East Anglian Air Ambulance temporarily grounded/Longmint status

[ExMAGE]

TT, Who and Whirls
Not sure who you are refering to the orininal "click" reference was:

Quote:
seems to me that a small click of users are at work here.
Indeed, they'd be the ones who know, care or are involved in the situation.

Anyway Here's hoping that the administrators, if they exist, had a restful weekend and are ready to get deep into the books tomorrow.

EM

[cladosporangium]

Torquetalk,

Quite Excellent! I was giggling for ages about that. (no, I'm not Welsh)

I expect that most of us "got it" before it was so eloquently explained, but that too provided another attack of mirth thanks to Uhirls.

Well-done.

[ExMAGE]

Saw this on the Engineers forum

Was told MAGE went into admin 21/4/11, administrators are Begbies Traynor of EC3,

[996]

Considering all the financial difficulties in the group FAST seem to be doing extraordinarily well. Must be a sh1t load of punters learning to fly recently:

30/04/11 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL;GBP 751849

[Rotorswish]

And Pay Day Rolls round again..............

Well pay day has rolled round again, has anyone been paid. I heard a little rumour that some people are still waiting to be paid from previous months.

Maybe Fast should share some of then pennies with the rest of the group!!

[Whirlygig]

996, may I ask where you got that little gem? As far as I know, the Longmint Group are 7 months late in filing their accounts. Also, that figure may include the book value of aircraft owned (including any which have been mortgaged).

Cheers

Whirls

[996]

Whirls - companies house - Fast - simples.

[Whirlygig]

It's the issued share capital (all of which is now owned by Alan Mann Aviation Group Ltd) which represents the net figure of book value of helicopters owned less loans, plus cash, debtors and creditors.

However, what we don't know (as the last accounts to be filed were for 30 April 2009) is how much their losses have eaten into that share capital.

It really doesn't tell us anything.

Cheers

Whirls

[996]

Whirls your post has me a bit confused.

30/04/11 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL;GBP 751849

refers to Fast Helicopters not LMA or any other. A quick check of the same info for all the other companies shows what I find to be curious. But then I don't understand these things very well.

[TOTM2U]

996/Whirls

Edited as post won't format correctly, just a list now.
No coalface so got to dig something

*Longmint Group LTD (03732611)

*Longmint aviation LTD (03169347)

*South East Property Services LTD(01658096)

* Longmint LTD (02779240)

* Leagate (04051100)

* MEC Property Consultancy LTD (02833865)

* South East Property Services LTD (01658096)

*Proudale LTD (01349564)

*Skydrift (01965594)

*Mann Aviation Group (02709897)

*Sterling Helicopters (02326613)

*Alan Mann Helicopters LTD (01006211)

*Newick Park LTD (03105480)

*TAMS (Cant be Bothered looking)

* FAST Helicopters (as above)

* all comapny addresses are located at
HANGAR 4
SHOREHAM AIRPORT
SHOREHAM-BY-SEA
WEST SUSSEX
BN43 5FF


* ERINACEOUS
**ISG Occupancy
**Jordan's Residential Lettings
**Hercules Property Services
**Entente (formerly Francis Graves and Naismiths)
**Leach Rhodes Walker
**PPH Commercial
**Millar Kitching
**Mount Street Holdings
**Johnson Cooper
**Pier Management
**Tolley
**Rose Project Services
**Tom McNamara & Partners
**Egan Lawson
**John Nolan Associates
**Keelan Westall



* Large company failed (as opposed to a medium or small company)
** small companies bought and failed allegedly

anybody got anything on the Schweitzer court case.
I must give them a call with info
No coalface so got to dig something

[Whirlygig]

996, I was referring to FAST as well. FAST Helicopters is now entirely owned by Alan Mann Aviation Group Ltd, not Longmint AViation Ltd. OBviously we know they are all "connected" but there is now no direct ownership by Longmint.

The share capital of a company, as a stand-alone figure, doesn't really tell us much.

