Really----Am I reading this right???
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Really----Am I reading this right???
Hospital allowed to receive night time flights for patients needing emergency care.
What will they think of next....?
Remind me if ever I come back to Britain to only have a heart attack during the day.... Over-regulation gone awry me thinks....
What will they think of next....?
Remind me if ever I come back to Britain to only have a heart attack during the day.... Over-regulation gone awry me thinks....
Hospital allowed to receive night time flights for patients needing emergency care
Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust is delighted to announce that its planning application to vary the flight restrictions on the helipad at Queen Alexandra Hospital has been approved.
The Trust sought permission from Portsmouth City Council to vary the flight restrictions on the helipad to meet the changing, and future, health needs of patients in Portsmouth and the surrounding areas. On Wednesday 14 September the council’s planning committee granted permission for the helipad to allow urgent patients to arrive by helicopter between the hours of 6pm and 10pm, and for the allowance of night time arrivals when it is an emergency.
Richard Jones, Chief of Medicine, said “We are delighted with the city council’s decision today. The main reason for opening the helipad at night is to get major heart attack patients to the cardiac unit as quickly as possible to receive angioplasty treatment. By allowing us to change the landing restrictions on the helipad at Queen Alexandra Hospital more people will have access to our services and we will be able to save more lives.”
Previous planning permission for use of the helipad was between 8am and 6pm, or from dawn to dusk, whichever is the shorter.
Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust is delighted to announce that its planning application to vary the flight restrictions on the helipad at Queen Alexandra Hospital has been approved.
The Trust sought permission from Portsmouth City Council to vary the flight restrictions on the helipad to meet the changing, and future, health needs of patients in Portsmouth and the surrounding areas. On Wednesday 14 September the council’s planning committee granted permission for the helipad to allow urgent patients to arrive by helicopter between the hours of 6pm and 10pm, and for the allowance of night time arrivals when it is an emergency.
Richard Jones, Chief of Medicine, said “We are delighted with the city council’s decision today. The main reason for opening the helipad at night is to get major heart attack patients to the cardiac unit as quickly as possible to receive angioplasty treatment. By allowing us to change the landing restrictions on the helipad at Queen Alexandra Hospital more people will have access to our services and we will be able to save more lives.”
Previous planning permission for use of the helipad was between 8am and 6pm, or from dawn to dusk, whichever is the shorter.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Night flights in the UK must in flown in accordance with IFR, for good reason.
As for having to fly all night flights under IFR---I disagree with that too.... Lets fly IMC under IFR, but I see nothing wrong with flying VFR night flights....I have many hours at night and never encountered IMC, yet have come close to going inadvertent IMC during daylight. The accident rate of EMS flights in the US is not limited to night time.
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
Victoria has 4 Bell 412 and a Dauphin for state wide HEMS, sometimes I think the UK and CAA need to get out into the real world.
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From: Devon
Night Air Ambo's
The UK/CAA does allow medical night flights, always have for the coastguard, RAF and Navy SAR. They have the right kit and crew composition in the aircraft but the charity funded air ambo's are generally single pilot VFR day ops.
I agree that the US NIGHT accident rate for HEMS ops is unacceptable and that is what the UK CAA is trying to prevent.
I agree that the US NIGHT accident rate for HEMS ops is unacceptable and that is what the UK CAA is trying to prevent.
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From: Beside the seaside
As you well know John Australian HEMS operation are not classed as RPT and that makes a huge difference. I have flown HEMS from rooftop city helipads in Australia and there is no single engine accountability below VY. CASA apparently have no problem with this. I often wonder if a fully loaded HEMS machine crashing onto A busy street in the CBD would make any difference to that?
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
As you well know John Australian HEMS operation are not classed as RPT and that makes a huge difference. I have flown HEMS from rooftop city helipads in Australia and there is no single engine accountability below VY. CASA apparently have no problem with this. I often wonder if a fully loaded HEMS machine crashing onto A busy street in the CBD would make any difference to that?
Do the CAA in UK require this? I'd be surprised if many of their machines could achieve it, especially if (as is inferred here) they have to operate IFR at night with all the additional fuel that would require
(actually posted at 17:16 local, after PO Dust Devil's contribution. Blasted time fairy again!!!
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From: sans frontieres
Greetings all,
I think the whole point relates to arbitrary planning rules.....like 8 - 6 ????? - What if you wanted/needed to get there at 0759 - or depart at 1801?
If the operator is IFR/NVFR or Mercy flight or on a magic carpet, whatever they still would breach "council" planning rules by operating to the hospital out of hours........no matter what flight rules they operate under.
