LINE TRAINING (offshore) - How much???
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LINE TRAINING (offshore) - How much???
The range of time allocated to line training seems to vary around the World, with often only broad guidance by regulators. While competency is the essential determining factor, with line training forming an important part of the foundation, how much is viewed as necessary/reasonable? It appears that with the on-going financial pressures on training departments, yet another area is suffering from cut-backs. Seems ironic, since line training is amongst the most efficient, yet cheapest, considering that the bulk of it is covered on routine commercial operations.
Raises the philosophical question - for offshore operators, what do you folks think is a reasonable min. amount of line training (hours/sectors), what is done in your company or an operator you have worked for, and what are your thoughts?
Non-offshore colleagues, inputs from your fields mostly welcome.
Raises the philosophical question - for offshore operators, what do you folks think is a reasonable min. amount of line training (hours/sectors), what is done in your company or an operator you have worked for, and what are your thoughts?
Non-offshore colleagues, inputs from your fields mostly welcome.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norway
Age: 44
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since you haven't got any answers from offshore-pilots, I might as well come with an input.
I work for an inland-company (mostly sling-load and other aerial work). We use the AS 350-family helicopters, and fly single-pilot.
To recruit new pilots, we employ pilots fresh from school, and they work a few years as "load-masters" before they get a "trainee"-contract.
As Trainees, they get the type-rating, but need 150 hrs in turbine helicopters before they are allowed to fly solo. To achieve that we have a "PICUS"-system (Pilot-In-Command-Under-Supervision), where the trainee act as PIC, but with an experieced pilot in the left seat, and with dual-controls.
In practice, that means our Trainees have accumulated something around 5-600 hrs before they become Commanders.
And a total of 3-5 years from first employment as Loadmasters, until they are Pilots.
That way every pilot has a deep understanding of most of our operations from "ground-level" and up!
I work for an inland-company (mostly sling-load and other aerial work). We use the AS 350-family helicopters, and fly single-pilot.
To recruit new pilots, we employ pilots fresh from school, and they work a few years as "load-masters" before they get a "trainee"-contract.
As Trainees, they get the type-rating, but need 150 hrs in turbine helicopters before they are allowed to fly solo. To achieve that we have a "PICUS"-system (Pilot-In-Command-Under-Supervision), where the trainee act as PIC, but with an experieced pilot in the left seat, and with dual-controls.
In practice, that means our Trainees have accumulated something around 5-600 hrs before they become Commanders.
And a total of 3-5 years from first employment as Loadmasters, until they are Pilots.
That way every pilot has a deep understanding of most of our operations from "ground-level" and up!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks very much for your comprehensive feedback. The progression program seems detailed and prepare entry-level pilots well. There are similar programs from "zero into offshore, multi-IFR" in our industry, but candidates generally do not work in other roles prior.
However, may I ask the following - in your company, what line training would a direct-entry pilot (i.e. one with similar experience from another company) receive?
Interestingly, the offshore World seems to be pretty quiet on the discussion...
However, may I ask the following - in your company, what line training would a direct-entry pilot (i.e. one with similar experience from another company) receive?
Interestingly, the offshore World seems to be pretty quiet on the discussion...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shell
Thanks very much to the poster from Shell. Unfortunately, the reply does not seem to be live. Copy below:
Quote: Shell are very explicit on this in their contracts as it is too easy for operators to skimp on this.
End quote---------
Indeed, most OGP clients (incl. Shell) have quite strict criteria, but there seem to be variances in "prescriptive" hours from OGP client to OGP client, and occasionally from contract to contract. The attempt of this thread is to obtain general feedback on what we in the industry think is a reasonable amount of line training for offshore operations, a balance between the often low (and decreasing) minima of operators, and the sometimes excessive contract stipulations by OGP clients.
Offshore operators - how much line training (role/route) - hours and sectors do your ops manuals specify for let's say a representative type such as an S92, or AW 139 -MP/IFR?
Pilots - how much line indoctrination time do you think would you, on average, require if moving to a new aircraft type in a new area of operations?
Quote: Shell are very explicit on this in their contracts as it is too easy for operators to skimp on this.
End quote---------Indeed, most OGP clients (incl. Shell) have quite strict criteria, but there seem to be variances in "prescriptive" hours from OGP client to OGP client, and occasionally from contract to contract. The attempt of this thread is to obtain general feedback on what we in the industry think is a reasonable amount of line training for offshore operations, a balance between the often low (and decreasing) minima of operators, and the sometimes excessive contract stipulations by OGP clients.
Offshore operators - how much line training (role/route) - hours and sectors do your ops manuals specify for let's say a representative type such as an S92, or AW 139 -MP/IFR?
Pilots - how much line indoctrination time do you think would you, on average, require if moving to a new aircraft type in a new area of operations?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I worked offshore in '99 the company manual laid down a minimum of hours and sectors you had to do during your line training before you got released, but this training was done during revenue flights.
Does that help?
Does that help?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks very much Brilliant Stuff - anything helps; indeed, that is how most regulators, companies and/or clients stipulate requirements.
The underlying question now being - from your experience, what do you think an IFR, offshore, MC operation requires?
2 hours and 5 sectors? 4 hours and 6 sectors, 15 hours and 30 sectors, ....prior to a pilot or co-pilot being scheduled with any other line Captain?
Any feedback from Bristow, CHC, Cougar, Norsk guys?
The underlying question now being - from your experience, what do you think an IFR, offshore, MC operation requires?
2 hours and 5 sectors? 4 hours and 6 sectors, 15 hours and 30 sectors, ....prior to a pilot or co-pilot being scheduled with any other line Captain?
Any feedback from Bristow, CHC, Cougar, Norsk guys?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember that the issue was that we quite easily fulfilled the sectors since you could easily do 5 sectors an hour but then it took as while to fulfill the hours requirement which I can't remember but one of the current crop of offshore boys should be able to tell you.
I think in the end it depends on the operation and the number of training captains available.
I believe it should be down to the training captains to decide how training is necessary, with a minimum of say 25 sectors and 10 shifts.
The more training the better of course.
It's been ten years since my offshore training so it's all a bit misty in my head.
I think in the end it depends on the operation and the number of training captains available.
I believe it should be down to the training captains to decide how training is necessary, with a minimum of say 25 sectors and 10 shifts.
The more training the better of course.
It's been ten years since my offshore training so it's all a bit misty in my head.
