UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
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Heard today that NPAS currently deep in the red and if it was a PLC the administrator's would be running it. When are government projects going to learn their lessons. This smacks of a mini Nimrod programme, driven hard and fast and nobody having the sense to say "STOP this is not working how we thought and the savings are minimal for the lose of service".
At least Mr Herbert get's to keep his helicopter in his constiuency, sorry should not be cynical after all it is all for the greater good NPAS
Not Providing A Service
At least Mr Herbert get's to keep his helicopter in his constiuency, sorry should not be cynical after all it is all for the greater good NPAS
Not Providing A Service
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"At least Mr Herbert get's to keep his helicopter in his constiuency"
Is he, are you sure?
Nick Herbert - for Arundel and South Downs
I think you will find it is relocating to Redhill
Is he, are you sure?
Nick Herbert - for Arundel and South Downs
I think you will find it is relocating to Redhill
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Sorry Ivor E Tower, you are correct it is just outside his constiuency boundary but all within 10 mins flying time.
Latest rumour it may not be the 902 going to Redhill now but a 135, somebody must have banged their head and come up with the corrct decsion.
Latest rumour it may not be the 902 going to Redhill now but a 135, somebody must have banged their head and come up with the corrct decsion.
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Has anyone wondered whether the writer of the "Winsor Review into Police Pay & Conditions" ( now publicly available ) has an alterior motive ?
In his submissions, the role of Police Air Observer is not a qualifying "Specialist Role", and the current maximum pay point for Police Officers would not be available to Air Support Officers, effectively meaning that the maximum pay for that role would be £5487.00 LESS than it is now ( not to mention the additional £1122 CRTP payment made to those that have been at the top of the pay scale for 12 months and have demonstrated competency in their role ).
It's not clear what would happen to those in post now as to whether they would suffer a hefty pay cut ( one would hope not ), but how does Mr. Winsor envisage recruiting Police Officers into that "Non Specialist" role, when the prospects for pay progression are so poor, compared with some of the other roles that do qualify as "Specialist", such as Traffic Officers, Complaints & Discipline Officers, Custody Officers, Community Safety Officers etc etc ......
I'm sure there are a LOT of highly skilled Police Observers ( who have had to pass rigorous selection procedures, received intial training to natioal and local standards, and are required to maintain and demonstrate their competencies in the role annually by way of "Line Checks") who will feel insulted that they are not considered to have Specialist Skills, and will no doubt be raising the issue as a matter of urgency with their Police Federation representatives, to canvass for their role to be included as a Specialist skill, and be appropriately rewarded for the work they do.
Or are they all going to be booted out under NPAS and be replaced by Civilian Staff
?
In his submissions, the role of Police Air Observer is not a qualifying "Specialist Role", and the current maximum pay point for Police Officers would not be available to Air Support Officers, effectively meaning that the maximum pay for that role would be £5487.00 LESS than it is now ( not to mention the additional £1122 CRTP payment made to those that have been at the top of the pay scale for 12 months and have demonstrated competency in their role ).
It's not clear what would happen to those in post now as to whether they would suffer a hefty pay cut ( one would hope not ), but how does Mr. Winsor envisage recruiting Police Officers into that "Non Specialist" role, when the prospects for pay progression are so poor, compared with some of the other roles that do qualify as "Specialist", such as Traffic Officers, Complaints & Discipline Officers, Custody Officers, Community Safety Officers etc etc ......
I'm sure there are a LOT of highly skilled Police Observers ( who have had to pass rigorous selection procedures, received intial training to natioal and local standards, and are required to maintain and demonstrate their competencies in the role annually by way of "Line Checks") who will feel insulted that they are not considered to have Specialist Skills, and will no doubt be raising the issue as a matter of urgency with their Police Federation representatives, to canvass for their role to be included as a Specialist skill, and be appropriately rewarded for the work they do.
Or are they all going to be booted out under NPAS and be replaced by Civilian Staff
?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I reckon someone has pointed out that Police Observers are still classed as passengers and realised there were savings to be had.
Maybe it just goes to show that despite 25+ years of Police Air Support, those on high still have little idea of what it's all about
Maybe it just goes to show that despite 25+ years of Police Air Support, those on high still have little idea of what it's all about
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
That’s why on our unit Police Observers are called Tactical flight officers 
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
So it seems that Yorkshire have to make a decision this week as to whether they will host NPAS. Or shall I rephrase that:
The Home Office insists that S Yorks makes their play by the end of this week.
