Australian floods: helicopters involved
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Good question YBB 
At the end of the day its gonna be your call as PIC. For me personally there's no way I'm gonna be filming people die if I am in a position to perform a successful rescue even if it meant I wouldn't have a job when I got back to base! I'd rather keep a family intact than stay with a firm who wants to follow the rule book or play pessimism but that's just me.
What I can say from past experience is that carrying-out spontaneous rescue missions in a non-rescue equipped ship can be a real challenge chief among which (for me) is usually the lack of an experienced crewmen.
With a crewmen who knows the bird I can devote more time to scanning the surrounding environment and not worry about the embarkation process which, if mis-managed, could quickly turn south.
It will always be a decision you'll have to make there and then based on your specific circumstances. Not a pursuit that I would recommend for freshmen or newbies though.
HM
At the end of the day its gonna be your call as PIC. For me personally there's no way I'm gonna be filming people die if I am in a position to perform a successful rescue even if it meant I wouldn't have a job when I got back to base! I'd rather keep a family intact than stay with a firm who wants to follow the rule book or play pessimism but that's just me.
What I can say from past experience is that carrying-out spontaneous rescue missions in a non-rescue equipped ship can be a real challenge chief among which (for me) is usually the lack of an experienced crewmen.
With a crewmen who knows the bird I can devote more time to scanning the surrounding environment and not worry about the embarkation process which, if mis-managed, could quickly turn south.
It will always be a decision you'll have to make there and then based on your specific circumstances. Not a pursuit that I would recommend for freshmen or newbies though.
HM
YBB
I guess they may be a little busy......I know when I am busy on fires, the last thing I want to do at night is post pictures on here. Give them time.
To add to what to what HM has already stated, there are numerous factors that come into play. Firstly, the pilots may not feel confident enough to try a rescue without creating undue risk to the helicopter and crew. Sometimes, sad though it may be to watch, it is better to be cautious and NOT become a part of the problem.
Secondly, there may not be the room on the aircraft or it may not have the lifting capabilities.
Thirdly, as HM eluded, there may be company rules which individual pilots need to make their own decision as to whether to break those rules. Personally, I am with HM and feel that in a life or death situation, it is easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
Still very little news and pictures coming through from Australian Rotorheads on this disaster.
Over the years I have read (and watched) when news helicopters take direct action in order to preserve life.
Is there a general rule among ENG pilots about this and what and when are the exceptions please?
Is there a general rule among ENG pilots about this and what and when are the exceptions please?
Secondly, there may not be the room on the aircraft or it may not have the lifting capabilities.
Thirdly, as HM eluded, there may be company rules which individual pilots need to make their own decision as to whether to break those rules. Personally, I am with HM and feel that in a life or death situation, it is easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
According to another source.
The channel 7 AS350 spotted the car and filmed this footage it quickly RTB to offload the media crew and pick up emergency service personnel. They returned to the scene but could not relocate the car.
The channel 7 AS350 spotted the car and filmed this footage it quickly RTB to offload the media crew and pick up emergency service personnel. They returned to the scene but could not relocate the car.
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Mining magnate Clive Palmer has criticised the government's flood response after he was forced to save his staff using a company helicopter.
Mining magnate Clive Palmer used his company helicopter to save 19 people stranded by floods | Courier Mail
Mining magnate Clive Palmer used his company helicopter to save 19 people stranded by floods | Courier Mail
MINING magnate Clive Palmer has criticised the government's flood response after he was forced to stage his own rescue effort with a company helicopter.
Mr Palmer said he ordered his company chopper to rescue 19 people from floodwaters in Moore, near Kilcoy, after the State Emergency Service didn't respond to calls for rescue.
The 19 included three staff members at his Lowood horse breeding facility, who became stranded on the farmhouse roof after flash floods swept through the property on Tuesday afternoon.
``An extra metre and it would have got them. They were very lucky - they should have got a quicker response,'' he said.
``The important lesson is we need fast reaction times and not slow ones.''
Mr Palmer said his staff had become stranded around 2.30pm when a wall of water washed through the property.
The workers took the horses into barns and made their way to the roof of the main house, where they put a rescue call into the State Emergency Services.
