EOLs
Have to check in the flare in a 500 otherwise you will exceed max rrpm, espically if you " stand it on its tail" The technique for a 500 is the same as for a 300, she comes in a bit faster with slightly higher rate of descent but no problem really. Obviously not the same as a 206 but still quite easy
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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EOLs in a 206 are hardly challenging, watch an R22 doing them with a couple of fatties inside and you will see "half a crown sixpence"
I had four up, it was Indonesia, (+33, 85%), the engine failed when we were at 700' and I only had a small clear area to go, didn't fancy the trees! (Aircraft flew again as soon as spares arrived).
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Thanks for the note Savoia and I'm so glad you produced a good EOL to preserve my old friend, G-AYTF. I do have a piccy of her taken at Leeds Castle parked inside the moat when she was in the JPS all black & gold JPS colours, but having just moved home, it is in storage. But no doubt it was dear old 'Nobby Clarke's specialised EOL technique you learned that saved that particular day. And yes ... I do actually log every practice 'full stop to the ground' engine-off landing and having been instructing now since 1974, my log book has recorded 3,868 events as at 30 November. Oddly in my 14,250 hours, I am still waiting for the real thing ... and I bet it gets me when I least want it. But being three quarters retired, I may just get to beat the odds.
Back to the many EOL techniques discussed here. Naturally the use of any amount of 'up' collective drops the RRPM, but that doesn't take into account the advantage of combining the early use of collective with cyclic flare. Used by itself, a firm aft cyclic can ... as noted here ... take Nr beyond the max PFM limit, especially so at high a/c weights, but using the combined flare/collective method allows the pilot to use a firmer flare where the rrpm is held at the max Nr figure using collective. With good co-ordination of the two controls, a zero speed touch down can usually be obtained if there is any sort of breeze. At lower a/c weight, no breeze is necessary.
Like many of the 'old uns,' I've been lucky enough to take the old Fort Worth pilot course where the Bell aces showed me the Jetranger technique from 175 feet AGL and a zero ASI reading. Firm lever down gets the airflow under the horizontal stabilisor which pitches the nose down sharply without any cyclic control change by the pilot. Zero speed becomes 60 knots by 75 feet AGL allowing the standard flare recovery for a zero speed skids-on landing.
Bell also demo'd the EOL from a 40 foot AGL hover ... lever rapidly fully down and back up again at around 10 feet. Useful for the air photo pilots who get asked to manoeuvre low level.
'Elf n Safety ... Don't try this at home without a type experienced instructor. AND avoid a high speed run-on landing on the 206. Them pesky transmission lamiflex links attached to the M/R transmission are around $2,500 at the last count. The standard pre-flight check on the tell-tale 'spigot' will reveal all.
Keep the ideas coming please, Dennis Kenyon.
Back to the many EOL techniques discussed here. Naturally the use of any amount of 'up' collective drops the RRPM, but that doesn't take into account the advantage of combining the early use of collective with cyclic flare. Used by itself, a firm aft cyclic can ... as noted here ... take Nr beyond the max PFM limit, especially so at high a/c weights, but using the combined flare/collective method allows the pilot to use a firmer flare where the rrpm is held at the max Nr figure using collective. With good co-ordination of the two controls, a zero speed touch down can usually be obtained if there is any sort of breeze. At lower a/c weight, no breeze is necessary.
Like many of the 'old uns,' I've been lucky enough to take the old Fort Worth pilot course where the Bell aces showed me the Jetranger technique from 175 feet AGL and a zero ASI reading. Firm lever down gets the airflow under the horizontal stabilisor which pitches the nose down sharply without any cyclic control change by the pilot. Zero speed becomes 60 knots by 75 feet AGL allowing the standard flare recovery for a zero speed skids-on landing.
Bell also demo'd the EOL from a 40 foot AGL hover ... lever rapidly fully down and back up again at around 10 feet. Useful for the air photo pilots who get asked to manoeuvre low level.
'Elf n Safety ... Don't try this at home without a type experienced instructor. AND avoid a high speed run-on landing on the 206. Them pesky transmission lamiflex links attached to the M/R transmission are around $2,500 at the last count. The standard pre-flight check on the tell-tale 'spigot' will reveal all.
Keep the ideas coming please, Dennis Kenyon.
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oK crab, i'll go quietly i knew I had bombed that last post when I was trying to go to sleep, but been a bit busy to get back and correct it. lifting the collective will reduce nr.
however please bear with me, momentarily that is not the case, when recovering from an overspeed and you jerk the collective up, there is an agonising half second where the nr does not follow the rule book at all. in fact speaking from the experience of every mustering pilot which might happen to them hundreds of times in a the one or two very windy and choppy days in the year at low level with gusts to 30 35 knots if stationary in the hover the nett effect is more collective - more wind over the sails-, the nr increases, because the blades are being flapped up, the governor reacts by reducing MAP by up to 3.5" then of course increases to counter the then resultant effect of reducing rpm. this is a 2 to 3 second sequence somedays this occurs every twenty seconds or so.
