JAA CPL -IR (H) to ATPL IR (H) -MCC or NOT??-
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ...in sight of palmtrees
Age: 43
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JAA CPL -IR (H) to ATPL IR (H) -MCC or NOT??-
Hello folks
I'm a Navy 212 Driver, I've completed the ATPL (H) theory program and done the skill test for the CPL-IR (type rated on 212/412) as amend 6 dictates.
I already have the requirements in terms of Flight hours to sit for an ATPL skill test as Jar-FCL 2.
I've contacted a couple of schools and i've been told that before sitting an ATPL IR skill test i should have the MCC course done.
Now in my CPL license i got the OFFSHORE stamp on and the IR on the 212/412, i have more than 1500 on multi engine turbine, and now heres the dilemma: doesnt it count as multicrew (cause of the offshore and the multi engine ir?)? or should i take the course anyway to do the skill test?.....
Thanks for the help !!
I'm a Navy 212 Driver, I've completed the ATPL (H) theory program and done the skill test for the CPL-IR (type rated on 212/412) as amend 6 dictates.
I already have the requirements in terms of Flight hours to sit for an ATPL skill test as Jar-FCL 2.
I've contacted a couple of schools and i've been told that before sitting an ATPL IR skill test i should have the MCC course done.
Now in my CPL license i got the OFFSHORE stamp on and the IR on the 212/412, i have more than 1500 on multi engine turbine, and now heres the dilemma: doesnt it count as multicrew (cause of the offshore and the multi engine ir?)? or should i take the course anyway to do the skill test?.....
Thanks for the help !!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you operate as a Single Pilot or in a Multi-Pilot environment? I'd thought it would be a Multi-Crew scenario and therefore you may claim MCC credit based on over 500 hours flying Multi-Crew. Sounds to me like the school is trying to make some money off of you, unless you've been flying SP and then it's a different story.
Can you just clarify what you mean by "Offshore stamp"?
Can you just clarify what you mean by "Offshore stamp"?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ...in sight of palmtrees
Age: 43
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Peter
Yes, we operate in multicrew environment, all my 1500 flight hours in the bell 212 (military ) have been done that way...with "stamp" i mean national ratings (as is written in the license itself) and in my case i got OFFSHORE and MOUNTAING AERIAL WORK, those have been recognized by the italian CAA...but the multicrew is not mentioned anywhere...
Yes, we operate in multicrew environment, all my 1500 flight hours in the bell 212 (military ) have been done that way...with "stamp" i mean national ratings (as is written in the license itself) and in my case i got OFFSHORE and MOUNTAING AERIAL WORK, those have been recognized by the italian CAA...but the multicrew is not mentioned anywhere...
Last edited by 212_Nightdipper; 17th Jan 2012 at 16:42.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Santagati,
Here's an excerpt from LASORS, from Section F:
F10.3 Claiming a MCC Credit
Applicants who have a minimum of not less than 500 hours
experience as a pilot of a multi pilot aeroplane/ helicopter
may be credited with the MCC requirement (see Eligibility
for Credits). In accordance with JAR-FCL 1.250/2.250,
completion of MCC or credit from this requirement is
a pre-requisite for training for the first type rating for a
multi-pilot type. Prior to commencement of such training,
the TRTO will need to be satisfied that the trainee is
eligible for MCC credit. Therefore, applicants who believe
that they qualify for such a credit should apply to PLD for
written confirmation of entitlement prior to undertaking the
type rating training for their first multi-pilot type rating.
Multi-pilot helicopter experience is allowable in respect of
a first multi-pilot aeroplane rating and vice versa.
Applicants who meet the following criteria shall ensure that
they complete and submit Application Form SRG\1164,
together with the appropriate fee as per the Scheme
of Charges, and supply full documentary evidence as
stated on the application, including actual flying logbooks
in all cases. Failure to do so will result in a delay in
the processing of the application. Upon satisfactory
assessment, PLD will then provide written confirmation of
credit entitlement to the applicant.
Eligibility for Credits
Holders of JAR-FCL or UK national licences who already
have an MPA type rating endorsement will be credited with
the MCC Course requirement. The following applicants
will also be credited the MCC Course
Pretty sure this is still based off of Amendment 3, not sure what the Italian CAA is using at the moment for the JAR-FCL2 or the Swedish CAA. The thing is what matters ultimately is your issuing State, in this case Italy.
Have you claimed a MCC credit based on your 1500 hours Multi-Crew time from the Italian CAA? Those are the ones who need to lift any restriction you have one your license (Single Pilot Helicopters only).
Interesting about the Offshore stamp though, never heard about that before.
