I've bent it - constructive advice needed please
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
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From: England
I've bent it - constructive advice needed please
Hi all,
Im a low hour instructor. I took a student out and without going into all the details I had a hard landing and have crimped the tail section. I hold my hands up, it was my inexperience that caused the incident.
The repair bill looks like it will be around 4k. I have, of course, offered to pay the insurance excess but now an considering the implications for my employer with increased future premiums and my position with regard to getting my next job/being employable due to having an accident on my record. 4k is a lot of money but if im unemployable it's a drop in the ocean.
I would really appreciate some advice from employers/anyone else in the know. I'd rather take a bigger hit now if it will help me in the future.
T
Im a low hour instructor. I took a student out and without going into all the details I had a hard landing and have crimped the tail section. I hold my hands up, it was my inexperience that caused the incident.
The repair bill looks like it will be around 4k. I have, of course, offered to pay the insurance excess but now an considering the implications for my employer with increased future premiums and my position with regard to getting my next job/being employable due to having an accident on my record. 4k is a lot of money but if im unemployable it's a drop in the ocean.
I would really appreciate some advice from employers/anyone else in the know. I'd rather take a bigger hit now if it will help me in the future.
T
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Mate,
If it were me I'd just let this run its course naturally. Schools have insurance EXACTLY for instances like this. To be honest with you I wouldn't even be offering to pay the excess and I don't think they should expect you to (although I'm sure they appreciate the sentiment/offer).
Remember, these things do happen from time to time with ab initio students...despite your best efforts.
This should have no impact on your current or future employability as either a pilot or instructor.
Keep your chin up.
HP
If it were me I'd just let this run its course naturally. Schools have insurance EXACTLY for instances like this. To be honest with you I wouldn't even be offering to pay the excess and I don't think they should expect you to (although I'm sure they appreciate the sentiment/offer).
Remember, these things do happen from time to time with ab initio students...despite your best efforts.
This should have no impact on your current or future employability as either a pilot or instructor.
Keep your chin up.
HP
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 959
Likes: 3
From: New Zealand
Yeah I would expect a flight school to be realistic about it - these things *will* happen, especially if they are taking a punt low hour instructors. Sounds like you are manning up on it and taking responsibility instead of blaming the student - that's a good start.
If there was negligence or carelessness on your part as opposed to just not being experienced/quick/lucky enough to handle whatever happened, then that would be a bit different.
I bet the old hands at your school have some skeletons in their closets and it didn't stop them getting to be where they are now.
If there was negligence or carelessness on your part as opposed to just not being experienced/quick/lucky enough to handle whatever happened, then that would be a bit different.
I bet the old hands at your school have some skeletons in their closets and it didn't stop them getting to be where they are now.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 1
From: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Mmmm ...
I'm with 'helopat' & 'krypton' on this one .... your employer should have insurance to cover this sort of event as a training organisation ... do not get involved in the repair/costs.
"!!!! HAPPENS" particularly as a (new) instructor .... and this incident is now one of your learning experiences ....
You and your student walked away .... thats the really important bit ... don't stress and don't let this incident affect your instructing negatively.
Good luck in the future .....
I'm with 'helopat' & 'krypton' on this one .... your employer should have insurance to cover this sort of event as a training organisation ... do not get involved in the repair/costs.
"!!!! HAPPENS" particularly as a (new) instructor .... and this incident is now one of your learning experiences ....
You and your student walked away .... thats the really important bit ... don't stress and don't let this incident affect your instructing negatively.
Good luck in the future .....
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 127
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From: AGL
I'm with the other posters on this. Good on you for not even trying to make excuses. These things do happen. Learn from it and continue to be open.
As a young pilot (long ago now unfortunately
) I learned more from listening to a few pilots that regaled me with their stuff ups and accidents and didn't hide them. There were others, with wrecks parked behind many a hangar, who never said a word. I learned nothing from them.
As a young pilot (long ago now unfortunately
) I learned more from listening to a few pilots that regaled me with their stuff ups and accidents and didn't hide them. There were others, with wrecks parked behind many a hangar, who never said a word. I learned nothing from them.
Last edited by EBCAU; 23rd March 2011 at 23:23.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 304
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From: Amazon Jungle
In my view every school has its procedures on how instructors should carry out emergency procedures and traning, I think if any of them were violated as an ex.: opening throttle at the wrong time, autoing at a wrong altitude, etc, and the list goes on... You could consider picking up the tab of the excess to save your job, but if you followed everything by the books and it went wrong, unfortunately your are just part of the statistics, and they should be ready for that.
I think that's what I would do.
