FI's looking for work.
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FI's looking for work.
Just looking into doing my FI add on in the UK but beforehand I was hoping to get an idea of how many FI's are out there looking for work.
If we can stay UK based that would be preferable.
There is no point in doing it if there are plenty of instructors looking for work and with the demise of some schools and the economic down turn I am fearful that this is the case.
Over to you and many thanks for your replies.
If we can stay UK based that would be preferable.
There is no point in doing it if there are plenty of instructors looking for work and with the demise of some schools and the economic down turn I am fearful that this is the case.
Over to you and many thanks for your replies.
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Also, from what I'm told/written in PMs, the 'restriction' is also limiting factor in mainly weekend part time heli FI gigs in the UK.
It looks like the heli vs planks FI gigs are inversely correlated with regards to North/South of UK geographical differences.
It looks like the heli vs planks FI gigs are inversely correlated with regards to North/South of UK geographical differences.
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JW,
I think the question is a bit ambiguous and also I'd not expect that many FI's to advertise their non-employment here.
Also what is unemployed? I know a number of instructors that pick up pieces of work here and there on weekends, but have other jobs to pay their bills. Are they unemployed or under-employed?
I've also known a number of instructors that are employed, but don't earn enough to take home a living wage.
Getting back to your first question, I'd guess there's quite a number - but I doubt they're gonna want to shout about it.
FB.
I think the question is a bit ambiguous and also I'd not expect that many FI's to advertise their non-employment here.
Also what is unemployed? I know a number of instructors that pick up pieces of work here and there on weekends, but have other jobs to pay their bills. Are they unemployed or under-employed?
I've also known a number of instructors that are employed, but don't earn enough to take home a living wage.
Getting back to your first question, I'd guess there's quite a number - but I doubt they're gonna want to shout about it.
FB.
Last edited by firebird_uk; 13th Aug 2012 at 09:33. Reason: Typo
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If you try and do a cost/benefit analysis of "is it a good idea to spend all this money to be a pilot" then the answer will generally be no, as the figures just dont stack up and many people fall by the wayside.
On the other hand in my experience the people who plug away and are persistent generally make it, it's not a career for people who are not giving 100%
Becoming an instructor first is the low risk option to becoming a pilot in the UK, you should pick up work if you make yourself available. So I also think you are asking the wrong question, you should be asking "how much risk am I prepared to take" and if the answer is "not much" then give up now.
On the other hand in my experience the people who plug away and are persistent generally make it, it's not a career for people who are not giving 100%
Becoming an instructor first is the low risk option to becoming a pilot in the UK, you should pick up work if you make yourself available. So I also think you are asking the wrong question, you should be asking "how much risk am I prepared to take" and if the answer is "not much" then give up now.
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I was talking to a chap about the same thing last week, and my opinion is that the majority of instructors directly employed by a company is very few indeed, maybe possibly at most 3. The rest will be contractors / free lancers, self employed. The question which I was asked was " when do you know you can give up your job, and fly full time ".
The answer as camp freddie pointed out is that many of these guys still hold onto there jobs to maintain a stable income for house and family. My answer is that you know when you can transition over is when you can no longer turn up for work at your normal job, yet be prepared for a pay cut.
some guys can transition after a year, some 3 years , others never because they have a wealthy partner and just play at it.
The trouble is know flying school will particularly tell you the truth about the work they are doing, the guys who are fully employed will get the majority of the work and the freelance guy will pick up the crumbs, until one day they offer you an employed position because another person is leaving.
At this time most employed single engine robbie instructors will be getting paid about 3000 pounds before tax a month, and these people are few and far between. The rest self employed lot will probably do the above for 4 months of the year and gradually slow down to 1000 pounds before tax in the bad months of winter.
lifestyle change not a money maker.
fluffy
The answer as camp freddie pointed out is that many of these guys still hold onto there jobs to maintain a stable income for house and family. My answer is that you know when you can transition over is when you can no longer turn up for work at your normal job, yet be prepared for a pay cut.
some guys can transition after a year, some 3 years , others never because they have a wealthy partner and just play at it.
