Helicopter down in NYC (Oct 2011)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asia
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice post FH1100.
It seems to me, while he may have had a lot of hours in the B model, he did not have proper training for flying out of 34th street. From the pictures I saw of the passengers I wonder what his takeoff weight was. I would think he was very heavy. He needed an airspeed over altitude takeoff. I am thinking he pulled max power(and then some) and tried to climb when he should have gotten some running room off the pad, over the little bulkhead and then nosed it over a little bit towards the water and kept it in ground effect until his airspeed built up and then climbed slowly.
It's a scary thing lowering the nose when you are that close to the water but that's where the proper training comes in. Back in its heyday, Island helicopters did it like that all summer long in the old B models and straight L models.
I did hear today that the helicopter did come out of an annual inspection so there is always a chance something wasn't put back together correctly but I think it was a factor of weight, lack of airspeed and poor take off planning.
It seems to me, while he may have had a lot of hours in the B model, he did not have proper training for flying out of 34th street. From the pictures I saw of the passengers I wonder what his takeoff weight was. I would think he was very heavy. He needed an airspeed over altitude takeoff. I am thinking he pulled max power(and then some) and tried to climb when he should have gotten some running room off the pad, over the little bulkhead and then nosed it over a little bit towards the water and kept it in ground effect until his airspeed built up and then climbed slowly.
It's a scary thing lowering the nose when you are that close to the water but that's where the proper training comes in. Back in its heyday, Island helicopters did it like that all summer long in the old B models and straight L models.
I did hear today that the helicopter did come out of an annual inspection so there is always a chance something wasn't put back together correctly but I think it was a factor of weight, lack of airspeed and poor take off planning.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: new jersey, usa
Age: 78
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
autorotate over manhattan
haven't been on the net in a while (damn windows 7), but just two anecdotes......a few weeks after i started working at 34th st heliport, a pilot in a jet ranger "b" model, lost his engine over the hudson river at about canal street, made it back to 34 st, put it in the river just short of the heliport, he and two mechanics made it out ok......second was pilot on a sightseeing flight with a dauphine (they were bottom of the battle consripts from who knows where) had transmission start chewing itself up down around the brooklyn bridge.....brought it back to 34th st about 30 feet above the river, and actually managed to land it on the pad.....of course, he was an ex-tuskegee airman, so i guess he was used to problems; in his 70's, he was still cool as a cucumber, and only a half hour after landing did he come in to me in ops and start shaking (just a little).
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: new jersey, usa
Age: 78
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
excellent, elegant post.....
best post i've read in a long, long time......covers all the bases, succinctly and intelligently. i've been off the net for several months due to windows7 problems, so i apologize for not responding sooner. now, slightly off the topic, from reading your post i have a feeling i've worked with you, as i "ran" 34th st from about 1982 to 1991, when we flew jet rangers, long rangers, etc. on sightseeing flights, new york helicopter, and a few commercial operators. since the early '90's, 34th st has been pretty much a parking lot for corporate big boys, so i figger you flew out of there during my time. having witnessed a few "incidents", i was pleased to read your commentary, and wish there were more such as you to analyze and hopefully improve flight safety measures.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rock #3
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NTSB final report
Probable cause:
Probable cause:
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot's failure to anticipate and correct for conditions (high gross weight, low indicated airspeed, and a right downwind turn) conducive to loss of tail rotor effectiveness (LTE), which resulted in LTE and an uncontrolled spin. Contributing to the accident was the pilot’s inadequate preflight planning, which resulted in the helicopter being in excess of its maximum allowable gross weight at takeoff.
The pilot's failure to anticipate and correct for conditions (high gross weight, low indicated airspeed, and a right downwind turn) conducive to loss of tail rotor effectiveness (LTE), which resulted in LTE and an uncontrolled spin. Contributing to the accident was the pilot’s inadequate preflight planning, which resulted in the helicopter being in excess of its maximum allowable gross weight at takeoff.
Last edited by Dynamic Roller; 3rd Mar 2013 at 18:47.