DS
I think that's what I would do.
DS
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 670
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From: Beside the seaside
If I was your employer I would ask you what you think went wrong, what you would do next time and probably tell you to take more care. Then I would congratulate you on your honesty in owning up, taking the blame and offering to pay.
Then I would congratulate myself on hiring the right instructor.
Then I would congratulate myself on hiring the right instructor.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
The military refer to this sort of thing as "training risk". It's bound to occur once in a while. Happened to me once, 25 years ago, during an EOL. The student inexplicably and rapidly pulled full aft cyclic at about ten feet agl, instead of raising the collective to cushion the landing. I took control and thought I had saved the aircraft from damage but the frangible skid was slightly cracked.
I was made to fly multiple engine offs with a senior CFS instructor to ensure I met instructional standards. I obviously did because they made me carry on.
I was made to fly multiple engine offs with a senior CFS instructor to ensure I met instructional standards. I obviously did because they made me carry on.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: UK
All good advice.
These things happen. You have done the right thing. You'll learn from it and whilst it feels absolutely terrible right now you'll look back and have gained valuable experience.
An occurence like this doesn't make you a bad pilot, in actual fact the way you are dealing with it has already made you a better pilot. Taking responsibility shows you're just the kind of pilot a company would/should want to employ.
I know from experience (2 bent crossbeams whilst showing a student how good/bad I was). I learnt a lot and I still have a job, at the moment anyway!
Climb back on and good luck in your career.
These things happen. You have done the right thing. You'll learn from it and whilst it feels absolutely terrible right now you'll look back and have gained valuable experience.
An occurence like this doesn't make you a bad pilot, in actual fact the way you are dealing with it has already made you a better pilot. Taking responsibility shows you're just the kind of pilot a company would/should want to employ.
I know from experience (2 bent crossbeams whilst showing a student how good/bad I was). I learnt a lot and I still have a job, at the moment anyway!
Climb back on and good luck in your career.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 699
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From: 18 Degrees North
I wouldn't want to work for anyone who would take the 4k, because by taking it they demonstrate they don't value you.
The excess possibly, but nothing more, in my experience reasonable company's allow 1 accident without a fuss, but if you do it again, questions may be asked ! Be careful out there
The excess possibly, but nothing more, in my experience reasonable company's allow 1 accident without a fuss, but if you do it again, questions may be asked ! Be careful out there
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: England
Thankyou very much for all the replies chaps, I feel slightly better about things even though I'm still mad-as-hell with myself.
Just to clarify, the demonstration was a running t/o, toe of the left skid dug in, heli started to lift on the rear of the skids so I dropped the collective and the following bump caused the damage. On reflection, the damage appears to have been caused more by the fact I didn't get enough right pedal in as the crease is on the right of the boom rather than the underside.
Tough lesson to learn. Engineers reckon new tailboom so it will exceed 4k and is deffo an ensurance job. Going to stump up the excess as a goodwill gesture and try to move on and learn the lesson.
Thanks again for support/wisdom
T
Just to clarify, the demonstration was a running t/o, toe of the left skid dug in, heli started to lift on the rear of the skids so I dropped the collective and the following bump caused the damage. On reflection, the damage appears to have been caused more by the fact I didn't get enough right pedal in as the crease is on the right of the boom rather than the underside.
Tough lesson to learn. Engineers reckon new tailboom so it will exceed 4k and is deffo an ensurance job. Going to stump up the excess as a goodwill gesture and try to move on and learn the lesson.
Thanks again for support/wisdom
T
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: uk
Keep the money in your pocket. Thats what insurance is for. You make a little mistake and it can be fixed.
The main thing is you both walked away with no issues (well nothing a new pair of pants wouldn't sort out) no ones hurt and you have learnt from the flight.
Now if it happens again......Well
The main thing is you both walked away with no issues (well nothing a new pair of pants wouldn't sort out) no ones hurt and you have learnt from the flight.
Now if it happens again......Well
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 345
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From: Near the Mountains
Tommywarez
The man who did my CPL and FI Rating many years ago drummed it into me that "if you screw up, don't cover up!" He also drummed into me, following a small exceedance in an R22 which I immediately flagged to the owner, that it was absolutely not my place to pay for it. I took his advice and twenty years later, that owner and I remain very good friends!
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The man who did my CPL and FI Rating many years ago drummed it into me that "if you screw up, don't cover up!" He also drummed into me, following a small exceedance in an R22 which I immediately flagged to the owner, that it was absolutely not my place to pay for it. I took his advice and twenty years later, that owner and I remain very good friends!
22