More than 12 hours later, after the SES still hadn't responded, Mr Palmer took matters into his own hands and ordered the company helicopter out of its base at Caloundra to go pick the three men up.
``I made the call at four in the morning to get our guys in because we were worried they'd drown,'' he said.Mr Palmer said on the way back to base, the pilot noticed another group of 16 people, including children, waiting for rescue on the roof of a local school.
``They'd been waiting for a day for an evacuation too, so our chopper went back and shuttled them all off,'' he said.
Mr Palmer said his staff and the other evacuees were lucky that they had access to a private helicopter, after the SES failed to show up.
``There must be stories out there of people that didn't have that,'' he said.
He said the current government resources available for search and rescue were inadequate to deal with a disaster of this scope, and the government should instead have a fleet of light choppers that can land on rooves to rescue people directly.
``I don't mean to criticise anybody really, but I think the government in the future should spend more money on choppers and less money on roads,'' he said.
``I think we need probably 10-15 in the state.''
He said he personally had lost around $1.8 million of farm equipment and about 20 horses had drowned in the flash flood.
``I don't think that really matters as much as the human life,'' he said.
``That's got to be the priority for the community, and the government and everyone.''
Mr Palmer said he ordered his company chopper to rescue 19 people from floodwaters in Moore, near Kilcoy, after the State Emergency Service didn't respond to calls for rescue.
The 19 included three staff members at his Lowood horse breeding facility, who became stranded on the farmhouse roof after flash floods swept through the property on Tuesday afternoon.
``An extra metre and it would have got them. They were very lucky - they should have got a quicker response,'' he said.
``The important lesson is we need fast reaction times and not slow ones.''
Mr Palmer said his staff had become stranded around 2.30pm when a wall of water washed through the property.
The workers took the horses into barns and made their way to the roof of the main house, where they put a rescue call into the State Emergency Services.
More than 12 hours later, after the SES still hadn't responded, Mr Palmer took matters into his own hands and ordered the company helicopter out of its base at Caloundra to go pick the three men up.
``I made the call at four in the morning to get our guys in because we were worried they'd drown,'' he said.Mr Palmer said on the way back to base, the pilot noticed another group of 16 people, including children, waiting for rescue on the roof of a local school.
``They'd been waiting for a day for an evacuation too, so our chopper went back and shuttled them all off,'' he said.
Mr Palmer said his staff and the other evacuees were lucky that they had access to a private helicopter, after the SES failed to show up.
``There must be stories out there of people that didn't have that,'' he said.
He said the current government resources available for search and rescue were inadequate to deal with a disaster of this scope, and the government should instead have a fleet of light choppers that can land on rooves to rescue people directly.
``I don't mean to criticise anybody really, but I think the government in the future should spend more money on choppers and less money on roads,'' he said.
``I think we need probably 10-15 in the state.''
He said he personally had lost around $1.8 million of farm equipment and about 20 horses had drowned in the flash flood.
``I don't think that really matters as much as the human life,'' he said.
``That's got to be the priority for the community, and the government and everyone.''
Can you believe that some people are complaining about Helicopter noise at a time like this
"QLD Police We ask everybody to please be patient with army personnel, vehicles and helicopters.
We've been advised that there have been complaints about the noise of the helicopters, and also about army vehicles being parked in Brisbane streets.
These people are working hard to help us deal with the flood, and we ask you all to be patient and understanding as they do their jobs"
"QLD Police We ask everybody to please be patient with army personnel, vehicles and helicopters.
We've been advised that there have been complaints about the noise of the helicopters, and also about army vehicles being parked in Brisbane streets.
These people are working hard to help us deal with the flood, and we ask you all to be patient and understanding as they do their jobs"
also about army vehicles being parked in Brisbane streets
Maybe there was a complaint from a Greens voter - those muppets complain about anything..
This morning the sky above the CBD were alive with choppers - even a couple of 300's in the mix. Good to see..
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I remember a tale from 1974 up in the Gulf out of Normanton where a Bell47 still fitted with the duals was pressed into urgent service and picking people of the roof of station homesteads caused some anxious moments when they used them for grab handles climbing in.