[Otherwise "Hogan Howdie stranger" will remove said upstarts from starting blocks and do it himself in the Met].
It's all coming to a head as the deadline looms and the AOC is still in the minds of those who can make it work. Busy busy.........................
The Home Office insists that S Yorks makes their play by the end of this week.
[Otherwise "Hogan Howdie stranger" will remove said upstarts from starting blocks and do it himself in the Met].
It's all coming to a head as the deadline looms and the AOC is still in the minds of those who can make it work. Busy busy.........................
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Police Air Support: The Police (Collaboration: Specified Function) Order 2012 - WMS
Police Air Support: The Police (Collaboration: Specified Function) Order 2012 - WMS | Home Office
Does this mean that The Minister of State for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert) can force a constabulary to host NPAS?
IF a force as big as W Yorks turn down the chance to host NPAS - who will then look at NPAS as being a viable proposition? I can only think of one force, has TC hit the nail on the head?
Does this mean that The Minister of State for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert) can force a constabulary to host NPAS?
IF a force as big as W Yorks turn down the chance to host NPAS - who will then look at NPAS as being a viable proposition? I can only think of one force, has TC hit the nail on the head?
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don't you need a Police officer on board the aircraft in order to call it a Police helicopter ?? 26th Mar 2012 20:04
Good job too because if those Police Reforms go ahead,
there won't be any Police Officers prepared to take the £6k+ pay cut to do the job !
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Nick Herbert and Alex Marshall must be on another planet if they think what they have put forward is true
On the basis of that review, the National Police Air Service (NPAS) project has been led by Chief Constable Alex Marshall and has the full support of ACPO. The advantages of NPAS include the following:
On the basis of that review, the National Police Air Service (NPAS) project has been led by Chief Constable Alex Marshall and has the full support of ACPO. The advantages of NPAS include the following:
- It will give all forces access to helicopter support 24 hours a day, 365 days year – in contrast to the current system which sees some force helicopters grounded for days a time while they are being repaired.
- 97 per cent of the population of England and Wales will remain within 20 minutes' flying time.
- It will also save the police service £15m per year when fully operational.
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Still banging the same old drum which might have sounded good originally,
and who wouldn'l agree to such a fantastic plan, BUT :
This can / has been / is being done NOW without NPAS !
Figures unproved / unreliable, and DO NOT mean 97 per cent of the population will get Air Supoort within 20 minutes for "24 hours a day, 365 days a year".
Really ? <yawn> - Isn't that just the cost of the scrapped / doomed aircraft removed under the NPAS plan ? Oh and :
.... that's around 2018 isn't it ?
and who wouldn'l agree to such a fantastic plan, BUT :
t will give all forces access to helicopter support 24 hours a day, 365 days year – in contrast to the current system which sees some force helicopters grounded for days a time while they are being repaired.
97 per cent of the population of England and Wales will remain within 20 minutes' flying time.
It will also save the police service £15m per year
..... when fully operational.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Good job too because if those Police Reforms go ahead, there won't be any Police Officers prepared to take the £6k+ pay cut to do the job !
That pay cut is getting greater and greater everytime it is mentioned on a different site. Aren't the new scales showing a difference of £5487 between 6&7? Certainly not "£6k+"
As it is recognised in the report, it would be interesting to see how many Police Officer Observers have actually used their warranted powers while on duty as a rostered observer!
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Sid - Spot on - the proposed scales do indeed show a difference of £5487, between points 6 & 7,
but unsurprisingly, they don't take into account that a PC on the top of the scale now, ( Point 7 of the proposed scale )
that has been there for 12 months or more, may also be in receipt of "Competency Related Threshold Payment"
( CRTP ) of £1212 a year, bringing the total potential difference to £6699
( Figures edited from initial post - CRTP is not £1122 a year - it's £1212 a year ! )
but unsurprisingly, they don't take into account that a PC on the top of the scale now, ( Point 7 of the proposed scale )
that has been there for 12 months or more, may also be in receipt of "Competency Related Threshold Payment"
( CRTP ) of £1212 a year, bringing the total potential difference to £6699
( Figures edited from initial post - CRTP is not £1122 a year - it's £1212 a year ! )
Last edited by Coconutty; 28th Mar 2012 at 15:55.