EC120
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England & Scotland
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Starts generally - the Eurocopter procedure works fine. People are on record as having toasted an engine with an "improved" procedures. Hot and fast is better for the engine, I am told.
Hot starts - I prefer to get T4 clearly below the limit - 20 degrees or so. Also, keep the throttle back slightly from the white line then advance it in to prevent run-away T4 (exciting when that happens!)
Take the voltage warning seriously - below 15v at start and you are likely to have an over-temp. Watch that as closely as T4 during starts. If the machine has been idle for a while then consider a remote battery for the first start.
Run the engine weekly. If not the specs require you to set it up for storage. If you don't then you may find your paperwork to be a problem, and having to send the engine back to T for inspection is time consuming and not cheap.
Check the gearbox casing bolts - are they capped with weather-proofing? This is now standard for a rebuild (after 12 years) and on new machines. Without it corrosion in the gearbox studs can be a problem which you will find when you come to strip the MRG.
Load - the machine is sensitive to fwd centre of gravity. If I have anything in the load compartment I try to keep it to the rear of the bay as it does affect cyclic position and it makes me happier. As a rule of thumb, no cargo you +2 chaps then unless someone is very heavy you can carry full fuel. Any more pax (4x chaps or your 3 chaps plus a lady) and you are unlikely to be able to carry full fuel. I would suggest however that if you are departing in an EC120 with your W&B based on a 'rule of thumb' then we will be reading about you soon in an AAIB bulletin. I know, you do actually always check.
Make a note of the frame number and the tail number as these are different (not a lot of people know that). It can be an interesting discussion during a CAA audit (that's how I found out). The answer is the tails are built in China and have their own identification plate, so the aircraft frame number is the one the CAA chap needs, not the tail one.
Hot starts - I prefer to get T4 clearly below the limit - 20 degrees or so. Also, keep the throttle back slightly from the white line then advance it in to prevent run-away T4 (exciting when that happens!)
Take the voltage warning seriously - below 15v at start and you are likely to have an over-temp. Watch that as closely as T4 during starts. If the machine has been idle for a while then consider a remote battery for the first start.
Run the engine weekly. If not the specs require you to set it up for storage. If you don't then you may find your paperwork to be a problem, and having to send the engine back to T for inspection is time consuming and not cheap.
Check the gearbox casing bolts - are they capped with weather-proofing? This is now standard for a rebuild (after 12 years) and on new machines. Without it corrosion in the gearbox studs can be a problem which you will find when you come to strip the MRG.
Load - the machine is sensitive to fwd centre of gravity. If I have anything in the load compartment I try to keep it to the rear of the bay as it does affect cyclic position and it makes me happier. As a rule of thumb, no cargo you +2 chaps then unless someone is very heavy you can carry full fuel. Any more pax (4x chaps or your 3 chaps plus a lady) and you are unlikely to be able to carry full fuel. I would suggest however that if you are departing in an EC120 with your W&B based on a 'rule of thumb' then we will be reading about you soon in an AAIB bulletin. I know, you do actually always check.
Make a note of the frame number and the tail number as these are different (not a lot of people know that). It can be an interesting discussion during a CAA audit (that's how I found out). The answer is the tails are built in China and have their own identification plate, so the aircraft frame number is the one the CAA chap needs, not the tail one.
Last edited by John R81; 24th Sep 2013 at 11:33.
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Winter is coming....
In a few weeks our EC120 will go for a 4+ month winter sleep.
Instead of starting the engine every week, we're considering the
conservation procedure (not sure about the terminology) for the Arrius 2F.
Anyone has experience with this, is it for this situation a viable option?
Off course I'll talk to the mechanics, but for now I'm just curious about the procedure, costs and any other considerations.
Thanks in advance,
FTF
Instead of starting the engine every week, we're considering the
conservation procedure (not sure about the terminology) for the Arrius 2F.
Anyone has experience with this, is it for this situation a viable option?
Off course I'll talk to the mechanics, but for now I'm just curious about the procedure, costs and any other considerations.
Thanks in advance,
FTF
EC120 VEMD
I have some annoying error messages on VEMD ;
Vehicle Parameters out of Range
Failure detected
When the engineer checks them it is GPS not detected; or a keypad issue; but it is a new VMED with just 17 starts on it
I am told that there is no way to clear them and they will drop off after 250 starts.
This sounds really bad if its true; because will end up ignoring the message, I'm not going to get it checked every flight
What goes on? Is this Frenchmans revenge
Vehicle Parameters out of Range
Failure detected
When the engineer checks them it is GPS not detected; or a keypad issue; but it is a new VMED with just 17 starts on it
I am told that there is no way to clear them and they will drop off after 250 starts.