In my case i usually turn the governor off as I can't stand the feeling of tearing the guts out of engine, drive belts and xmon every twenty seconds.
back to EOL's. the most important thing Dennis is to make sure before you start teaching them that the student understands the best range airspeed from the AFM, and will acquire it immmediately; where the wind is coming from (even when he is asleep) is going to continually acquire suitable EOL sites as his flights unfold, and can deomonstrate going into them in an into wind final appoach; how to get the collective fully down sharply and will check his RRPM when done; and will tell someone about it.
put that together, many don't, then they may get close to the ground in a safe manner.
Then, further previous reference to the AFM will tell them the best A/S to be at before the termination stage, flare etc.
their capacity to accomplish that last bit will be predicted by the amount of time their ab-initio instructor spent with his hands off the controls rather than on them. it is very irksome at the operational level to have to allow and encourage people to find their own way when it should have been done right at the beginning.
very few also understand the full down bit on the collective, that is because they were taught in aircraft which had the auto RPM set too high and had to constantly adjust to keep it within the green arc. I nearly always have to go through the whiteboard bit about weight between minimum and max auw varies equally the different RRPM all the way through the engine off allowable range; and how the correct as per the Maintenance manual setting will give the lowest ROD and also allow the use of the full collective lever at the bottom.
however please bear with me, momentarily that is not the case, when recovering from an overspeed and you jerk the collective up, there is an agonising half second where the nr does not follow the rule book at all. in fact speaking from the experience of every mustering pilot which might happen to them hundreds of times in a the one or two very windy and choppy days in the year at low level with gusts to 30 35 knots if stationary in the hover the nett effect is more collective - more wind over the sails-, the nr increases, because the blades are being flapped up, the governor reacts by reducing MAP by up to 3.5" then of course increases to counter the then resultant effect of reducing rpm. this is a 2 to 3 second sequence somedays this occurs every twenty seconds or so.
In my case i usually turn the governor off as I can't stand the feeling of tearing the guts out of engine, drive belts and xmon every twenty seconds.
back to EOL's. the most important thing Dennis is to make sure before you start teaching them that the student understands the best range airspeed from the AFM, and will acquire it immmediately; where the wind is coming from (even when he is asleep) is going to continually acquire suitable EOL sites as his flights unfold, and can deomonstrate going into them in an into wind final appoach; how to get the collective fully down sharply and will check his RRPM when done; and will tell someone about it.
put that together, many don't, then they may get close to the ground in a safe manner.
Then, further previous reference to the AFM will tell them the best A/S to be at before the termination stage, flare etc.
their capacity to accomplish that last bit will be predicted by the amount of time their ab-initio instructor spent with his hands off the controls rather than on them. it is very irksome at the operational level to have to allow and encourage people to find their own way when it should have been done right at the beginning.
very few also understand the full down bit on the collective, that is because they were taught in aircraft which had the auto RPM set too high and had to constantly adjust to keep it within the green arc. I nearly always have to go through the whiteboard bit about weight between minimum and max auw varies equally the different RRPM all the way through the engine off allowable range; and how the correct as per the Maintenance manual setting will give the lowest ROD and also allow the use of the full collective lever at the bottom.
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G-aytf - Omg!
Hey Dennis
can't believe you are talking about that old dog - had to go and find one of the old log books - last flew TF in 1980 with Colin Chapman (Lotus boss, for those that don't know!) from Hethel to Liege for Belgian GP on 30 April and then shuttling between Villers and Zolden on 1st May.
Within months was back on S61, S 76 and Bell 214ST's - EOL's on all very different - but I like your recipe for the 206, worked well for me with BCal at Shoreham - and you should know after so many years telling the tale!
can't believe you are talking about that old dog - had to go and find one of the old log books - last flew TF in 1980 with Colin Chapman (Lotus boss, for those that don't know!) from Hethel to Liege for Belgian GP on 30 April and then shuttling between Villers and Zolden on 1st May.
Within months was back on S61, S 76 and Bell 214ST's - EOL's on all very different - but I like your recipe for the 206, worked well for me with BCal at Shoreham - and you should know after so many years telling the tale!
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Well ... remember how I opened this thread .... three pilots - at least four answers! I haven't actually counted the variation of engine-out handling procedures offered, but I think I qualify for a QED.