Hope this helps and good luck to you
Here's an excerpt from LASORS, from Section F:
F10.3 Claiming a MCC Credit
Applicants who have a minimum of not less than 500 hours
experience as a pilot of a multi pilot aeroplane/ helicopter
may be credited with the MCC requirement (see Eligibility
for Credits). In accordance with JAR-FCL 1.250/2.250,
completion of MCC or credit from this requirement is
a pre-requisite for training for the first type rating for a
multi-pilot type. Prior to commencement of such training,
the TRTO will need to be satisfied that the trainee is
eligible for MCC credit. Therefore, applicants who believe
that they qualify for such a credit should apply to PLD for
written confirmation of entitlement prior to undertaking the
type rating training for their first multi-pilot type rating.
Multi-pilot helicopter experience is allowable in respect of
a first multi-pilot aeroplane rating and vice versa.
Applicants who meet the following criteria shall ensure that
they complete and submit Application Form SRG\1164,
together with the appropriate fee as per the Scheme
of Charges, and supply full documentary evidence as
stated on the application, including actual flying logbooks
in all cases. Failure to do so will result in a delay in
the processing of the application. Upon satisfactory
assessment, PLD will then provide written confirmation of
credit entitlement to the applicant.
Eligibility for Credits
Holders of JAR-FCL or UK national licences who already
have an MPA type rating endorsement will be credited with
the MCC Course requirement. The following applicants
will also be credited the MCC Course
Pretty sure this is still based off of Amendment 3, not sure what the Italian CAA is using at the moment for the JAR-FCL2 or the Swedish CAA. The thing is what matters ultimately is your issuing State, in this case Italy.
Have you claimed a MCC credit based on your 1500 hours Multi-Crew time from the Italian CAA? Those are the ones who need to lift any restriction you have one your license (Single Pilot Helicopters only).
Interesting about the Offshore stamp though, never heard about that before.
Hope this helps and good luck to you
Guest
Posts: n/a
Had a similar problem with the German CAA(LBA) once...
Although they were granting me with the MCC-credit due to our military multi-crew-only operations (on Utility helicopters), they did not accept these hours as multi-crew hours for my ATPL(H) -conversion.
Even after i proved that i have flown the necessary hours according to JAR-FCL in a multi-pilot environment (according to the Ops Manual/Flight Manual)-including IR-they did not accept that.
I should have taken another checkride-ro be checked in a multi-pilot helicopter, thereafter starting to collect the necessary hours towards my ATPL(H) all over again...
According to JAR-FCL, you will need a multi-pilot type rating FIRST, before you can start collecting hours towards your ATPL(H) (as long as there are no other special agreements between your military and your CAA)...
Although they were granting me with the MCC-credit due to our military multi-crew-only operations (on Utility helicopters), they did not accept these hours as multi-crew hours for my ATPL(H) -conversion.
Even after i proved that i have flown the necessary hours according to JAR-FCL in a multi-pilot environment (according to the Ops Manual/Flight Manual)-including IR-they did not accept that.
I should have taken another checkride-ro be checked in a multi-pilot helicopter, thereafter starting to collect the necessary hours towards my ATPL(H) all over again...
According to JAR-FCL, you will need a multi-pilot type rating FIRST, before you can start collecting hours towards your ATPL(H) (as long as there are no other special agreements between your military and your CAA)...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ...in sight of palmtrees
Age: 43
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the precious infos Peter......i guess that im gonna have to talk to the italian CAA then and try to get credit for the MCC also.........Wish me good luck!!!....
....Wish me good luck!!!....
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Santagati, I'd try to get that credit from the Italian CAA, having said that I wasn't aware that servicemen would be treated differently as huey brought up. I believe that the Portuguese CAA treats fairly their military/ex-military, we have a few portuguese Aviators around here and I'd be happy to be corrected case I'm wrong.
So if they don't grant you that credit, consider transferring State to a friendlier institution
So if they don't grant you that credit, consider transferring State to a friendlier institution
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ...in sight of palmtrees
Age: 43
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peter
regarding transferring to "friendlier" institution...thats what i was actually thinking...but also in this case...would it be "painless"?..i mean....will i have to convert my (JAA) italian CPL-IR into another JAA land one (lets say swedish) first and then get skill tested again for the ATPL?...A JAA license shouldnt it be valid in any of JAA country regardless of the state of issue?
...shouldnt they simplify our life?...if so...sorry i havent noticed it yet!...any advice in terms of JAA pilot "Friendlier State"??
Dario
regarding transferring to "friendlier" institution...thats what i was actually thinking...but also in this case...would it be "painless"?..i mean....will i have to convert my (JAA) italian CPL-IR into another JAA land one (lets say swedish) first and then get skill tested again for the ATPL?...A JAA license shouldnt it be valid in any of JAA country regardless of the state of issue?
...shouldnt they simplify our life?...if so...sorry i havent noticed it yet!...any advice in terms of JAA pilot "Friendlier State"??Dario
