Portugal HEMS
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Was on a little trip the other day and snapped this :
A little too heavy for the Helipad ( which is on the bow about 7 or 8 decks down from where the photo was taken from ),
The casualty was winched up. ( Never did find out what happened to him / her ) .
Very interesting to watch though - ship heading into wind at about 15-20kts,
and the wind speed felt like it was the same again - nice job
A little too heavy for the Helipad ( which is on the bow about 7 or 8 decks down from where the photo was taken from ),
The casualty was winched up. ( Never did find out what happened to him / her ) .
Very interesting to watch though - ship heading into wind at about 15-20kts,
and the wind speed felt like it was the same again - nice job
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It certainly was - 16th June out of Southampton 
IIRC the incident was on the 20th June, out of Gibraltar on 19th and en route to Cannes.
IIRC the incident was on the 20th June, out of Gibraltar on 19th and en route to Cannes.
Last edited by Coconutty; 24th Jul 2012 at 17:50.
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Thanks Coconutty,
I´ll pass this wonderful photo to the crew involved on that rescue.
To our knowledge, the casualty recovered well.
Here´s a video from another passenger of that AIREV mission:
Best regards,
I´ll pass this wonderful photo to the crew involved on that rescue.
To our knowledge, the casualty recovered well.
Here´s a video from another passenger of that AIREV mission:
Best regards,
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Hey people, please put the air force pilots and the inaer problems out of this post!!!!! Lets keep it on the Ka32!
"
What's the issue with the Ka-32? Utility guys use them here for heavy-lifting and they work well. Reliable, plenty of power, good autopilot system. Needs some avionics added. Compact and no tailtrotor should be a bonus for EMS. They push a lot of air in a hover though, but then so does the 139.
Sounds like your problem might be pilot training or a maintenance program. "
Hello Malabo!! This post its about HEMS, in the case, the future of HEMS in Portugal! The issue with KA32, its NOT A SINGLE issue, in my point of view, and that is what i find hilarious about the Ka32!
In fact its a good heli for heavy lift, fire fighting and not much things more...
Regarding HEMS... Ka32 should be a NO GOOD mean for the mission! Its to much big for HEMS, you need almost an elevator to put someone laying inside, it has a dangerous downwash taking in account that you will probably land near car accidents and other stuff related to HEMS, the auto pilot its not better than the one in Bell 412EP and A109E, even the speed is lower. Inside the Ka there is no space for working around the paciente, inside the A109E i think its a bit close space also, its very noisy inside, and in the summer, you can have temps of around 45ºc inside the cabin, and you have no A/C!! So as you can see plenty of reasons why its should not be used for HEMS!!
And also, its an expensive helicopter compared to what you have now in Portugal!! With 1 hour of Ka32 you can fly 4 or 5 from A109E or another light multi engine heli !!!
You wont see much more KA32 around the world making HEMS... maybe some iluminated mind is reinventing the whell !!
Another funny thing about what its going to happen is, if the Ka32 will be delivered to a civil operator for HEMS, how will the AOC look like???
Even EASA dont like the Ka32 for HEMS!! Its Cat B, only day & night VFR , NO IFR, AND THE BETTER part ... passenger transport is not allowed!!!
You can check the EASE certificate:
http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...2-08062011.pdf
I am seeing anything wrong in here???
"
What's the issue with the Ka-32? Utility guys use them here for heavy-lifting and they work well. Reliable, plenty of power, good autopilot system. Needs some avionics added. Compact and no tailtrotor should be a bonus for EMS. They push a lot of air in a hover though, but then so does the 139.
Sounds like your problem might be pilot training or a maintenance program. "
Hello Malabo!! This post its about HEMS, in the case, the future of HEMS in Portugal! The issue with KA32, its NOT A SINGLE issue, in my point of view, and that is what i find hilarious about the Ka32!
In fact its a good heli for heavy lift, fire fighting and not much things more...
Regarding HEMS... Ka32 should be a NO GOOD mean for the mission! Its to much big for HEMS, you need almost an elevator to put someone laying inside, it has a dangerous downwash taking in account that you will probably land near car accidents and other stuff related to HEMS, the auto pilot its not better than the one in Bell 412EP and A109E, even the speed is lower. Inside the Ka there is no space for working around the paciente, inside the A109E i think its a bit close space also, its very noisy inside, and in the summer, you can have temps of around 45ºc inside the cabin, and you have no A/C!! So as you can see plenty of reasons why its should not be used for HEMS!!
And also, its an expensive helicopter compared to what you have now in Portugal!! With 1 hour of Ka32 you can fly 4 or 5 from A109E or another light multi engine heli !!!
You wont see much more KA32 around the world making HEMS... maybe some iluminated mind is reinventing the whell !!
Another funny thing about what its going to happen is, if the Ka32 will be delivered to a civil operator for HEMS, how will the AOC look like???
