Deck Landings
Gomer Pylot - I guess you don't get very big sea states in the GOM - tankers may be big enough to have their own time zones, magnetic variation and tides but they still float so if the sea goes up and down so will the tanker.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aus, Europe & everywhere in between
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cpt
I think the first thing you have to realise with some of the "ships" you will encounter (especially off Africa) is that some will not be up to scratch. Be ready for the really tight landing sites and non-trained deckcrew.
From what I understand, the UK CAP's only apply to UK registered machines so unless your S-76 is G-reg, the CAP don't apply.
You will get all of this on some landings so be prepared for it.
Good luck with your venture and keep your eyes open!!
I think the first thing you have to realise with some of the "ships" you will encounter (especially off Africa) is that some will not be up to scratch. Be ready for the really tight landing sites and non-trained deckcrew.
From what I understand, the UK CAP's only apply to UK registered machines so unless your S-76 is G-reg, the CAP don't apply.
...I myself instinctivly feel reluctant in such operation given these conditions....rotor hazard, lack of room, longer periods in height/speed diagramm,sloped decks, different levels of ground crew training level, vague deck certification.
Good luck with your venture and keep your eyes open!!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vessel take-off and landing
Hi all,
We are going to update the numbers in our OM, the numbers are the Max. pitch, roll, heave of the moving vessel or paltform when doing normal flight and typhoon EVAC. Any recommendations?
Thanks!
We are going to update the numbers in our OM, the numbers are the Max. pitch, roll, heave of the moving vessel or paltform when doing normal flight and typhoon EVAC. Any recommendations?
Thanks!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi mate,
We use 3 degrees of roll for night ops and 5 degrees of roll for day stuff..... having said that, we are landing on anything from 45000 to 210000 tonne ships so pitch/heave isn't usually a problem as we turn them stern to swell etc... hope this helps
Cheers
We use 3 degrees of roll for night ops and 5 degrees of roll for day stuff..... having said that, we are landing on anything from 45000 to 210000 tonne ships so pitch/heave isn't usually a problem as we turn them stern to swell etc... hope this helps
Cheers
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HeliEagle
Although 3 degrees might be a guideline, it would help if you told us what machine you intend to operate. A super-puma, high c of g and narrow wheel base, will generally roll over much earlier than a bell 212, lower c of g, skids etc....
Although 3 degrees might be a guideline, it would help if you told us what machine you intend to operate. A super-puma, high c of g and narrow wheel base, will generally roll over much earlier than a bell 212, lower c of g, skids etc....
I've landed the S76 with 10 degrees of pitch/roll and then seen it go to 12 deg whilst on the deck and it behaved OK, just need to be aware that if it's a wet steel deck it will slide after 10degrees in the fore/aft axis so you'll need to chock or sandbag the wheels. As for turning the AP's off or leaving them on, I think most SOP's have them off. Heave hasn't been much of a factor either as the undercarriage can take alot of punishment if you misjudge it.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S76 on moving deck in rough seas
I'm sure you wont need reminding that the rotor disk of the S76 can cause problems during passenger handling on a stable surface. Not sure I would want to handle passengers with a S76 on a deck moving 10 degrees!!
rotorque
Can you confirm that the 10 degrees was total movement. ie 5 degrees either side of vertical. 10 degrees either side sound pretty worrying!!
As for the AP. It should normally be OFF on any moving deck as soon as you land until just before lift otherwise the AP will be fighting the deck motion and causing big problems to anybody wandering around beneath the rotor disk....
Besides the pitch, roll and heave of the deck, you should also consider the maximum wind across the deck for safe handling of passengers. From 45 knots upwards on a smooth wet deck people can soon start sliding around.
I'm sure you wont need reminding that the rotor disk of the S76 can cause problems during passenger handling on a stable surface. Not sure I would want to handle passengers with a S76 on a deck moving 10 degrees!!
rotorque
Can you confirm that the 10 degrees was total movement. ie 5 degrees either side of vertical. 10 degrees either side sound pretty worrying!!
As for the AP. It should normally be OFF on any moving deck as soon as you land until just before lift otherwise the AP will be fighting the deck motion and causing big problems to anybody wandering around beneath the rotor disk....
Besides the pitch, roll and heave of the deck, you should also consider the maximum wind across the deck for safe handling of passengers. From 45 knots upwards on a smooth wet deck people can soon start sliding around.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank all
Teefor
"Not sure I would want to handle passengers with a S76 on a deck moving 10 degrees!!"
Yes, I agree with you. But for some particular cases, such as Typhoon evacation from a FPSO in a very bad condition(although our customers should do it early), maybe we can require the passengers creep into the helicopter.
Cheers
Teefor
"Not sure I would want to handle passengers with a S76 on a deck moving 10 degrees!!"
Yes, I agree with you. But for some particular cases, such as Typhoon evacation from a FPSO in a very bad condition(although our customers should do it early), maybe we can require the passengers creep into the helicopter.
Cheers
Example cited was definitely 10deg either side of vertical, referenced by the AHRS/EADI which is pretty accurate! I think we had an SOP limit of 6deg but it was a crew change day and you know those guys will always report pitch/roll/heave below limits when they want to go home. Once you're on the deck and you find it's going 12deg either way (i.e. double what was reported) and there're pax crawling around on the deck and the doors are open then your options are limited. But the aircraft was stable up to 10deg, although obviously I wouldn't write that as a limit in the SOP's because 10deg in pitch axis and the S76 will start to slide off a slick deck (vessel in question was a small seismic with aft deck).