It's a dumb rule and should be scorned by the community served by the hospital as well as the aviation industry. Mind you, in the Australian context there were ongoing complaints about the establishment of the helipad at the "The Alfred" trauma centre. From neighbors up to 1 km distant.
Yeesh.
DD
I think the whole point relates to arbitrary planning rules.....like 8 - 6 ????? - What if you wanted/needed to get there at 0759 - or depart at 1801?
If the operator is IFR/NVFR or Mercy flight or on a magic carpet, whatever they still would breach "council" planning rules by operating to the hospital out of hours........no matter what flight rules they operate under.
It's a dumb rule and should be scorned by the community served by the hospital as well as the aviation industry. Mind you, in the Australian context there were ongoing complaints about the establishment of the helipad at the "The Alfred" trauma centre. From neighbors up to 1 km distant.
Yeesh.
DD
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Single pilot day VFR ops? That is a bit out of date. Our company pilots are close to being all Instrument Rated. I regularly get involved with transfers that use that rating.
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From: Beside the seaside
I don't know the Qld/NSW criteria, but AAV (Air Ambulance Victoria) have the 412EP operating to full accountability to rooftop pads.
Do the CAA in UK require this? I'd be surprised if many of their machines could achieve it, especially if (as is inferred here) they have to operate IFR at night with all the additional fuel that would require
Do the CAA in UK require this? I'd be surprised if many of their machines could achieve it, especially if (as is inferred here) they have to operate IFR at night with all the additional fuel that would require
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: UK
At an approximate guess, with 206 engines, London HEMS can probably land PC1 with 5 pob onto their (roughly sea level) pad, at up to 26 C, with about 1 hours fuel?
On our unit, most UK summer days, our old 206 engines could give us PC1 helipad at full fuel with 3 crew up to about 1000ft. (We'd usually knock off 200lb from max fuel to enable an immediate lift of 1 casualty.) We were never forced by payload to operate to 'clear area' dimensions.
On our unit, most UK summer days, our old 206 engines could give us PC1 helipad at full fuel with 3 crew up to about 1000ft. (We'd usually knock off 200lb from max fuel to enable an immediate lift of 1 casualty.) We were never forced by payload to operate to 'clear area' dimensions.
Avoid imitations
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
The decision to allow longer operating hours looks like a local planning issue, rather than a flying regs one.
If you look at the UK ANO IFR rules in detail there is actually a dispensation/let out clause for night ops below 3,000 ft. Although it doesn't use the term, it esentially means that we can fly "special VFR" in Class G at night whilst being deemed to be under IFR.
As for having to fly all night flights under IFR---I disagree with that too.... Lets fly IMC under IFR, but I see nothing wrong with flying VFR night flights....I have many hours at night and never encountered IMC, yet have come close to going inadvertent IMC during daylight. The accident rate of EMS flights in the US is not limited to night time.
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From: Downeast
Previous planning permission for use of the helipad was between 8am and 6pm, or from dawn to dusk, whichever is the shorter.
This shows the mindset in the UK.....NIMBY's rule!
As Helicopter EMS is done 24/7 in other places in the World....perhaps the UK CAA/JAA/EASA or whatever the current flavour today is....would find a way to facilitate that in the UK?
But as we all know...."If it was good enough for Wellington...."
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From: Devon
Night IFR AA jobs.
Jayteeto,
I appreciate that there are many AA pilots that are IR rated and you say that MOST of your company pilots are just this. You do hospital transfers sometimes under IFR rules (or part thereof) but do you transit IFR to a landing place, say a farmers field and then onto a hospital pad IFR?
When you do the hospital transfers under IFR are you two crew (pilots that is)?
Cheers.
Jon.
I appreciate that there are many AA pilots that are IR rated and you say that MOST of your company pilots are just this. You do hospital transfers sometimes under IFR rules (or part thereof) but do you transit IFR to a landing place, say a farmers field and then onto a hospital pad IFR?
When you do the hospital transfers under IFR are you two crew (pilots that is)?
Cheers.
Jon.
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
London HEMS are (AFAIK) the only UK HEMS regularly operating to a city roof top helipad. They achieve PC1 weight mainly due to the fact that their radius of operations is within the Greater London Area with a low fuel load. I'd be interested to know how far AAV can fly at PC1 helipad weights.
For the odd NETS team pickup prior to a neonatal the fuel load becomes more critical, but NETS tends to be a little more 'planned' than (for instance) an RTA and therefore able to cater for a refuel upstate if required to maintain PC1 capability.
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From: Beside the seaside
Thanks for that John. Where I worked we had to pick up the medical team from the hospital helipad before the retrieval (often a 2 hour round trip) so I doubt that even the EP would have been capable - the Classic was certainly not. The standard helipad profile was to sit in the hover at 95% TQ waiting for a gust of wind 