Thanks S for the 206 video, but I'd estimate the ASI was showing 50 knots most of the way down and was not what I would describe as a constant attitude/no flare technique. Using the ubiquitous Enstrom as my example, and for the right student pilot, I occasionally teach the 'constant attitude technique to achieve a pin-point touch down.' The exercise is ... 20-30 knots maximum ASI reading while holding a 'steady state,' near vertical autorotational descent (w/v dependent) ... wings level, stable lever position (mostly fully down) when, in the Enstrom, the cyclic can be trimmed to a 'hands-off' position.
Looking through the chin windows, the target needs to be held in a constant position relative to the yaw pedals. (at this point I often mention to the handling pilot ... that if he does nothing else - he will at least hit the target with his feet! Holding this attitude ... 'til around 20-30 feet, firm collective lever only is introduced to arrest the ROD and bring the skids to a short duration hover say 4 - 6 feet above the surface. Note absolute nil use of cyclic to this point. The helicopter is allowed to sink the final few feet using the remaining rrpm to cushion the final skids touch-down. The required judgment at the point of the first lever movement is quite critical and to get the timing right, that wonderful old CAA war horse, Ken Reid used to teach me to say to myself .... " Not now .... pause ... NOW!" I call this method 'the flopper' and is what I would use for real to make a landing in one of London's back garden sites or at night since there is absolutely no 'run-on.' With a few practices, a slight refinement becomes available since the first raising of lever results in the airframe picking up a couple of knots forward speed which can be corrected by combining the smallest amount of aft cyclic as the lever is first raised.
When that lovable guy John ZZ was instructing, between us and using the constant attitude technique, we'd lay a £5 bet on who could get the nearest to a nominated target in the training area. The target was the said note pinned under a brick BUT the winner had to collect his winnings without getting out of the seat!
The usual side note ... please don't try this at home without a type experienced instructor and a few knots of breeze always assists practice dramatically. Bye for now to all ppruners.
Dennis K.
Thanks S for the 206 video, but I'd estimate the ASI was showing 50 knots most of the way down and was not what I would describe as a constant attitude/no flare technique. Using the ubiquitous Enstrom as my example, and for the right student pilot, I occasionally teach the 'constant attitude technique to achieve a pin-point touch down.' The exercise is ... 20-30 knots maximum ASI reading while holding a 'steady state,' near vertical autorotational descent (w/v dependent) ... wings level, stable lever position (mostly fully down) when, in the Enstrom, the cyclic can be trimmed to a 'hands-off' position.
Looking through the chin windows, the target needs to be held in a constant position relative to the yaw pedals. (at this point I often mention to the handling pilot ... that if he does nothing else - he will at least hit the target with his feet! Holding this attitude ... 'til around 20-30 feet, firm collective lever only is introduced to arrest the ROD and bring the skids to a short duration hover say 4 - 6 feet above the surface. Note absolute nil use of cyclic to this point. The helicopter is allowed to sink the final few feet using the remaining rrpm to cushion the final skids touch-down. The required judgment at the point of the first lever movement is quite critical and to get the timing right, that wonderful old CAA war horse, Ken Reid used to teach me to say to myself .... " Not now .... pause ... NOW!" I call this method 'the flopper' and is what I would use for real to make a landing in one of London's back garden sites or at night since there is absolutely no 'run-on.' With a few practices, a slight refinement becomes available since the first raising of lever results in the airframe picking up a couple of knots forward speed which can be corrected by combining the smallest amount of aft cyclic as the lever is first raised.
When that lovable guy John ZZ was instructing, between us and using the constant attitude technique, we'd lay a £5 bet on who could get the nearest to a nominated target in the training area. The target was the said note pinned under a brick BUT the winner had to collect his winnings without getting out of the seat!
The usual side note ... please don't try this at home without a type experienced instructor and a few knots of breeze always assists practice dramatically. Bye for now to all ppruners.
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Because of the steep angle of descent in a Constant Attitude autorotation, the ASI can have very large pressure/position errors, dependent on the position of the pitot and static.
In some helicopters including the R22, holding 20-30kt will almost certainly result in bent skids as the ASI over reads a lot and about 40 kt IAS is about the minimum. The same was true of the Bell 47 G4A, but not the G2 model which had differently a positioned static port.
In some helicopters including the R22, holding 20-30kt will almost certainly result in bent skids as the ASI over reads a lot and about 40 kt IAS is about the minimum. The same was true of the Bell 47 G4A, but not the G2 model which had differently a positioned static port.
Two examples of autos with run-ons:
The 206 certainly manages run-ons more effectively on 'shorts' (low skids).
H500 run-on .. make sure the ground is smooth!
Note: The second half of the video digresses somewhat.
The 206 certainly manages run-ons more effectively on 'shorts' (low skids).
H500 run-on .. make sure the ground is smooth!
Note: The second half of the video digresses somewhat.
Savioa
Not a very good eol there i am afraid unless it is very hot ( doesnt look like it) or very high , dont know ? The guy hardly flares at all, shouldnt need to run on more than anout 2 to 3 ac lengths not half an airfield !