This sounds really bad if its true; because will end up ignoring the message, I'm not going to get it checked every flight
What goes on? Is this Frenchmans revenge
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I have noticed on my EC-130 that if I for example turn on Direct Battery before I turn on External Batt/Pwr in the start up sequence I will, upon shut down, get a failure detected. It spits out some erroneous reason similar to what you are finding. The only reason why I would turn Direct Battery on before External Batt/Pwr as called for in the start up check list would be for a night flight where I am turning on the Dome lights of the cabin for loading pax. The VEMD's are famous for showing goofy failures sometimes. Although mine is flawless when the checklist is followed...I bet you will find a reason as to why it does what it does.
Good luck.
Good luck.
If you hold the top four buttons on on the VEMD then push the battery on and hold (the four buttons) until it says let go, you'll find yourself in the menu where you can check the last vehicle parameter over limits yourself.
edit: I had a think about this and you actually hold the bottom three button of the top screen, off2, reest and select, not all four. Apologies as350nut.
edit: I had a think about this and you actually hold the bottom three button of the top screen, off2, reest and select, not all four. Apologies as350nut.
Last edited by Jabberwocky82; 27th Mar 2014 at 19:58.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Loose articles
Most 120 drivers will be aware of the risk of somethingfalling down the front edge of the floor and disappearing from view. This Irish accident report covers whathappened to G-BZIU
http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/upload/general/12104-2001007_INCIDENT_GBZIU-0.PDF
On Sunday 8th June on a charter flight in my machine, one of the pax losthis mobile – seems to have fallen from his pocket unknown. Yes, with that nose-down profile in cruise flight it ended up dropping-off the front ofthe floor and disappearing underneath. Fortunately,on this occasion it did not jam anything; it just sat there. Landing was uneventful, but the phone thenneeded to be recovered to return the machine to service, and though we couldsee it through the bottom of the plexi-glass there was no way to get a hand toit. Judicial application of a borrowed barbeque forkmoved the phone to a position where it could be recovered.
A salutaryreminder that loose objects on the floor of a 120 can easily end up where youdon’t want them. On this occasion no drama, but it could have ended differently.
http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/upload/general/12104-2001007_INCIDENT_GBZIU-0.PDF
On Sunday 8th June on a charter flight in my machine, one of the pax losthis mobile – seems to have fallen from his pocket unknown. Yes, with that nose-down profile in cruise flight it ended up dropping-off the front ofthe floor and disappearing underneath. Fortunately,on this occasion it did not jam anything; it just sat there. Landing was uneventful, but the phone thenneeded to be recovered to return the machine to service, and though we couldsee it through the bottom of the plexi-glass there was no way to get a hand toit. Judicial application of a borrowed barbeque forkmoved the phone to a position where it could be recovered.
A salutaryreminder that loose objects on the floor of a 120 can easily end up where youdon’t want them. On this occasion no drama, but it could have ended differently.
John
I've had this exact thing happen to me and having since heard about the machine where the pedals jammed, there's now a new entry in the toptobottom flight manual - no loose items on the floor!
I've had this exact thing happen to me and having since heard about the machine where the pedals jammed, there's now a new entry in the toptobottom flight manual - no loose items on the floor!
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I found a metal part of the GPS missing, it also fell in that gap.
Had to buy "mechanical fingers" to get it out. I guess it's good to have one of these around in the hangar...
Had to buy "mechanical fingers" to get it out. I guess it's good to have one of these around in the hangar...
Interesting - it has fingers!
Also very handy is one with a magnet on the end for retrieving nuts and circlips that have fallen from your fingertips into the bowels of the machine!
Also very handy is one with a magnet on the end for retrieving nuts and circlips that have fallen from your fingertips into the bowels of the machine!
Thread Starter
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On the market for an engine !
Long shot it may be,
But I would be very interested if anyone knows where I could get my hands on a serviceable Arrius 2F engine ?
Mine is emigrating to Turbomeca France as its started to make metal.
Any help appreciated
Nelly
But I would be very interested if anyone knows where I could get my hands on a serviceable Arrius 2F engine ?
Mine is emigrating to Turbomeca France as its started to make metal.
Any help appreciated
Nelly
Vehicle Paremeters out of range
Have sorted out the cause for this message on every flight, I changed from the awful NiCad battery to 2x odyssey sealed lead battery's and have no faults or problems starting. The message comes up because of the different battery type in use.
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Does that require a modification? I ask because recently informed of someone at CAA trying to claim that a painted line added to helicopter side was "a modification" requiring paperwork. I understand that view was over-ruled when questioned.
