Blue times at ORNGE
I especially like the part about Agusta's $6.7 million kickback directly into the ORNGE CEO's pockets. Maybe Sikorsky was too bound by either honor or FCPA and lost out on the bidding for the 20 new helicopters. And what's with all the cascading shell companies financed by the public purse?
Canada News: ORNGE admits secrecy surrounding exec
Canada News: ORNGE admits secrecy surrounding exec
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Yes,it was! Someone is trying to save his job and do damage control.The all setup was done to create an empire using the Air Ambulance as platform to sell themselves and make a lots of money.The Air Ambulance has been destroyed and nobody wants to use it because the dispatch it taking so much time to approve a flight.It is a disfunctional system.The 139 is unsustainable for the future and keeping it will be a gigantic mistake with reduction of service due to high cost.
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more ornge juice
Ornge must have made a substantial mess up of their research and ordering if the 139 cabin is cramped compared to the 76 cabin, and takes longer to load a patient.
Perhaps if they had asked other 139 Medevac operators for advice, they would have a better all-round machine than the heap of
they have now.
There are enough Medevac 139's around that any bugs with the interiors have been worked out of them by now.
Research research research people.
Of course, having the bosses go and have a look at the thing before now would have been a good idea too!!!!!
Unfortunately, Agusta, as with most OEM's, will gie the Customer what they order, not necessarily what they need. Big difference.
There are some glaring ommissions from their aircraft (slump pads for soft terrain ops for instance) that should have been a part of the basic order for the machines operating in the environment in which they do.
My 2 cents
Perhaps if they had asked other 139 Medevac operators for advice, they would have a better all-round machine than the heap of
they have now.There are enough Medevac 139's around that any bugs with the interiors have been worked out of them by now.
Research research research people.
Of course, having the bosses go and have a look at the thing before now would have been a good idea too!!!!!
Unfortunately, Agusta, as with most OEM's, will gie the Customer what they order, not necessarily what they need. Big difference.
There are some glaring ommissions from their aircraft (slump pads for soft terrain ops for instance) that should have been a part of the basic order for the machines operating in the environment in which they do.
My 2 cents
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The Criminal Investigators should have been involved from the very start of the Audit......as Auditors are not good Cops....but with some encouragement and advice on what to look for....they do very good work that successful prosecutions can be based upon.
The Auditors lay out what happened, how it happened, and who fingers are on the process. The Investigator then sorts out who did what and why.
When the Cops get to the weak link...the lowest ranking guy with the most to lose for the least gain.....and offer to trade time behind bars for cooperation....this Ornge is going to get peeled wide open!
Agusta might gird their loins as well.....allegations of Bribery when plastered all over the News Media stinks!
The Auditors lay out what happened, how it happened, and who fingers are on the process. The Investigator then sorts out who did what and why.
When the Cops get to the weak link...the lowest ranking guy with the most to lose for the least gain.....and offer to trade time behind bars for cooperation....this Ornge is going to get peeled wide open!
Agusta might gird their loins as well.....allegations of Bribery when plastered all over the News Media stinks!
Investigation at ORNGE yielding results....Follow the Money!
Tis beginning to look like 6.7 Million Dollars may have been in form of a Kickback for purchase of some helicopters if one believes the latest report on the ORNGE Investigation.
As I have said in the past....."Follow the Money!"
I shall ask the question.....who can provide the answer?
Does Agusta, Agusta-Westland, have the ability in-house to do market research contracted to ORNGE? Have they done market research in the past and are they now doing the same kind of research they contracted for with ORNGE?
Did Agusta pay a fair price for the product(s) specified in the contract between the parties (Agusta and ORNGE)?
Was the performance on the contract monitored by Agusta Officials to ensure timely, accurate, and substantive performance by the contractor?
Were the products, reports, and requirements to measure the Contractors performance detailed in any sort of Contract Specification Document?
What was the Contract Specifications?
Who at Agusta was directly responsible for administering the ORNGE Contract?
How was payment made to the Contractor....Single Payment Lump Sum in advance or by installments? What documentation did ORNGE provide Agusta to certify performance? Who submitted it....who approved it?
I loved doing Fraud and Bribery Investigations!
Asking all those kinds of questions to Business Executives/Government Employees could be so much fun as the answers sometimes could be quite entertaining especially when it involved their trying to pull a Rabbit out of a hat.
They are like a Dog eating a Blanket....you start pulling on a single thread....and in time the whole thing unravels! When the Prosecutors and Investigators start offering Plea Bargains to the lesser involved folks the rate of progress really picks up. It sounds as if they are getting to that point in the investigation. There are enough leads to follow that something big will get kicked loose at the top of the hill and start rolling before long....just like a snowball off a roof.
