From: UKdom
DB - re-read what I wrote.
If I had chosen to renew my R22 on the 16th September all I would have needed to do was 2hrs plus LPC. I have 600hrs on the R22, fly quite a few types (including the R44 - 1000+hrs) AND I'm an FE & TRE.
Yet come the 17th it's changed to a full Type Rating Course.
I do believe it is a daft rule. I'm entitled to believe that. It's my opinion. IT DOES NOT MEAN I won't adhere to it or other rules for that matter. Without discussion on the rules and our opinions towards them we cannot get to a point where the rules might be changed (as you so suggested).
Working multi-crew offshore in the UK I truly hope that your CRM is genuinely better than the manner in which you conduct yourself on this forum because sir, it's attitudes like yours that have led to accidents. Kegworth
If I had chosen to renew my R22 on the 16th September all I would have needed to do was 2hrs plus LPC. I have 600hrs on the R22, fly quite a few types (including the R44 - 1000+hrs) AND I'm an FE & TRE.
Yet come the 17th it's changed to a full Type Rating Course.
I do believe it is a daft rule. I'm entitled to believe that. It's my opinion. IT DOES NOT MEAN I won't adhere to it or other rules for that matter. Without discussion on the rules and our opinions towards them we cannot get to a point where the rules might be changed (as you so suggested).
Working multi-crew offshore in the UK I truly hope that your CRM is genuinely better than the manner in which you conduct yourself on this forum because sir, it's attitudes like yours that have led to accidents. Kegworth
Last edited by misterbonkers; 18th November 2012 at 21:13. Reason: spellin n gramr
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,111
Likes: 118
DB
Perhaps i have lost the plot following these posts. Can you tell me then should or should I not be teaching vertical landings in single engine helicopters ie entering the avoid curve. A simple yes or no will do
Should i be teaching vor tracking to PPLH's (dispite over 90% of vfr helicopter 's not even having one fitted) again yes or no
Should i be teaching the use of satnav (fitted in over 90% of vfr helicopters )again yes or no
Have a nice evening
Perhaps i have lost the plot following these posts. Can you tell me then should or should I not be teaching vertical landings in single engine helicopters ie entering the avoid curve. A simple yes or no will do
Should i be teaching vor tracking to PPLH's (dispite over 90% of vfr helicopter 's not even having one fitted) again yes or no
Should i be teaching the use of satnav (fitted in over 90% of vfr helicopters )again yes or no
Have a nice evening
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 0
From: Cornwall
Rules .....
...yes they provide an essential framework within which we attempt to survive but I cannot say I was best please to have my ATPL(H) renewal returned with a note saying that I did not include a certification of my English proficiency. It obviously does not count that I have held a UK & JAA ATPL for 37 years the last version of which included the statement 'ENGLISH' on it.
G.
G.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,303
Likes: 23
From: UK and MALTA
CRAB - I may be popous and pious but I DO NOT pass opinions on subjects I know little about, such as JSP-318, having left that world behind a while ago. Unlike you, who has not even entered the civilian world yet but feels comfortable making daft statements.
Its crap spouted without thought that makes PPRUNE so much less than it can be.
This thread started as a CAA bashing session simply because they try to enforce the rules. If you hold a professional licence you are compelled to uphold the rules AND fully support those who follow them. Thats not pious or pompous. Its the law!!!
Rules apply to eveyone, equally. Thats why we all have to have a competence in the English Language, regadless of where we live, got born or indeed the language we speak.
DB
Its crap spouted without thought that makes PPRUNE so much less than it can be.
This thread started as a CAA bashing session simply because they try to enforce the rules. If you hold a professional licence you are compelled to uphold the rules AND fully support those who follow them. Thats not pious or pompous. Its the law!!!
Rules apply to eveyone, equally. Thats why we all have to have a competence in the English Language, regadless of where we live, got born or indeed the language we speak.
DB
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
CRAB - I may be popous and pious but I DO NOT pass opinions on subjects I know little about
You seem so busy slagging me off because you object to my viewpoint - which I am perfectly entitled to hold - that you ignore that there are those who find the CAA frustrating and overcomplicated to deal with.
Are you really telling me that there are absolutely no rules or regulations that you are not happy with or that could be improved?
Joined: Aug 2008
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 298
Likes: 29
From: KOLM and KBVS
Originally Posted by DOUBLE BOGEY
If you hold a professional licence you are compelled to uphold the rules AND fully support those who follow them.
Joined: Mar 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 659
Likes: 13
From: Under my coconut tree
HEMS
DB,
3-5 Hems missions a day? I would be interested to know which county unit that was in
I flew the first AA in the Uk back in the late 80's early 90's and apart from summer madness, we rarely flew more than 2 missions a day.
3-5 Hems missions a day? I would be interested to know which county unit that was in
I flew the first AA in the Uk back in the late 80's early 90's and apart from summer madness, we rarely flew more than 2 missions a day.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: Ross-on-Wye
RULES ... Sorry now LAWS !
Oh dear ... this is really becoming fun. EASA, HV curves, VOR tracking ... need I go on. But just to say the January issue of FLYER contains a report following interviews with a selection of AOC, RTFs and ATO holders and hopefully a balanced CAA response. READ ALL ABOUT IT! Dennis K.
PS. The Spanish air-ferry ended with an unserviceable ship prior to departure. So a nogo - nosho. AND both self and co-pilot managed to get robbed of £2k by police impersonators at Madrid Airport. READ ALL ABOUT THIS TOO!
PS. The Spanish air-ferry ended with an unserviceable ship prior to departure. So a nogo - nosho. AND both self and co-pilot managed to get robbed of £2k by police impersonators at Madrid Airport. READ ALL ABOUT THIS TOO!