Even EASA dont like the Ka32 for HEMS!! Its Cat B, only day & night VFR , NO IFR, AND THE BETTER part ... passenger transport is not allowed!!!
You can check the EASE certificate:
http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...2-08062011.pdf
I am seeing anything wrong in here???
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400Hover
you are.
As I have explained before the new contract will integrate both civil protection and HEMS areas. No one is saying they will use KA32's for HEMS.
I am guessing they will use them for what they have been using so far.
I cannot even imagine how can a KA32 be used for HEMS. I was inside of one at Helitech and although it had room in the back the ceiling was very low. Plus the door is what 2 meters above ground!?
Can you imagine these aircrafts landing in the side of a highway and throwing debris everywhere?
Please don't get me wrong I have no intention to criticize que aircraft, I am just thinking of it in the theater of operations.
Because people usually don't read previous posts, and before someone starts throwing things at me, let me repeat I would be very glad we would have many more around here, especially when these
fires ravage our beautiful Country.
Cheers!
you are.
As I have explained before the new contract will integrate both civil protection and HEMS areas. No one is saying they will use KA32's for HEMS.
I am guessing they will use them for what they have been using so far.
I cannot even imagine how can a KA32 be used for HEMS. I was inside of one at Helitech and although it had room in the back the ceiling was very low. Plus the door is what 2 meters above ground!?
Can you imagine these aircrafts landing in the side of a highway and throwing debris everywhere?
Please don't get me wrong I have no intention to criticize que aircraft, I am just thinking of it in the theater of operations.
Because people usually don't read previous posts, and before someone starts throwing things at me, let me repeat I would be very glad we would have many more around here, especially when these
fires ravage our beautiful Country.Cheers!
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You can read all about EMA's contract here:
http://dre.pt/pdfdbdiacp/2012/07/136/406254734.pdf
Contract objective: "Acquisition of owned aircraft's maintenance and operation and lease of complementary aircraft for Internal Administration Ministry and National Institute of Medical Emergency."
Also there are 6 Kamov Ka32A11BC and 3 AS350 B3 operating in Portugal, this aircraft belong to EMA (public company). Primary missions; Fire Fighting, SAR, secondaries; Surveillance, organ transport, HEMS, boarder patrol, etc.
HeliSul (Inaer's company) has a contract with INEM (National Institute of Medical Emergency) for 2 Bell 412EP and 3 AW109E for HEMS. That as nothing to do with EMA.
Apart from that there are more companies (Helibravo, Heliportugal, HTA, etc) that lease aircraft during the summer in the bush fire season.
Portugal is a small country, in the actual economic crisis is impossible to maintain things as they are. That's the reason EMA's contract appear.
Off Topic: For those guys talking about pilots; There are good pilots and bad pilots everywhere. That does mean good pilots become the bad pilots and bad pilots becomes the good pilots once in a while.
It depends of the definition you have of a good and bad pilot.
Experience is not all. Knowledge is not all. Attitude is not all.
There are so many variables. So don't put all in the same bag.
I think you guys got the picture.
Back to topic again.
http://dre.pt/pdfdbdiacp/2012/07/136/406254734.pdf
Contract objective: "Acquisition of owned aircraft's maintenance and operation and lease of complementary aircraft for Internal Administration Ministry and National Institute of Medical Emergency."
Also there are 6 Kamov Ka32A11BC and 3 AS350 B3 operating in Portugal, this aircraft belong to EMA (public company). Primary missions; Fire Fighting, SAR, secondaries; Surveillance, organ transport, HEMS, boarder patrol, etc.
HeliSul (Inaer's company) has a contract with INEM (National Institute of Medical Emergency) for 2 Bell 412EP and 3 AW109E for HEMS. That as nothing to do with EMA.
Apart from that there are more companies (Helibravo, Heliportugal, HTA, etc) that lease aircraft during the summer in the bush fire season.
Portugal is a small country, in the actual economic crisis is impossible to maintain things as they are. That's the reason EMA's contract appear.
Off Topic: For those guys talking about pilots; There are good pilots and bad pilots everywhere. That does mean good pilots become the bad pilots and bad pilots becomes the good pilots once in a while.
It depends of the definition you have of a good and bad pilot.
Experience is not all. Knowledge is not all. Attitude is not all.
There are so many variables. So don't put all in the same bag.
I think you guys got the picture.
Back to topic again.
Last edited by Focha; 25th Jul 2012 at 13:16.
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Focha, you're right... EMA has nothing to do with the other civil operators! But that is the present situation!
What will happen is that EMA will disappear, and the fleet/ services will subject of an international tender for 5 year contract! And then after a civil operator will do the present job made by EMA!!