Canada News: ORNGE execs
As I have said in the past....."Follow the Money!"
I shall ask the question.....who can provide the answer?
Does Agusta, Agusta-Westland, have the ability in-house to do market research contracted to ORNGE? Have they done market research in the past and are they now doing the same kind of research they contracted for with ORNGE?
Did Agusta pay a fair price for the product(s) specified in the contract between the parties (Agusta and ORNGE)?
Was the performance on the contract monitored by Agusta Officials to ensure timely, accurate, and substantive performance by the contractor?
Were the products, reports, and requirements to measure the Contractors performance detailed in any sort of Contract Specification Document?
What was the Contract Specifications?
Who at Agusta was directly responsible for administering the ORNGE Contract?
How was payment made to the Contractor....Single Payment Lump Sum in advance or by installments? What documentation did ORNGE provide Agusta to certify performance? Who submitted it....who approved it?
I loved doing Fraud and Bribery Investigations!
Asking all those kinds of questions to Business Executives/Government Employees could be so much fun as the answers sometimes could be quite entertaining especially when it involved their trying to pull a Rabbit out of a hat.
They are like a Dog eating a Blanket....you start pulling on a single thread....and in time the whole thing unravels! When the Prosecutors and Investigators start offering Plea Bargains to the lesser involved folks the rate of progress really picks up. It sounds as if they are getting to that point in the investigation. There are enough leads to follow that something big will get kicked loose at the top of the hill and start rolling before long....just like a snowball off a roof.
Canada News: ORNGE execs
Last edited by SASless; 25th Apr 2012 at 16:26.
Sounds like a familiar refrain.....Liberals in Government running from Sun Light!
http://www.ontariopc.com/media/2012/...ge-scandal.pdf
http://www.ontariopc.com/media/2012/...ge-scandal.pdf
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The Ornge mess!!
Guys,
Nobody has any doubts that it is a kickback.When you work for this system,you know that this medical interior is a disaster after seeing it for 5 minutes.Completely inefficient and way to heavy.The aircraft is always above 6400kg and the operating cost is gone kill this operation.Ornge should have been shut down completely! Instead, it is bad organization with no aviation knowledge and lots of people with very high salaries.How Ornge could provide any services to Agusta when they do not know what is an helicopter.Everybody is disgust and moral is low.That's the reality.
Nobody has any doubts that it is a kickback
.When you work for this system,you know that this medical interior is a disaster after seeing it for 5 minutes.Completely inefficient and way to heavy.The aircraft is always above 6400kg and the operating cost is gone kill this operation.Ornge should have been shut down completely! Instead, it is bad organization with no aviation knowledge and lots of people with very high salaries.How Ornge could provide any services to Agusta when they do not know what is an helicopter.Everybody is disgust and moral is low.That's the reality.
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Mazza & Bartolotta: "Move along, nothing to see here"
Mazza: ORNGE scandal was "unfortunate"
Bartolotta: Va fa napole
Mazza: ORNGE scandal was "unfortunate"
Bartolotta: Va fa napole
Some interesting questions are begged after reading the two articles.
The aircraft were sold to ORNGE "below market", ORNGE then asked for Mods that were not covered in the original purchase price and they were sold at a deep discount, and when asked by ORNGE AW donated 2% of total sales as a charitable donation to be used to underwrite a Video Production? Did I read that right? Why the below market and deep discount then the donation and the consultancy contract valued at Six Million Dollars? Why all this favored treatment of ORNGE by AW? Why the MSA contract that AW had the ability to do in-house....they do have a very effective marketing staff as the 139 is supposed to be the best selling machine in its class. Why ORNGE as there are other very capable Medical Interior builders that have done hundreds upon hundreds of interiors?
ORNGE delivered some or was it none of the Deliverables on the Consulting Contract....I think I read it both ways in Bartolotta's article.
I would love to be doing the investigation...there is so much dirt to be sifted through and questions to be asked..... it would be great fun watching the principals in their thousand dollar suits trying to answer them. I bet there would be some sweaty armpits before it was over!
I have some old NCIS buddies that would be great partners in a consultancy agreement with the Ontario government....and having some spare time on our hands all of us being retired now....we would enjoy a trip north!
Whether there was a criminal conspiracy between AW and ORNGE or not will have to be determined by the Canadian Authorities....but for sure the whole deal smells! The ol' Sniff Test has got them already....how bad it gets is anyone's guess.
There is a movie in this....as it has all the ingredients for a good one...Money, corruption, sex, death, helicopters, big business, government money, and politicians, whistleblowers!