It will always be a decision you'll have to make there and then based on your specific circumstances. Not a pursuit that I would recommend for freshmen or newbies though.
re this Lockyer episode, almost certainly the coroner will be poking around so everyone will be making statements or preparing to. Just make sure the ops manual is dusted off, and there's no mug pilots around who says that "what's in the ops manual no one takes notice of that" ops manual will need to be kept up to date at the date of incident, I.E. if an inquest takes a long time to convene, use one of your other copies.
cheers tet
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Lots of different stories beginning to emerge now depicting individual acts of courage and sacrifice including this heart-wrenching event:
Australia floods: swept to his death, the boy who told rescuers to 'save my brother first' - Telegraph
Australia floods: swept to his death, the boy who told rescuers to 'save my brother first' - Telegraph
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Good to see the EMQ fellas doing the business on the news last night - good luck - hope to hear your stories next time you're in Europe for recurrent training!
The media helo's were filming and then departed to assist in getting swift water rescuers to the scene. The car capsized and all three went in the drink. The mum and son were found alive several kilometers away wet but alive. The father is missing presumed dead.
pilot interviews
First hand stories from the rescue crews.
Including an account of 6 people rescued by winch, late in the day with crew wearing NVG.
Chopper crews reveal rescue heartbreak - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Mickjoebill
Including an account of 6 people rescued by winch, late in the day with crew wearing NVG.
Chopper crews reveal rescue heartbreak - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Mickjoebill
Last edited by mickjoebill; 17th Jan 2011 at 23:55.
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International award for Qld flood saviours
International award for Qld flood saviours
Helicopter crews who plucked dozens of people from roofs, cars and trees after the "inland tsunami" struck Grantham in southeast Queensland have been recognised with an international "Rescue of the Year" award.
The award was announced at a helicopter rescue conference in Orlando, Florida.
Emergency Management Queensland (EMQ) helicopter crews saved 43 lives as they operated in foul weather after the torrent swept down the Lockyer Valley on January 10, sweeping all before it.
Those who manned EMQ Rescue 500 and Rescue 510 edged out other rescuers from around the world, including helicopter crews who went in under fire to evacuate the wounded in Afghanistan.
EMQ pilot Peter Row, who is at the conference, said he was totally surprised at the award.
"I didn't know anything about it, it was a bit of a shock to me really," he told AAP from Florida.
Mr Row piloted Rescue 510, which happened to be in Brisbane as the tragedy unfolded in Grantham, where 17 people died. ...
The award was announced at a helicopter rescue conference in Orlando, Florida.
Emergency Management Queensland (EMQ) helicopter crews saved 43 lives as they operated in foul weather after the torrent swept down the Lockyer Valley on January 10, sweeping all before it.
Those who manned EMQ Rescue 500 and Rescue 510 edged out other rescuers from around the world, including helicopter crews who went in under fire to evacuate the wounded in Afghanistan.
EMQ pilot Peter Row, who is at the conference, said he was totally surprised at the award.
"I didn't know anything about it, it was a bit of a shock to me really," he told AAP from Florida.
Mr Row piloted Rescue 510, which happened to be in Brisbane as the tragedy unfolded in Grantham, where 17 people died. ...
Helicopter pilot who saved 28 lives during flash flooding in Grantham calls for greater funding for helicopter rescue
Residents evacuated from Grantham earlier this year as Queensland experienced the worst floods in 100 years
Helicopter pilot who saved 28 lives during flash flooding in Grantham calls for greater funding for helicopter rescue | The Australian
Residents evacuated from Grantham earlier this year as Queensland experienced the worst floods in 100 years
A HELICOPTER pilot who saved 28 lives during the horrendous flash flooding of the Lockyer Valley town of Grantham has urged governments to upgrade Queensland's helicopter fleet, arguing saving lives is more important than money.
Giving evidence before Floods Commissioner Cate Holmes in Toowoomba this afternoon, captain Mark Kempton urged the Bligh government to commit approximately $600,000 per machine to increase the carrying capacity of Emergency Management Queenslands helicopters.
Captain Kempton told the inquiry that EMQ helicopter crews saved 43 lives on January 10 and 11, when an 8m wall of water crashed through the Lockyer Valley killing at least 17 local men, women and children.
