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EC 135 crash in Austria

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EC 135 crash in Austria

Old 15th Apr 2011, 09:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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If the cab hit the trees, it should be easy to confirm with witness marks everywhere in that group of trees.

ILblog: the 135 doesnt auto like a stone?? It is like any other small/medium helo
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Old 15th Apr 2011, 09:37
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Well I attended my friend's funeral last tuesday, it was in his village. Good turn out and flypast of OAMTC and Police EC135. Sad day however the weather was the nicest for the week.

If its FOD that was one of the factors in causing the crash, then what something entered the inlet of the engines, something struck the MRB?

How many rotorcraft accidents over the last deacde have been attributed to FOD?

Going back to ADAC'S latest EC135 at Heli Expo 2010 in Houston, it was only on display cos of the new inlet filters installed.

Thanks
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Old 15th Apr 2011, 10:22
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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The engines inlet of EC135 is a maze by itself so I doubt FO could get near the inlet, however, that is just speculation in this Austrian tragedy.

135 compared to other small helicopters is like a brick (lets say compared to other SET). Most of the guys I fly with are afraid of the rotor limits when practicing AR and are not used to higher disc loading flare that is needed to get the ROD down to survivable limits.
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Old 15th Apr 2011, 11:03
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Phoinix: Agreed the inlets to the engines are near on impossible to allow FOD. Havingsaid that I have had a FOD issue twice with the engines due in hindsight to screws working loose in or near the transmission platform.

The EC135 is perfectly normal in auto. There is nothing sinister about its flt characteristics, it autos as one would expect from a high revver. I suppose its all down to what cabs one is used to flying. Its a good pilots aircraft.
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Old 15th Apr 2011, 19:41
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Very sad news.

I visited the Flug Polizei in 2008 and they were a very welcoming bunch of people.

I would just like to pass on my sympathy to the families, friends and collegues of those lost.

R.I.P.
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Old 15th Apr 2011, 22:43
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Thankyou Mr D, that means a lot. Yes they are very professional and friendly outfit and will continue to do so in spite of fortnights ago accident.
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Old 28th May 2011, 18:18
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Did they get the helicopter out of the water yet?
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Old 29th Apr 2012, 19:29
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Update

Possibly Altitude misjudged:

Es war kein Einsatzflug:
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Old 22nd Nov 2019, 18:29
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Hi all,

there is a reconstruction video online, which was made with information from the witnesses and on board data

https://www.heute.at/s/4-tote-bei-ab...video-49233079
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 09:36
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by thiago View Post
Possibly Altitude misjudged:

Es war kein Einsatzflug:
No, the German language article suggest that *height* was misjudged. (Low level flight over water)
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 12:07
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hot and Hi View Post

No, the German language article suggest that *height* was misjudged. (Low level flight over water)
it uses both terms, does it not? Flew below minimum height, and miscalculation of altitude.....
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 09:25
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Accident Report

Originally Posted by Flying Bull View Post
Hi all,

there is a reconstruction video online, which was made with information from the witnesses and on board data

https://www.heute.at/s/4-tote-bei-ab...video-49233079
Great find! The video is part of the 137-page accident report. It is an official video that simulates and sumamrises in video format the facts and data that the Austrian authorities have found during the extensive investigation. The Accident Report is illustrated, detailled and clear. However it is in German language, hence the video may be more accessible to many.

In short, the Austrians were showing around a Swiss police colleague, showing in him the lay of the land, seemingly in preparation of an important politicians' gathering in the area. The Swiss policeman was therefore crew, but not a tthe controls. The PIC (4,000 HRS TT, 400 on type; known - as always seem to be the case in such evernts - for his safety-driven and conservative attitude), took the a/c with 4 crew to a low-level 135 KTS flight just meters above the lake. Starting at 1,000 FT above lake level, he put the a/c in a 35 deg nose down attitude, 4,000 FT/min descent, accelerating to 120 KTS. Then reducing vertical descent speed (but not completely levelling out) further increased speed to 135 KTS.

It must have been spectacular. Due to glassy water conditions (all other possible causes were excluded) the PIC misjudegd his height above the water surface and continued to descent until a skid hit the water.

Weather was perfect, no wind (hence classy water surface), between 3,000 and 4,000 FT altitude ASL, OAT 10 deg C. So altitude had apparently nothing to do with the accident.

The a/c had a serviceable RAD ALT installed that seemingly was not consulted during this manoevre.
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 22:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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known - as always seem to be the case in such events - for his safety-driven and conservative attitude)
As you suggest - clearly not. I find in incredible that an experienced pilot who was flying in his own back yard and was well aware of the difficulty of judging depth perception over calm water would do such a thing - or that other experienced persons on board would sit there dumbly and allow it to happen?
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 12:41
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Thankyou FB and HandH for the links etc...am sure my late mate's widow and son will read the news link. Small comfort for what its worth.<br /><br />Wonder how many accidents where PIC misjudged altittude (esepcially over water) which led to accidents, over the years. I do recall EMS H135 crash around Potomac over a decade ago but think that was coming into contact with construction crane at night.<br /><br />Cheers
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 18:22
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopper2004 View Post
Thankyou FB and HandH for the links etc...am sure my late mate's widow and son will read the news link. Small comfort for what its worth.<br /><br />Wonder how many accidents where PIC misjudged altittude (esepcially over water) which led to accidents, over the years. I do recall EMS H135 crash around Potomac over a decade ago but think that was coming into contact with construction crane at night.<br /><br />Cheers
It is a very easy mistake to do if you do not plan or anticipate the problem, even when trying to land around lakes with glassy water can be difficult. At high speed, the problem get even worst, a lot worst, so you don't do that, whatever experience you have. Further away you are from the shore, worst it is. Unnecessary !
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 18:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Rad Alt and especially the bug, is a life saver when used properly. Like when over water.
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 20:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Now I wonder what the comments might have been had this been a PPL thrill seeking and trying to impress his pax?
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 07:31
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Do they have an audio rad alt warning associated with the bug?

Rad alts are great but you have to use them properly - as S76 heavy says, over water they are a lifesaver.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 09:17
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Interestingly the 135 I fly has a radalt but no audio warning.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 09:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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RAD ALT is the absolute last resort. If that saves your bacon you have already seriously "Fuc?ed up".

The issue with this accident is the fact that even though somebody was possibly "aware" of the danger the problem is the level of severity of the danger.

Glassy calm lakes on perfect days look totally benign and therefore apparently of no consequence yet the fact is the complete opposite. Speak to a floatplane pilot.

Whiteout and sector whiteout is another dangerous condition that also looks totally benign yet is extremely dangerous. Many have come unstuck with the most notable the Air NZ DC10 into Mt Erebus. Flight visibility ~ 300 miles.

We all get told about these "dangerous" flight conditions but nobody allocates a level of just how dangerous.
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