The aircraft were sold to ORNGE "below market", ORNGE then asked for Mods that were not covered in the original purchase price and they were sold at a deep discount, and when asked by ORNGE AW donated 2% of total sales as a charitable donation to be used to underwrite a Video Production? Did I read that right? Why the below market and deep discount then the donation and the consultancy contract valued at Six Million Dollars? Why all this favored treatment of ORNGE by AW? Why the MSA contract that AW had the ability to do in-house....they do have a very effective marketing staff as the 139 is supposed to be the best selling machine in its class. Why ORNGE as there are other very capable Medical Interior builders that have done hundreds upon hundreds of interiors?
ORNGE delivered some or was it none of the Deliverables on the Consulting Contract....I think I read it both ways in Bartolotta's article.
I would love to be doing the investigation...there is so much dirt to be sifted through and questions to be asked..... it would be great fun watching the principals in their thousand dollar suits trying to answer them. I bet there would be some sweaty armpits before it was over!
I have some old NCIS buddies that would be great partners in a consultancy agreement with the Ontario government....and having some spare time on our hands all of us being retired now....we would enjoy a trip north!
Whether there was a criminal conspiracy between AW and ORNGE or not will have to be determined by the Canadian Authorities....but for sure the whole deal smells! The ol' Sniff Test has got them already....how bad it gets is anyone's guess.
There is a movie in this....as it has all the ingredients for a good one...Money, corruption, sex, death, helicopters, big business, government money, and politicians, whistleblowers!
Last edited by SASless; 19th Jul 2012 at 12:57.
Whatever was the result of the Investigations at Ornge....all the Fraud and such that was alleged and all? All that shake out yet?
From Blue to Red....with the payment of Bonuses and defaulted Loans.
The Investigation continues and some suggestion there may be Criminal Charges brought against the former Senior Management Staff.
Ornge investigation may take another year, says OPP - Toronto - CBC News
ORNGE investigation: Whistle-blower suspended after testifying at probe | Toronto Star
The Investigation continues and some suggestion there may be Criminal Charges brought against the former Senior Management Staff.
Ornge investigation may take another year, says OPP - Toronto - CBC News
ORNGE investigation: Whistle-blower suspended after testifying at probe | Toronto Star
Last edited by SASless; 4th Jun 2013 at 13:57.
Probably!
The fact it was one of the very early A Model 76's....with just Phase II Hamilton Standard SAS is probably far more an issue than the financial problems/management issues that were the focus of the investigation.
There is new management in place who are working to fix the old problems....so finding a direct link between all those issues and this tragedy are pretty slim if existent at all.
If there is a mechanical failure found that could be blamed on the turmoil then maybe.
But....way too soon to begin to make any guesses as to what the cause(s) of the crash might be.
Let's wait to see what the Investigation turns up and is reported to the Public.
The fact it was one of the very early A Model 76's....with just Phase II Hamilton Standard SAS is probably far more an issue than the financial problems/management issues that were the focus of the investigation.
There is new management in place who are working to fix the old problems....so finding a direct link between all those issues and this tragedy are pretty slim if existent at all.
If there is a mechanical failure found that could be blamed on the turmoil then maybe.
But....way too soon to begin to make any guesses as to what the cause(s) of the crash might be.
Let's wait to see what the Investigation turns up and is reported to the Public.
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I am 100% in agreement with SAS. It would be a monumentous stretch to link these two issues.
As far as the 76A's...they have done the job successfully for decades but like any good tool, they can be unforgiving.
================
Regarding this whole thread: another example of a customer (Ontario Ministry of Health/Ornge) who feels after a period of time that they can better manage all that money they are giving to the helicopter operator.
They aren't the first that even I have seen in my limited experience. They won't be that last. I would never, as a helicopter pilot, decide that I was capable of managing a hospital or running the operations of an emergency room, or of running a lumber mill, and the list goes on.
The people who are used to holding the purse strings and being at the top of their respective game will inevitably think they know better, invest, and then muck it up. The exceptions are notable for their rarity.
As far as the 76A's...they have done the job successfully for decades but like any good tool, they can be unforgiving.
================
Regarding this whole thread: another example of a customer (Ontario Ministry of Health/Ornge) who feels after a period of time that they can better manage all that money they are giving to the helicopter operator.
They aren't the first that even I have seen in my limited experience. They won't be that last. I would never, as a helicopter pilot, decide that I was capable of managing a hospital or running the operations of an emergency room, or of running a lumber mill, and the list goes on.
The people who are used to holding the purse strings and being at the top of their respective game will inevitably think they know better, invest, and then muck it up. The exceptions are notable for their rarity.