The trouble is know flying school will particularly tell you the truth about the work they are doing, the guys who are fully employed will get the majority of the work and the freelance guy will pick up the crumbs, until one day they offer you an employed position because another person is leaving.
At this time most employed single engine robbie instructors will be getting paid about 3000 pounds before tax a month, and these people are few and far between. The rest self employed lot will probably do the above for 4 months of the year and gradually slow down to 1000 pounds before tax in the bad months of winter.
lifestyle change not a money maker.
fluffy
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Jon,
It may not be clear from your OP what information you really need. The information you say you want might be different from the information you really need. The majority of FIs working at flying schools are self-employed freelancers. As such, they are all always looking for work.
Your typical UK hele flying school tries to transfer much of the risk to other people. So they lease in aircraft and use S/E freelance instructors. They expect the instructors to do a lot of the marketing too.[This is not a pop at schools - it is just a recognition of the reality of trying to break even in this business].
Any new FI will have to work hard for every hour of paid flying. As others have said, the only way that normally financed people can earn a living is by sharing FI work with another source of income.That other source will have to be flexible, to allow you to take up any offer of instruction, whenever and wherever it comes from.
It may not be clear from your OP what information you really need. The information you say you want might be different from the information you really need. The majority of FIs working at flying schools are self-employed freelancers. As such, they are all always looking for work.
Your typical UK hele flying school tries to transfer much of the risk to other people. So they lease in aircraft and use S/E freelance instructors. They expect the instructors to do a lot of the marketing too.[This is not a pop at schools - it is just a recognition of the reality of trying to break even in this business].
Any new FI will have to work hard for every hour of paid flying. As others have said, the only way that normally financed people can earn a living is by sharing FI work with another source of income.That other source will have to be flexible, to allow you to take up any offer of instruction, whenever and wherever it comes from.
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Most employed SE robbie instructors, not freelancers. Our on in some companies about 3000 pounds before tax, ............BUT THESE ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.
Bond co pilots are not employed instructors that have been in the industry for many years.
Fluffy
Bond co pilots are not employed instructors that have been in the industry for many years.
Fluffy
FI Rating
The FI rating is a good apprenticeship.
Yep it surely is a tough end of the industry to work in and I do not blame anyone for not wanting to do it especially if they believe there is very little monetary reward as they would be right.
It does serve however to be a good grounding for the future whatever you go on to do commercially. It could be worth the price tag for that alone.
Those lucky enough not to have had to endure this rung of the ladder will never fully understand the mental torture that instructors have to go through.
Even if you don't plan to make instructing your future I do think there are merits to this approach even if it's short term. It may be another wad of cash you have to front up but hey this is aviation. Get used to it!
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Interestingly enough I know of one FI job going in the South part of the country.
Yep it surely is a tough end of the industry to work in and I do not blame anyone for not wanting to do it especially if they believe there is very little monetary reward as they would be right.
It does serve however to be a good grounding for the future whatever you go on to do commercially. It could be worth the price tag for that alone.
Those lucky enough not to have had to endure this rung of the ladder will never fully understand the mental torture that instructors have to go through.
Even if you don't plan to make instructing your future I do think there are merits to this approach even if it's short term. It may be another wad of cash you have to front up but hey this is aviation. Get used to it!
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Interestingly enough I know of one FI job going in the South part of the country.
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At this time most employed single engine robbie instructors will be getting paid about 3000 pounds before tax a month, and these people are few and far between. The rest self employed lot will probably do the above for 4 months of the year and gradually slow down to 1000 pounds before tax in the bad months of winter.
fluffy
fluffy
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Hi everyone,
I finally got my CPL this summer & was planning to do my FI next spring; thought it would be the best way to break into the industry (albeit tough) & start out. I wasn't really too fussed to dive straight into the off-shore side, despite lucrative pay etc and can't afford the IR anyway...... however......... EVERYONE I've spoken with (off-shore guys & on-shore freelance FI) have said "IR IR IR. Do the IR"... "we're aaaaall dooooooooooomed"... the only people flogging the FI are the FTOs who want my money.