"I would defy any person to stand in front of me and say that someone they knew is not worth the $30m that it might cost to run a helicopter operation," he said outside the inquiry.
"A life is worth every single cent that you would have to spend to save it."
Captain Kempton said he wanted the helicopters' carrying capacities upgraded from 6.4 tons to 6.8, at a projected cost of $600,000 per aircraft.
He said the upgrade would allow an aircraft to carry more crew, a diverse range of equipment or additional fuel to increase its operational time.
Mr Kempton recounted how distressed locals, stranded on the roofs of collapsing buildings, refused to be rescued. Instead, they pointed in the direction of their fellow citizens who were caught up trees or struggling in the roaring floodwaters.
"The Aussie spirit was just incredible there," he said.
"You had people who had lost everything, their homes, they were sitting on the remnants on buildings in some cases and as we came towards them to pick them up they were literally saying 'No, not me. You've got to get that person over there'."
In saving the 28 residents, Captain Kempton's crew braved sheet lightning and cloud cover that wrapped their helicopter in "a white cocoon".
The inquiry will continue this afternoon with evidence from Grantham woman Sarah Norman, whose mother and father were swept to their deaths on January 10.
Giving evidence before Floods Commissioner Cate Holmes in Toowoomba this afternoon, captain Mark Kempton urged the Bligh government to commit approximately $600,000 per machine to increase the carrying capacity of Emergency Management Queenslands helicopters.
Captain Kempton told the inquiry that EMQ helicopter crews saved 43 lives on January 10 and 11, when an 8m wall of water crashed through the Lockyer Valley killing at least 17 local men, women and children.
"I would defy any person to stand in front of me and say that someone they knew is not worth the $30m that it might cost to run a helicopter operation," he said outside the inquiry.
"A life is worth every single cent that you would have to spend to save it."
Captain Kempton said he wanted the helicopters' carrying capacities upgraded from 6.4 tons to 6.8, at a projected cost of $600,000 per aircraft.
He said the upgrade would allow an aircraft to carry more crew, a diverse range of equipment or additional fuel to increase its operational time.
Mr Kempton recounted how distressed locals, stranded on the roofs of collapsing buildings, refused to be rescued. Instead, they pointed in the direction of their fellow citizens who were caught up trees or struggling in the roaring floodwaters.
"The Aussie spirit was just incredible there," he said.
"You had people who had lost everything, their homes, they were sitting on the remnants on buildings in some cases and as we came towards them to pick them up they were literally saying 'No, not me. You've got to get that person over there'."
In saving the 28 residents, Captain Kempton's crew braved sheet lightning and cloud cover that wrapped their helicopter in "a white cocoon".
The inquiry will continue this afternoon with evidence from Grantham woman Sarah Norman, whose mother and father were swept to their deaths on January 10.
I'll get me coat......
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Private copters emergency saviours | Courier Mail
LACK of air support has emerged as a key issue in the flood inquiry as a regional police officer revealed he relied on privately owned choppers on at least two occasion to do his job during the deluge.
The inquiry moved to Dalby yesterday to examine disaster management in the bush after thousands of residents suffered inundation on the Darling Downs in the dying days of 2010.
Blurred lines between police and emergency services boundaries were examined, along with problems with flood warning systems.
Farmer Glen Taylor, who lives outside the tiny town of Condamine, used the forum to blast bureaucracy which he believes has overburdened localised disaster management with petty rules.
"Regulation is just about choking all these people," he said.
The rift between city and country was also evident in the inquiry, as one police officer noted flood information was available on a website.
"We're not always on computers," declared a voice from the public gallery.
Police Sergeant Ben Wiltshire, officer in charge of the Miles police station, highlighted one of the most serious problems of regional flooding when he told of hitching rides on choppers to help out in the flood.
At 11am on December 30, he was phoned by a resident of Condamine who advised water was knee-deep in the pub and large parts of the town were in danger of inundation.
Sgt Wiltshire was told a chopper from M1 Helicopters in Roma had landed in Miles to refuel and asked if he could hitch a lift.
