AB206 with B parts in NZ?
Thread Starter
AB206 with B parts in NZ?
Hi - wonder if any maintenance expert in NZ could opine on this?
For example, Oceania have a delightful and no doubt superbly maintained old but low time ex Austrian mil AB206A for sale for less than the price of a R44. According to the component sheets it has been spruced up with a number of B parts including main blades etc. (There's also an Kiowa for sale in Aus even cheaper).
As has been discussed extensively, some jurisdictions don't allow this, and this could lead to the ship being grounded. Is that the case in NZ?
If this is ok in NZ, it would still make the machine hard to export, but could also mean that there are plenty of cheap 'untouchable' mixed parts machines around the world that could be quite happily working in NZ.
Oh, any probs with parts for C18?
I wonder?
For example, Oceania have a delightful and no doubt superbly maintained old but low time ex Austrian mil AB206A for sale for less than the price of a R44. According to the component sheets it has been spruced up with a number of B parts including main blades etc. (There's also an Kiowa for sale in Aus even cheaper).
As has been discussed extensively, some jurisdictions don't allow this, and this could lead to the ship being grounded. Is that the case in NZ?
If this is ok in NZ, it would still make the machine hard to export, but could also mean that there are plenty of cheap 'untouchable' mixed parts machines around the world that could be quite happily working in NZ.
Oh, any probs with parts for C18?
I wonder?
KJ,
Read the Type Acceptance Report by the NZ CAA TAR 96/13 – Revision 1 Agusta-Bell AB 206 Series.
And also Agusta Westland IL AB206-06-004 Interchangeability of Agusta Bell and Bell Helicopter Parts
Also you may want to read NZ CAA Advisory Circular AC-001 Acceptability of Parts
I would think you should talk to the NZ CAA Aviation Safety Adviser (Maintenance North Island) for a definitive answer.
Appreciate that there are numerous licence built types flying in NZ and Australia.
Kawasaki BK's, Kawasaki Hughes so there is precedence.
Let us know what they say.
C-18's are probably getting a little difficult but not impossible.
As they say
Read the Type Acceptance Report by the NZ CAA TAR 96/13 – Revision 1 Agusta-Bell AB 206 Series.
And also Agusta Westland IL AB206-06-004 Interchangeability of Agusta Bell and Bell Helicopter Parts
Original Bell Helicopters components are therefore applicable to Agusta-Bell products when
supplied or authorized by Agusta only
supplied or authorized by Agusta only
On the other hand Agusta produced parts share no FAA or MOT certification privilege with
Bell furnished parts. Bell Helicopter Textron, for the specific purpose of complying with the
U.S. and Canadian law, do not authorise Agusta components to be installed on U.S. or
Canadian Type certificated and registered products, even though the part numbers are the
same.
For the same reason, Agusta components cannot be installed on BHT aircraft registered
into the EASA Countries, being Agusta not listed as a Bell Helicopter Textron supplier.
For helicopters not under the authority of FAA; MOT or EASA, the Operators shall follow
the policy defined by the Civil Aviation Authorities having jurisdiction on the aircraft and
over the area of operations.
Bell furnished parts. Bell Helicopter Textron, for the specific purpose of complying with the
U.S. and Canadian law, do not authorise Agusta components to be installed on U.S. or
Canadian Type certificated and registered products, even though the part numbers are the
same.
For the same reason, Agusta components cannot be installed on BHT aircraft registered
into the EASA Countries, being Agusta not listed as a Bell Helicopter Textron supplier.
For helicopters not under the authority of FAA; MOT or EASA, the Operators shall follow
the policy defined by the Civil Aviation Authorities having jurisdiction on the aircraft and
over the area of operations.
I would think you should talk to the NZ CAA Aviation Safety Adviser (Maintenance North Island) for a definitive answer.
Appreciate that there are numerous licence built types flying in NZ and Australia.
Kawasaki BK's, Kawasaki Hughes so there is precedence.
Let us know what they say.
C-18's are probably getting a little difficult but not impossible.
As they say
"Cheaper, Faster, Better - pick 2"
Last edited by RVDT; 20th Aug 2012 at 08:05.
I bought 5 AB 206,s and container loads of unused parts incl dozens of engines , both C 20 and C 18 . All i can say is i would stay away from the whole AB /Bell fiasco as you will only be driven mad by red tape .
I did quite well and sold all the helicopters but i eventually sold off all the parts and C 18 engines for pennies just to get rid of them . Strangely they went to America , where they cant be used !!
I did quite well and sold all the helicopters but i eventually sold off all the parts and C 18 engines for pennies just to get rid of them . Strangely they went to America , where they cant be used !!
Thread Starter
RVDT - great info, thanks. I think I know enough for now without breaking cover and talking to real people at CAA.
Interestingly the NZ CAA type acceptance for AB206A was obtained for the aircraft for sale that I mentioned - I didn't realise that it's the first and only one in the country.
In general it does look like the NZ CAA has taken a pragmatic and practical approach which is refreshing.
Cheers
KJ
Interestingly the NZ CAA type acceptance for AB206A was obtained for the aircraft for sale that I mentioned - I didn't realise that it's the first and only one in the country.
In general it does look like the NZ CAA has taken a pragmatic and practical approach which is refreshing.
Cheers
KJ
Strangely they went to America , where they cant be used !!
So not strange at all.