It's so bleak I almost want to self-harm. Seriously though, if FI work is non-existent, yet on the other hand CHC (as the current example) are looking for 500hrs for a co-pilot role and "Type Ratied on a heavy helicopter for example Super Puma L2/S92 " (though no mention of the IR in the ad... interesting)... WTF?!?!?! Will someone please enlighten me as to how the hell a wannabee gets into this industry? I've had my eyes-wide-open from day one... but all this doom & gloom is getting the better of me; is FI really no longer the way to go? Is the only hope the IR route? Please tell me this isn't the case?!??!
I finally got my CPL this summer & was planning to do my FI next spring; thought it would be the best way to break into the industry (albeit tough) & start out. I wasn't really too fussed to dive straight into the off-shore side, despite lucrative pay etc and can't afford the IR anyway...... however......... EVERYONE I've spoken with (off-shore guys & on-shore freelance FI) have said "IR IR IR. Do the IR"... "we're aaaaall dooooooooooomed"... the only people flogging the FI are the FTOs who want my money.
It's so bleak I almost want to self-harm. Seriously though, if FI work is non-existent, yet on the other hand CHC (as the current example) are looking for 500hrs for a co-pilot role and "Type Ratied on a heavy helicopter for example Super Puma L2/S92 " (though no mention of the IR in the ad... interesting)... WTF?!?!?! Will someone please enlighten me as to how the hell a wannabee gets into this industry? I've had my eyes-wide-open from day one... but all this doom & gloom is getting the better of me; is FI really no longer the way to go? Is the only hope the IR route? Please tell me this isn't the case?!??!
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The IR used to be the way to go,,,however,,,you would only be eligible to get a job with one of the north sea companies, namely, bond, chc, or bristows.
CHC put you thru a rigorous psychometric test on interview. Which is no mean feat! Bristows say 500 hours twin time, or Bristows academy trained, to become a co pilot,,,Bond,,,,arnt hiring at the moment!
However, i firmly believe there will be a lot more jobs available next year with all the companies,,,its just a feeling but im hoping for a break myself.
Carefully consider all options, visit all the companies for their take on the industry and pilot intake and make a judgement call nearer the time. Good luck!
I did my IR Feb this year and im still unemployed despite applying for jobs all over the world! ;-(
H
CHC put you thru a rigorous psychometric test on interview. Which is no mean feat! Bristows say 500 hours twin time, or Bristows academy trained, to become a co pilot,,,Bond,,,,arnt hiring at the moment!
However, i firmly believe there will be a lot more jobs available next year with all the companies,,,its just a feeling but im hoping for a break myself.
Carefully consider all options, visit all the companies for their take on the industry and pilot intake and make a judgement call nearer the time. Good luck!
I did my IR Feb this year and im still unemployed despite applying for jobs all over the world! ;-(
H
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It's simple supply and demand - I can understand that people can afford to want to get straight into the IR, BUT if only people would stop self funding their IR's with no guarantee of work then perhaps one day we'll be back into the more sensible situation where one can be bonded to it with the offer of work rather than expected to shell out another £45k before even being considered, and still working for peanuts in the meantime.
The problem can only be relieved if people stop self funding so ludicrously just to try and jump a rung on the ladder! We are as a group willing to set the benchmark too high, as if the cost of the CPL(H) itself is not enough
I remember meeting a Eurocopter instructor at Oxford who said 'I was one of the luckier ones, I applied for the job without a license, and Bond/Bristow (I forget which) trained me up to CPL IR'
Stop spending your savings/debt on the IR, let them pay for it once the self funded lot are drying up - surely bonding with the offer of a job is the sensible way forward...?
The problem can only be relieved if people stop self funding so ludicrously just to try and jump a rung on the ladder! We are as a group willing to set the benchmark too high, as if the cost of the CPL(H) itself is not enough
I remember meeting a Eurocopter instructor at Oxford who said 'I was one of the luckier ones, I applied for the job without a license, and Bond/Bristow (I forget which) trained me up to CPL IR'
Stop spending your savings/debt on the IR, let them pay for it once the self funded lot are drying up - surely bonding with the offer of a job is the sensible way forward...?
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You get into the industry by knowing the right people. (Oh... and having the right tickets, the right experience, the right timing and the right luck.)