"I spoke with the manager, Peter Clatworthy, who approved travel to Condamine without charge," he said.
Sgt Wiltshire said without the generosity of Mr Clatworthy, the subsequent evacuation of the entire town of Condamine, which he helped manage, would have been more difficult and dangerous. During the evacuation he relied exclusively on private or military owned choppers, and could not communicate directly with the pilots nor issue instructions.On another occasion during the floods, Sgt Wiltshire said a privately owned chopper landed near him and the pilot walked over and advised him he had 20 minutes of fuel left if a chopper was needed for flood work. Sgt Wiltshire used the time to check on people in vulnerable areas.
"But it was just luck," he said.
Sgt Wiltshire said dedicated police choppers were needed to address the issue.
The inquiry resumes in Toowoomba next Wednesday.
The inquiry moved to Dalby yesterday to examine disaster management in the bush after thousands of residents suffered inundation on the Darling Downs in the dying days of 2010.
Blurred lines between police and emergency services boundaries were examined, along with problems with flood warning systems.
Farmer Glen Taylor, who lives outside the tiny town of Condamine, used the forum to blast bureaucracy which he believes has overburdened localised disaster management with petty rules.
"Regulation is just about choking all these people," he said.
The rift between city and country was also evident in the inquiry, as one police officer noted flood information was available on a website.
"We're not always on computers," declared a voice from the public gallery.
Police Sergeant Ben Wiltshire, officer in charge of the Miles police station, highlighted one of the most serious problems of regional flooding when he told of hitching rides on choppers to help out in the flood.
At 11am on December 30, he was phoned by a resident of Condamine who advised water was knee-deep in the pub and large parts of the town were in danger of inundation.
Sgt Wiltshire was told a chopper from M1 Helicopters in Roma had landed in Miles to refuel and asked if he could hitch a lift.
"I spoke with the manager, Peter Clatworthy, who approved travel to Condamine without charge," he said.
Sgt Wiltshire said without the generosity of Mr Clatworthy, the subsequent evacuation of the entire town of Condamine, which he helped manage, would have been more difficult and dangerous. During the evacuation he relied exclusively on private or military owned choppers, and could not communicate directly with the pilots nor issue instructions.On another occasion during the floods, Sgt Wiltshire said a privately owned chopper landed near him and the pilot walked over and advised him he had 20 minutes of fuel left if a chopper was needed for flood work. Sgt Wiltshire used the time to check on people in vulnerable areas.
"But it was just luck," he said.
Sgt Wiltshire said dedicated police choppers were needed to address the issue.
The inquiry resumes in Toowoomba next Wednesday.
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Flood rescue pilot fights back tears giving evidence into Grantham disaster
Flood rescue pilot fights back tears giving evidence into Grantham disaster 
STANDBY CHOPPER: Emergency Management Queensland southwest regional director Robert Bundy told the commission of inquiry into January's flood disaster he was puzzled by the decision to send a helicopter from Townsville to St George despite it not being requested. Picture: Nathan Richter Source: The Courier-Mail
EMOTIONAL RECOLLECTION: When describing how stranded residents drew the rescue crew's attention to those in greater need during Grantham's flood disaster, Mark Kempton choked back tears. Picture: Nathan Richter Source: The Courier-Mail
THE helicopter pilot who rescued stricken Grantham residents from floodwater, trees and rooftops has choked back tears while reliving his experiences of January 10.
Emergency Management Queensland rescue pilot Mark Kempton has started giving evidence at the commission of inquiry in to the disaster.
Mr Kempton told the inquiry he and his crew arrived at Grantham on the afternoon of January 10 to find a "massive amount" of water, debris and damaged buildings.
"On the structures that remained there were just people dotted on rooftops all over the place," he said.
"We were very conscious of the fact we didn't want to miss anyone."
Flood inquiry: The story so far
End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
When describing how stranded residents drew the rescue crew's attention to those in greater need, Mr Kempton became emotional.
"That was extraordinary because these people were trapped on roofs," he said.
"It was just a very difficult scenario to see those people who were trapped ... to see these people were kind and thoughtful enough to say 'don't get me, get them'."