AB206A
Hi K-J,
Oceania in Auckland were tasked with getting the AB206A onto the NZCAA register. It was a first of type for NZ and the aircraft came from use in the Swiss military as an IFR/VFR training platform. From the onset it was apparent that the helicopter was (and is) in great condition - no oil canning of the fuselage, straight lines, sits proud on the skids and all the components and interior was in great shape for the age. It was a akin to finding that classic motorcycle that was parked up in the barn with only 1000kms on it and forgotten about...
The import onto the NZ CAA register wasn't a major issue due the fact that the aircraft had a civilian data plate from Agusta Bell. The NZCAA performed their usual import process and despite the aircraft having flown in the Military they found the components had full traceability, the military tracking system was applicable, the maintenance had conformed to the AB Maintenance Manual and the aircraft operated in accordance with the flight manual.
Additionally, two sister ships are flying in Australia without issue. The only disclaimer would be if you planned to sell it into North America in the future or if you sell it into another country without the type on the register. In that situation a first of type inspection would need to be executed.
The C18 is readily available and our turbine shop here can fully overhaul. I came across a supply of C18 engines sitting around in Australia the other day that are surplus to requirement... so no issues there.
It's a very nice helicopter and perfect for a private owner. The low skids make it slippery and the component times offer years of trouble free flying. You can't go past a Bell for casual flying - there is only one calendar lifed item and no 12yr! Anyone is welcome to call and chat to me about it. Call Oceania Aviation and ask for Steve.
Oceania in Auckland were tasked with getting the AB206A onto the NZCAA register. It was a first of type for NZ and the aircraft came from use in the Swiss military as an IFR/VFR training platform. From the onset it was apparent that the helicopter was (and is) in great condition - no oil canning of the fuselage, straight lines, sits proud on the skids and all the components and interior was in great shape for the age. It was a akin to finding that classic motorcycle that was parked up in the barn with only 1000kms on it and forgotten about...
The import onto the NZ CAA register wasn't a major issue due the fact that the aircraft had a civilian data plate from Agusta Bell. The NZCAA performed their usual import process and despite the aircraft having flown in the Military they found the components had full traceability, the military tracking system was applicable, the maintenance had conformed to the AB Maintenance Manual and the aircraft operated in accordance with the flight manual.
Additionally, two sister ships are flying in Australia without issue. The only disclaimer would be if you planned to sell it into North America in the future or if you sell it into another country without the type on the register. In that situation a first of type inspection would need to be executed.
The C18 is readily available and our turbine shop here can fully overhaul. I came across a supply of C18 engines sitting around in Australia the other day that are surplus to requirement... so no issues there.
It's a very nice helicopter and perfect for a private owner. The low skids make it slippery and the component times offer years of trouble free flying. You can't go past a Bell for casual flying - there is only one calendar lifed item and no 12yr! Anyone is welcome to call and chat to me about it. Call Oceania Aviation and ask for Steve.
Thread Starter
Thanks very much for the back story, Steve. It certainly looks like a peach and I like the original livery being retained. Those orange seat cushions could do with a bit of work though!
There have been/are AB206's on the NZ register before. This one is only the first A model.
Sorry, will never happen due to TC from Agusta not being accepted or applied for by the manufacturer
due to licencing agreements.
There are about 15 AB206's in Aus which have been operated for years and there are a couple of AB 412's there as well.
The point of K-J's question was NZ CAA policy to address Bollettino Tecnico AB206-06-004 Interchangeability of Agusta Bell
and Bell Helicopter Parts and the statement - For helicopters not under the authority of FAA; MOT or EASA, the Operators shall follow
the policy defined by the Civil Aviation Authorities having jurisdiction on the aircraft and over the area of operations.
No doubt the aircraft as a private machine has a lot going for it.
Low fuel burn over a B
Normally light and fast especially with low gear and a lot smoother.
No start cycle counts although a lower TBO yet if you take a 20/20B with a HSI thrown in there probably isnt a huge difference.
In the temperate climate in NZ temps would not be a big issue. There is a fallacy that a 20 runs cooler than an 18. They run pretty much the same except the limits are lower down the dial on an 18 so it "looks" hotter.
One thing I would check is that the MAX N1 stop is set correctly! One day you might need it!
I have operated a machine not unlike this on fixed bags at up to 45C. We probably could have sold the torquemeter as it was never an issue but it did the job fine.
Ditch the orange seats though - what were they thinking? Some sort of search and rescue aid?
planned to sell it into North America in the future
In that situation a first of type inspection would need to be executed.
due to licencing agreements.
There are about 15 AB206's in Aus which have been operated for years and there are a couple of AB 412's there as well.
The point of K-J's question was NZ CAA policy to address Bollettino Tecnico AB206-06-004 Interchangeability of Agusta Bell
and Bell Helicopter Parts and the statement - For helicopters not under the authority of FAA; MOT or EASA, the Operators shall follow
the policy defined by the Civil Aviation Authorities having jurisdiction on the aircraft and over the area of operations.
No doubt the aircraft as a private machine has a lot going for it.
Low fuel burn over a B
Normally light and fast especially with low gear and a lot smoother.
No start cycle counts although a lower TBO yet if you take a 20/20B with a HSI thrown in there probably isnt a huge difference.
In the temperate climate in NZ temps would not be a big issue. There is a fallacy that a 20 runs cooler than an 18. They run pretty much the same except the limits are lower down the dial on an 18 so it "looks" hotter.
One thing I would check is that the MAX N1 stop is set correctly! One day you might need it!
I have operated a machine not unlike this on fixed bags at up to 45C. We probably could have sold the torquemeter as it was never an issue but it did the job fine.
Ditch the orange seats though - what were they thinking? Some sort of search and rescue aid?