Not a very good eol there i am afraid unless it is very hot ( doesnt look like it) or very high , dont know ? The guy hardly flares at all, shouldnt need to run on more than anout 2 to 3 ac lengths not half an airfield !
I did wonder at one stage whether our sheep-loving brethren on the far-away isle were perhaps practicing a t/r control failure but, given the auto-intro, one supposes not .. unless of course such failure was additionally simulating an over-speed .. and which I suppose is perfectly possible!
In reality most engine failures in singles require zero (or near zero) forward speed touch-downs and these, in my view, are where one should hone one's skills.
The 500 is 'nippy' (read descends quickly) during autos but I remember too that her main rotors were remarkably responsive with just slight manipulations of pitch required to enliven or tame Nr.
The 500 remains the best 'fun' I've ever had in a rotorcraft. Oh, except for this time I flew a Singaporean model in a 206 but that, as they say, is another story.
In reality most engine failures in singles require zero (or near zero) forward speed touch-downs and these, in my view, are where one should hone one's skills.
The 500 is 'nippy' (read descends quickly) during autos but I remember too that her main rotors were remarkably responsive with just slight manipulations of pitch required to enliven or tame Nr.
The 500 remains the best 'fun' I've ever had in a rotorcraft. Oh, except for this time I flew a Singaporean model in a 206 but that, as they say, is another story.
More Hughes autos:
I have to say that I never did practise high speed run-ons in the 500 so I don't know if this is how they are usually performed. I also do not recall the 'snap' style flare .. but, there we are, there are so many different techniques.
I have to say that I never did practise high speed run-ons in the 500 so I don't know if this is how they are usually performed. I also do not recall the 'snap' style flare .. but, there we are, there are so many different techniques.
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Too much speed at the bottom end, Slow it down to best climb speed and reduce the need for a hard flare, Never had it slide over 6 ft, the hard part is making up for high DA at low gross weight,
Sav
Both of those EOL's not great the instructor is levelling the machine out too early hence the long run on. If he held the flare for another 20 to 30 ft before levelling off the result would be a lot kinder to the skids !
Both of those EOL's not great the instructor is levelling the machine out too early hence the long run on. If he held the flare for another 20 to 30 ft before levelling off the result would be a lot kinder to the skids !
Anything over two skid lengths ground run is a failure in my book.
More helicopters are destroyed due to getting tripped up in soft ground or hitting obstacles that catch a skid than are ever hurt by too short a ground run and too much vertical speed.
More helicopters are destroyed due to getting tripped up in soft ground or hitting obstacles that catch a skid than are ever hurt by too short a ground run and too much vertical speed.
Definitely aircraft specific, but the raw ingredients remain the same:
Pick your descent speed to get into the LZ! Everyone talks about EOL's as if they will always have a football pitch in front of them
Turn as much into wind as possible.
Switch the engine/fuel/igniters OFF.
Flare to reduce your g/s such that you will make your LZ.
Check before you level on some helos and level and then check on other a/c.
Finally raise the remainder of collective to minimise ROD and cushion the landing.
Ideally always train to do a zero zero.
PS: Raising the lever during the flare will never pitch the helo fwd - where did you get that from? The cyclic is in your crotch by then anyway??
NOTHING is more satisfying than an EOL. I had the privilige of teaching every conceivable type of EOL in both the sports car of the helo world (Gazelle) and the SeaKing before the hierachy decided the latter was too risky.
Best ones were doing Staff SCT PFL's to an engine off to a letter on the airfield. The skids had to land on the chalk to qualify.
The best "commercial" EOL I have ever seen is Mike MS's on the Treasur Hunt programme when he landed on top of some balloons in a 206. Beautiful.
Pick your descent speed to get into the LZ! Everyone talks about EOL's as if they will always have a football pitch in front of them
Turn as much into wind as possible.
Switch the engine/fuel/igniters OFF.
Flare to reduce your g/s such that you will make your LZ.
Check before you level on some helos and level and then check on other a/c.
Finally raise the remainder of collective to minimise ROD and cushion the landing.
Ideally always train to do a zero zero.
PS: Raising the lever during the flare will never pitch the helo fwd - where did you get that from? The cyclic is in your crotch by then anyway??
NOTHING is more satisfying than an EOL. I had the privilige of teaching every conceivable type of EOL in both the sports car of the helo world (Gazelle) and the SeaKing before the hierachy decided the latter was too risky.
Best ones were doing Staff SCT PFL's to an engine off to a letter on the airfield. The skids had to land on the chalk to qualify.
The best "commercial" EOL I have ever seen is Mike MS's on the Treasur Hunt programme when he landed on top of some balloons in a 206. Beautiful.