Earlier, the inquiry heard a government emergency helicopter was sent from Townsville to St George during the summer flood crisis in spite of the fact local authorities had no immediate need for the aircraft.
The revelation came during the cross examination of Emergency Management Queensland's regional director of southwest Queensland Robert Bundy.
Under cross examination Mr Bundy said he was puzzled by the decision to send the helicopter and made inquiries to Brisbane, from where the directive had come.
Mr Bundy said he was told "it was just there as a standby".
"It wasn't requested (locally), no," he said.
When asked how he felt a future flood event could be better handled Mr Bundy said he believed a greater emphasis should be placed on local knowledge, pointing to an incident where decision makers in Brisbane wanted to send 60 SES volunteers in to Condamine - a "proud" township of just 40 or 50 houses.
"We get a lot of decisions made in Brisbane, or elsewhere, that don't really understand the conditions at the time," he said.
"The focus needs to rely on local government.
"Local government is the best placed level of government to make those decisions."
Mr Bundy said there had also been issues attracting SES volunteers in some areas, such as Dalby.
- Andrew MacDonald
- From:The Courier-Mail
- April 29, 201110:48AM
STANDBY CHOPPER: Emergency Management Queensland southwest regional director Robert Bundy told the commission of inquiry into January's flood disaster he was puzzled by the decision to send a helicopter from Townsville to St George despite it not being requested. Picture: Nathan Richter Source: The Courier-Mail
EMOTIONAL RECOLLECTION: When describing how stranded residents drew the rescue crew's attention to those in greater need during Grantham's flood disaster, Mark Kempton choked back tears. Picture: Nathan Richter Source: The Courier-Mail
THE helicopter pilot who rescued stricken Grantham residents from floodwater, trees and rooftops has choked back tears while reliving his experiences of January 10.
Emergency Management Queensland rescue pilot Mark Kempton has started giving evidence at the commission of inquiry in to the disaster.
Mr Kempton told the inquiry he and his crew arrived at Grantham on the afternoon of January 10 to find a "massive amount" of water, debris and damaged buildings.
"On the structures that remained there were just people dotted on rooftops all over the place," he said.
"We were very conscious of the fact we didn't want to miss anyone."
Flood inquiry: The story so far
End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
When describing how stranded residents drew the rescue crew's attention to those in greater need, Mr Kempton became emotional.
"That was extraordinary because these people were trapped on roofs," he said.
"It was just a very difficult scenario to see those people who were trapped ... to see these people were kind and thoughtful enough to say 'don't get me, get them'."
Earlier, the inquiry heard a government emergency helicopter was sent from Townsville to St George during the summer flood crisis in spite of the fact local authorities had no immediate need for the aircraft.
The revelation came during the cross examination of Emergency Management Queensland's regional director of southwest Queensland Robert Bundy.
Under cross examination Mr Bundy said he was puzzled by the decision to send the helicopter and made inquiries to Brisbane, from where the directive had come.
Mr Bundy said he was told "it was just there as a standby".
"It wasn't requested (locally), no," he said.
When asked how he felt a future flood event could be better handled Mr Bundy said he believed a greater emphasis should be placed on local knowledge, pointing to an incident where decision makers in Brisbane wanted to send 60 SES volunteers in to Condamine - a "proud" township of just 40 or 50 houses.
"We get a lot of decisions made in Brisbane, or elsewhere, that don't really understand the conditions at the time," he said.
"The focus needs to rely on local government.
"Local government is the best placed level of government to make those decisions."
Mr Bundy said there had also been issues attracting SES volunteers in some areas, such as Dalby.
Mark seems like a thoroughly decent chap and my guess (based on the priorities displayed in his responses) is that he is a probably a damn good driver too.
I hope the outcome of the reviews on Grantham result in a better understanding of how airborne assets might be better managed in the future under what were, undoubtedly, unique circumstances.
The episode underscores the vital role of the helicopter in such scenarios - coming to the aid of those in need when absolutely nothing else will do.
I hope the outcome of the reviews on Grantham result in a better understanding of how airborne assets might be better managed in the future under what were, undoubtedly, unique circumstances.
The episode underscores the vital role of the helicopter in such scenarios - coming to the aid of those in need when absolutely nothing else will do.