A company's balance sheet could typically look like

Fixed assets £2,000,000
Stock £ 300,00
Debtors £ 800,000
Cash £ 151,849
Creditors £( 600,000)
Long term loans £( 900,000)

Net worth £1,751,849

Represented by

Share capital £ 751,849
Profit reserves £1,000,000

Net worth £1,751,849


The same company, two years later, with the same level of trading could now look like
Fixed assets £2,000,000
Stock £ 300,00
Debtors £ 800,000
Cash £ 0
Creditors £( 600,000)
Long term loans £( 2,748,151)

Net worth £(248,151)

Represented by

Share capital £ 751,849
Losses to date £(1,000,000)

Net worth £(248,151)
The second is a company with the same share capital but negative net worth and trading illegally without the means to pay its debts.

Hope that helps,

Cheers

Whirls

[996]

Whirls /TOTM2U Thanks for that.

[Ackers Caffer]

996, Whirls and TOTM2U,

All good and interesting stuff - if a little heavy for the ordinary mortal.

Am I right in thinking that Longmint Aviation is now slithering into Alan Mann Aviation Group? (do hedgehogs slither ... or is it only snakes?)

On an accountancy matter, would it be considered normal business practice say, for a Company to be tranferring money (like about £3m say) to other 'companies' in it's group, therefore leaving it with little or no working capital and not being able pay its creditors or pay it's employees (on time at least) but pay its shareholders/directors a huge (over £1M say) dividend? Why would a company do this? Still, I expect an Auditor would raise an eyebrow, if not a Receiver!

Cheers
AC

[theloudone]

996, Whirls and TOTM2U,Ackers Caffer,

Guys/Gals, do i take it you work for any of the mentioned companies, or have an investment tied up in them ?

If not, why bother ? Is it really worth the effort !

[996]

theloudone: You may take nothing for granted, I cannot speak for the others - though I know their connection - but I am interested because I have a lot of friends and colleagues who are affected. Other than that, we need to know just in case these company cripplers 'nudge' in anywhere else. Fore warned is fore armed.

[996]

AC - they have been mentioning the AMAG since early last year so no doubt that activity has been underway for a while now. The only shareholders are BBC except in the case of Fast when IM is added to the list.

[Rigga]

As 996 says, in my meagre dealings even I was told of a BBC ambition of a centralisation of the greater "organisation", probably toward the Mann Group.

[theloudone]

996

"Ditto" in fact, i am probaly closer than you !

[Whirlygig]

Originally Posted by Ackers Caffer

would it be considered normal business practice say, for a Company to be tranferring money (like about £3m say)

Yes, quite common where the company loaning the cash can afford it.

to other 'companies' in it's group, therefore leaving it with little or no working capital and not being able pay its creditors or pay it's employees (on time at least)

Nope.

but pay its shareholders/directors a huge (over £1M say) dividend?

Doesn't quite work like that (or shouldn't within the Companies Act).

There could be one of two scenarios - Company A (a holding company) takes a loan from Company B (the subsidiary). This is just a cash transaction and recognised as a debtor in Company B and a creditor in Company A. It does not impact upon the Profit and Loss account. It is illegal to pay dividends to shareholders unless there is enough profit to cover that dividend.

The second situation is where Company A charges Company B a "management fee". This is quite normal within many holding & subsidiary company relationship as long as the management fee is representative of some genuine cross company charges. In this situation, Company A may make a profit and could pay dividends.

However, where Company A charges large fees for not much service, the HMR&C tends to get very excited as it is a way of creating tax losses in one company to be offset against other profits. Get it right, and you reduce your tax bill.

Yes, an auditor would also get quite excited which may be why the statutory accounts are 7 months late. A receiver/liquidator would also be delving as deep as they can in the circumstances and may well report company fraud to BIS (was BERR, was DTI, was Board of Trade).

theloudone, I wouldn't worry about other peoples' motives for posting here - not worth the bother.

Cheers

Whirls

[996]

With all these legal dealing going on I reckon the groups legal team are working very hard. Hmmmm let me see now I wonder who that might be then? Bet the fees for services are healthy as they once were to such an extent during the Erinaceous period that a few eyebrows were raised.