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 76 would have to be one of the best helicopters for landing on moving decks. Most companies seem to use 10 degrees roll as max but if the occasion warrants it, this should not be taken to be an out & out max figure. I have seen a roll of 15 degrees with 25 degrees pitch up & 12 degrees pitch down with about 90 feet of swell, that figure came from the pressure alt, so it could have been higher. The nose wheel extended quite a bit on the pitch up but nevertheless the 76 sat very solidly. The deck had a rope net & the 76 did not slide at all. I don't think another machine could have handled those conditions as well as the 76. Obviously it was not easy for the pax to climb aboard, in fact they crawled in to avoid the blades. It was that or drown when the rig sank 30 minutes later.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Scotland
Age: 72
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just came back from the RV "Polarstern" last week. We where operating between S 35° and S 53° in the Atlantic Ocean (not the calmest area ;-))
Our cruise was from Punta Arenas (Chile) to Capetown (SA) and took about 9 weeks (no land in sight for 8,5 weeks)
There are two BO105 CBS 5 stationed on the vessel. We did a lot of flying for earth magnetic measurements with a sensor about 100' below the helicopter.
Take-offs and landings are performed up to about 30 kts relative wind. Without sling load we do it up to 40 kts. I didn'd really look what the bank of the ship was but I think something around 10° to 15° either side is ok for a 105. We have a rope net on the helideck and tie it down all the time when on the ground. I personally love flying from the ship.
Our cruise was from Punta Arenas (Chile) to Capetown (SA) and took about 9 weeks (no land in sight for 8,5 weeks)
There are two BO105 CBS 5 stationed on the vessel. We did a lot of flying for earth magnetic measurements with a sensor about 100' below the helicopter.
Take-offs and landings are performed up to about 30 kts relative wind. Without sling load we do it up to 40 kts. I didn'd really look what the bank of the ship was but I think something around 10° to 15° either side is ok for a 105. We have a rope net on the helideck and tie it down all the time when on the ground. I personally love flying from the ship.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the roll and pitch angles you claim to use are unbelievable. It is scary to see that some pilots have so little respect for operating limitations.
On this link:" http://www.oilc.org/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=127 " the following article can be found:
The copilot of a CHC Scotia Super Puma sustained a serious leg injury, and the aircraft was badly damaged, when it rolled over on the helideck of the drillship West Navion. The vessel was operating for BP and located some 6Onm west of Shetland when the incident occurred on 10 November. Tasked with picking up 12 passengers, these waiting to board for transportation back to Aberdeen, the aircraft had been refuelled rotors-running with the copilot supervising and the captain at the controls when the accident occurred. Sources advise that at the time there were some 35 knots of wind and a moderate sea state, plus a reported heave of some 10-12 feet for the bow-located helideck. This was within CAA- and client-approved criteria for operation to this type of vessel, but since the incident both CHC Scotia and Bristow have placed interim restrictions on movement levels. For drillships of this type, the previous pitch and roll of 2.5 degrees has been reduced to 1 degree and heave is down from four metres to two metres, with the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch, British health & safety agencies, BP and CHC Scotia carrying out investigations. The aircraft was taken to Norway and lifted ashore for detailed investigation at sister company CHC Helikopter Service's Stavanger/Sola engineering facility.
On this link:" http://www.oilc.org/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=127 " the following article can be found:
The copilot of a CHC Scotia Super Puma sustained a serious leg injury, and the aircraft was badly damaged, when it rolled over on the helideck of the drillship West Navion. The vessel was operating for BP and located some 6Onm west of Shetland when the incident occurred on 10 November. Tasked with picking up 12 passengers, these waiting to board for transportation back to Aberdeen, the aircraft had been refuelled rotors-running with the copilot supervising and the captain at the controls when the accident occurred. Sources advise that at the time there were some 35 knots of wind and a moderate sea state, plus a reported heave of some 10-12 feet for the bow-located helideck. This was within CAA- and client-approved criteria for operation to this type of vessel, but since the incident both CHC Scotia and Bristow have placed interim restrictions on movement levels. For drillships of this type, the previous pitch and roll of 2.5 degrees has been reduced to 1 degree and heave is down from four metres to two metres, with the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch, British health & safety agencies, BP and CHC Scotia carrying out investigations. The aircraft was taken to Norway and lifted ashore for detailed investigation at sister company CHC Helikopter Service's Stavanger/Sola engineering facility.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: all over?
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Know the movement limitations and stick to them. Have someone instruct you and don't rely too much on info from an internet forum - I really hope you are planning on doing this if you intend to start operating to and from a deck. Not something well suited to learning by trial and error. Depends a lot what type you are flying, size and type of deck, obstructions around the deck, weather etc.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where it rains a lot .....
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are we talking on a wheeled deck or deck on top of a building ?
I am thinking of getting a heliwagon ..... Welcome to HeliWagon The Ultimate Landing Dolly!
Is this classed as a deck as I too would like any advice offered and even willing for someone with experience to instruct me on it if needed.
I was looking at 16ft x 14ft powered and remote control for use with EC 120
Any thoughts ?
Nelly
I am thinking of getting a heliwagon ..... Welcome to HeliWagon The Ultimate Landing Dolly!
Is this classed as a deck as I too would like any advice offered and even willing for someone with experience to instruct me on it if needed.
I was looking at 16ft x 14ft powered and remote control for use with EC 120
Any thoughts ?
Nelly