That tender predicts HEMS whats is depicted in the link that Vertical751 has shown! 3 light helis for hems + 2 Ka32 + 1 AS350 !! And than the questions arises again: AOC for Ka32 ??? Who will be the civil operator that will risk doing something with an helicopter that the EASE certificate doesnt allow???
What will happen is that EMA will disappear, and the fleet/ services will subject of an international tender for 5 year contract! And then after a civil operator will do the present job made by EMA!!
That tender predicts HEMS whats is depicted in the link that Vertical751 has shown! 3 light helis for hems + 2 Ka32 + 1 AS350 !! And than the questions arises again: AOC for Ka32 ??? Who will be the civil operator that will risk doing something with an helicopter that the EASE certificate doesnt allow???
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Ok guys. I admit I was wrong.
In the worst case scenario the winning company will take the KA32's and will avoid at all costs to have them in the air if required for HEMS.
But that will be after they have addressed the subject brought by 400Hover, which is on the spot. KA32's cannot do HEMS unless INAC goes against EASE and say they can
So people grab the popcorn because we are in for a long feature film.
In the worst case scenario the winning company will take the KA32's and will avoid at all costs to have them in the air if required for HEMS.
But that will be after they have addressed the subject brought by 400Hover, which is on the spot. KA32's cannot do HEMS unless INAC goes against EASE and say they can
So people grab the popcorn because we are in for a long feature film.
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sorry my lack of knowledge, but right now, EMA with the Kamov aren't doing some - yes the down wash is a little more than a "conventional" HEMS machine - HEMS missions, a little between costal/land SAR and HEMS ? 
with what they have, I think they do a very good job... if there are better options, for shure, but like a Portuguese saying "who don't have a dog, hunt with a cat"
if it was possible to make a better service, even with less cost, for sure, but wasn't the same thing...
as an example, of HEMS Ka32 mission...
EMA Facebook photo
regards
with what they have, I think they do a very good job... if there are better options, for shure, but like a Portuguese saying "who don't have a dog, hunt with a cat"
if it was possible to make a better service, even with less cost, for sure, but wasn't the same thing...
as an example, of HEMS Ka32 mission...
EMA Facebook photo
regards
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I think the KA-32 are currently operating as State Aircraft, which exempts them from the AOC (it's the same with the Air Force HEMS). So, if the Ka-32 remain as state owned aircraft, which I believe they will, problem is solved.
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Not quite Merlin_Driver.
If the aircraft are operated by a state department, then yes they are allowed to go outside of any rulings. But if the aircraft go to a private operator, they will ultimately be responsible for whoever they carry on board of their aircraft and therefore insurances will become a problem which will certainly have significant operating cost effects, assuming they will manage to get the insurance.
CHC warned me recently that my IR rating would not be accepted because I would have it done on a R44 IR training platform and it would go against the book. I guess it has nothing to do with the training itself. Flying IR on a R44 must be much more complicated than in an aircraft with AP and stabilizing gadgets of all sorts. It must be insurance related.
What can we expect from insurance companies regarding the transportation of medical patients on an aircraft that is not allowed to?
If the aircraft are operated by a state department, then yes they are allowed to go outside of any rulings. But if the aircraft go to a private operator, they will ultimately be responsible for whoever they carry on board of their aircraft and therefore insurances will become a problem which will certainly have significant operating cost effects, assuming they will manage to get the insurance.
CHC warned me recently that my IR rating would not be accepted because I would have it done on a R44 IR training platform and it would go against the book. I guess it has nothing to do with the training itself. Flying IR on a R44 must be much more complicated than in an aircraft with AP and stabilizing gadgets of all sorts. It must be insurance related.
What can we expect from insurance companies regarding the transportation of medical patients on an aircraft that is not allowed to?
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From what I've read, the Ka-32's will pass from EMA to INAC. It is the same thing, if the aircraft are state owned. When a Merlin transports a HEMS patient in the Azores, there is no insurance company, it's the State, and it's essentially the same situation we are discussing.
From what I've read, I understood that the private company will be operating a State owned aircraft (strange, yes), therefore crewmembers will need to have valid JAA licenses, etc, but the helicopter will be exempt. It's not very different from what has happened ever since the Ka-32 arrived in Portugal, if you think of it...
But as I said before, I am not into the details of the situation...
From what I've read, I understood that the private company will be operating a State owned aircraft (strange, yes), therefore crewmembers will need to have valid JAA licenses, etc, but the helicopter will be exempt. It's not very different from what has happened ever since the Ka-32 arrived in Portugal, if you think of it...
But as I said before, I am not into the details of the situation...
The Ka-32 is execellent for firefighting.It can lift more water than other helicopters of similar size as all the power goes to lifting and it can operate better in turbulence typical of wild fire scenarios.It can also be used out of wind if needed.Inaer have used it for some time in Spain and also in Chile,whilst the Russians and South Korea are also among operators in this role
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Just to bring the subject back to life
