NH-90 Problems?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
I think I can speak for all here.....that is an absolutely incredible post that we seldom have the honor of reading here at pprune.
There is so much to be had out of what you have experienced and shared with us in that post.
Your generation has made us old farts very proud of you by the way you have performed under very trying circumstances and are setting the standard for those that are going to follow on after you. You all have more than earned our respect and admiration.
Hand Salute!
There is so much to be had out of what you have experienced and shared with us in that post.
Your generation has made us old farts very proud of you by the way you have performed under very trying circumstances and are setting the standard for those that are going to follow on after you. You all have more than earned our respect and admiration.
Hand Salute!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 221
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From: Somewhere, Over the Rainbow
I'll echo what Shenanigan says here, but add in one more bit from my experiences. I was a Medevac crewman back towards the earlier parts of the war when launch approval was a lot lower and usually handled by the SRO of the group that was launching if it was anything deemed below a moderate risk. We were taking off in around 5 minutes of the call, and more often than not, received the call ourselves from the ground force. The loss of the autonomy that we had to decide on our own if the mission could be accomplished has affected us far more than the red cross and lack of guns ever did.
As a side note, the crew all carried M4s as our primary weapons, and we were authorized to engage as necessary from the aircraft at any point to protect the crew and ship. I never had to do so, but we all had the general gist in our heads that it would be like "P*ssing in the wind". We returned from our deployment and had a very forward thinking NRCM instructor that devised a training and qualification program for shooting rifles from the aircraft in place of crew served weapons. It was very educational and quite a lot of fun, and about a week after we completed the training, we competed in a "Top Shot" contest with the assault companies for aerial gunnery... just as a laugh. I believe 25 crews competed, a mix of UH-60s and CH-47s, and 3 Medevac crews. We had 90 rounds each, and the M60/M240 laden assault aircraft had a full box of 200 rounds. Our 3 crews took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd... and our 3rd place crew hit twice as many targets as the UH-60 that took 4th. Shooting a rifle from the aircraft, especially when trained, is incredibly effective. With proper launch authority and training on using what you have, Medevac is the best suited asset by far.
Mike
As a side note, the crew all carried M4s as our primary weapons, and we were authorized to engage as necessary from the aircraft at any point to protect the crew and ship. I never had to do so, but we all had the general gist in our heads that it would be like "P*ssing in the wind". We returned from our deployment and had a very forward thinking NRCM instructor that devised a training and qualification program for shooting rifles from the aircraft in place of crew served weapons. It was very educational and quite a lot of fun, and about a week after we completed the training, we competed in a "Top Shot" contest with the assault companies for aerial gunnery... just as a laugh. I believe 25 crews competed, a mix of UH-60s and CH-47s, and 3 Medevac crews. We had 90 rounds each, and the M60/M240 laden assault aircraft had a full box of 200 rounds. Our 3 crews took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd... and our 3rd place crew hit twice as many targets as the UH-60 that took 4th. Shooting a rifle from the aircraft, especially when trained, is incredibly effective. With proper launch authority and training on using what you have, Medevac is the best suited asset by far.
Mike
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
I maintain the two/three M-60's we had were for "psychological warfare".....for the crew not the enemy! We begged for mini-guns!
I am getting old and senile....but it wouid seem to me....immediate launch/diversion by the nearest available aircraft....then sort out the Risk/Decision to Land at the scene and while in contact with the unit on the ground.
If the key is to shorten the time between the wounding and receiving treatment at the Hospital.....then that would be the way to do it. Taking the time to run down through a Risk Analysis Protocol....then make the Decision to launch....wait for the aircraft to arrive overhead....then for the Crew to do yet another Risk Determination (Determination rather than Assessment as it is done first hand and not second/third/fourth hand)....then land for the pickup....takes valuable time away from the wounded personnel....that might otherwise have made a difference in survival of the most seriously wounded.
There are too many Commanders who are getting too worried about "Force Protection" and losing sight of the real priority it seems. In my days....you called....we went. Army Aviation Creed demanded it of us and I am sure the pilots, crew, and medics of today are no different individually....but the system has morphed to something different than it was in the past.
All we have to do is look back at the words of an Army Dust Off pilot who when told by an Infantry unit Commander to leave a Hot LZ due to the intensity of hostile fire.....replied...."Not without your Wounded!!"
I am getting old and senile....but it wouid seem to me....immediate launch/diversion by the nearest available aircraft....then sort out the Risk/Decision to Land at the scene and while in contact with the unit on the ground.
If the key is to shorten the time between the wounding and receiving treatment at the Hospital.....then that would be the way to do it. Taking the time to run down through a Risk Analysis Protocol....then make the Decision to launch....wait for the aircraft to arrive overhead....then for the Crew to do yet another Risk Determination (Determination rather than Assessment as it is done first hand and not second/third/fourth hand)....then land for the pickup....takes valuable time away from the wounded personnel....that might otherwise have made a difference in survival of the most seriously wounded.
There are too many Commanders who are getting too worried about "Force Protection" and losing sight of the real priority it seems. In my days....you called....we went. Army Aviation Creed demanded it of us and I am sure the pilots, crew, and medics of today are no different individually....but the system has morphed to something different than it was in the past.
All we have to do is look back at the words of an Army Dust Off pilot who when told by an Infantry unit Commander to leave a Hot LZ due to the intensity of hostile fire.....replied...."Not without your Wounded!!"
Last edited by SASless; 23rd July 2012 at 12:31.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: 59°45'36N 10°27'59E
Itīs in the media today that the Norwegian MOD has given NH Industries an ultimatum. Deliver our helos NOW, or we cancel the contract.
14 helos was supposed to be delivered five years ago, as of now, only one has arrived, and thats a non mission ready one for basic pilot conversion traning.
14 helos was supposed to be delivered five years ago, as of now, only one has arrived, and thats a non mission ready one for basic pilot conversion traning.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 727
Likes: 47
From: Earth
Itīs in the media today that the Norwegian MOD has given NH Industries an ultimatum. Deliver our helos NOW, or we cancel the contract.
14 helos was supposed to be delivered five years ago, as of now, only one has arrived, and thats a non mission ready one for basic pilot conversion traning.
14 helos was supposed to be delivered five years ago, as of now, only one has arrived, and thats a non mission ready one for basic pilot conversion traning.