John R81
Yes involves an engineering order to modify; a stainless steel bracket to hold the batterys in; removal of the NiCad cradle; a loop in the wiring to disconnect the fire warning for the stinky little NiCad when it decides to light up. A once off 2,000 cost but then you go from I NiCad at 6 to 8K that decides to let you down on start even though it says its good to go, to two oddessy that are about 500 each mil spec, contained, leak proof and super dependable and won't set you on fire if they are in the mood. They are good for 2 yrs and then put them (12V) in your car as they still have 3 yrs left on warranty ( 5 total).
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Very interesting - thanks for the info.
I also have spurious warnings / over-limits from time to time. Through experimentation I have found that applying the rotor brake later than -10 from the stated application rpm can sometimes (not always) generate a spurious report of rotor over-speed (clearly spurious, as it is timed at 0.0 sec at a speed sufficient to hurl the blades into low orbit. The secret seems to be to apply rotor break just below 120 rpm and keep it fully on through the 110 - 50 range. Actually, I keep the break on until the rotor slows and I can position a blade to the front. Since adopting this technique I don't remember seeing a false rotor over-speed warning.
I haven't found the source of the spurious "Gen out of parameter" warning on start, not being prepared to play with the start sequence, but this could be the NiCad, like yours. My 120 does start well, and only once has she "hung" at 400 degrees (aborted, give it a few minutes, next start was perfect), and only a couple of times have I aborted start for battery voltage drop (I give up at seeing +1v to the stated 15v and go get ground power).
Interestingly, I had noticed that the faster / better the start goes on internal battery the more likely the spurious GEN warning is to arise, which is the opposite of what I would expect from a true warning. It is certainly not linked to a low voltage reference on the screen (which we all watch closely during starts) as the false report seems to be less likely to occur if there is a larger voltage drop on the battery. And, I have not actually had a false warning at all when an external ground power source has been added, which would be occasional (I know) but it would then be a cold / first start which would for me be quick and hot per the book; just the type of start that on internal battery only is more likely to generate a false report.
I do always check the on-board screen after the flight just to make sure that it is not a real fault detected; can't bring myself to not check even when I think I am certain the report is false!
I also have spurious warnings / over-limits from time to time. Through experimentation I have found that applying the rotor brake later than -10 from the stated application rpm can sometimes (not always) generate a spurious report of rotor over-speed (clearly spurious, as it is timed at 0.0 sec at a speed sufficient to hurl the blades into low orbit. The secret seems to be to apply rotor break just below 120 rpm and keep it fully on through the 110 - 50 range. Actually, I keep the break on until the rotor slows and I can position a blade to the front. Since adopting this technique I don't remember seeing a false rotor over-speed warning.
I haven't found the source of the spurious "Gen out of parameter" warning on start, not being prepared to play with the start sequence, but this could be the NiCad, like yours. My 120 does start well, and only once has she "hung" at 400 degrees (aborted, give it a few minutes, next start was perfect), and only a couple of times have I aborted start for battery voltage drop (I give up at seeing +1v to the stated 15v and go get ground power).
Interestingly, I had noticed that the faster / better the start goes on internal battery the more likely the spurious GEN warning is to arise, which is the opposite of what I would expect from a true warning. It is certainly not linked to a low voltage reference on the screen (which we all watch closely during starts) as the false report seems to be less likely to occur if there is a larger voltage drop on the battery. And, I have not actually had a false warning at all when an external ground power source has been added, which would be occasional (I know) but it would then be a cold / first start which would for me be quick and hot per the book; just the type of start that on internal battery only is more likely to generate a false report.
I do always check the on-board screen after the flight just to make sure that it is not a real fault detected; can't bring myself to not check even when I think I am certain the report is false!
Gen out of parameter
On investigation of the RFM you may find a statement that this is "normal".
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Yup. That just means they expect an error report. Don't always get it though.
Or are you referring to the over limit report displaying until 40%NR on next start, which is something different?
Or are you referring to the over limit report displaying until 40%NR on next start, which is something different?
Last edited by John R81; 11th Dec 2014 at 09:57. Reason: Added Q
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Finally, the low-cost Colibri that everyone's been asking for!
Not much room for your clubs (or missus), though. 
Meet the tiny Colibri, Germany's one-seat wonder
I/C
Meet the tiny Colibri, Germany's one-seat wonder
I/C
Not much room for your clubs (or missus), though.
Meet the tiny Colibri, Germany's one-seat wonder
I/C
Meet the tiny Colibri, Germany's one-seat wonder
I/C