"Wealthy businessman attacked a helicopter"
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I've had this happen to me twice.
The first time was in an RAF Puma during a VIP trip on a military exercise. We had just dropped off the passengers rotors running when a labourer working in an adjacent field ran to the open cabin door.
The second was when a suspected criminal ran at the aircraft as I was landing.
On neither occasion did it seem sensible to attempt an aircraft shutdown, just the opposite in fact.
The fact that the chap involved in the case in this topic was waving his arms around put him in grave danger and I think the pilot was entirely correct in lifting off for that reason alone.
The first time was in an RAF Puma during a VIP trip on a military exercise. We had just dropped off the passengers rotors running when a labourer working in an adjacent field ran to the open cabin door.
The second was when a suspected criminal ran at the aircraft as I was landing.
On neither occasion did it seem sensible to attempt an aircraft shutdown, just the opposite in fact.
The fact that the chap involved in the case in this topic was waving his arms around put him in grave danger and I think the pilot was entirely correct in lifting off for that reason alone.
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This was not a military aircraft or crew and obviously in each case a judgement call has to be made at the time, but I think I would feel happier knowing that even if I ended up with a black eye, or took a pasting my pax were not put in grave danger, than having to explain to their relatives or a court why I took off and put their lives in danger cos some idiot decided to hang on to the skids... That said, if half a dozen angry looking armed men are approaching I wouldn't be shutting down for a chat... 
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This was not a military aircraft or crew
There is probably far more danger from the cyclic being grabbed by some nutcase than having him hang on the skids. If the disc tilted enough to remove his arms or head, what would folk have said then? Almost certainly that the pilot should have raised the lever, lifted off and put the miscreant out of danger below the aircraft..
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Shytorque,
Firstly I would have thought a Puma crew (of 3 or 4?) would be able to defend themselves from an irate farmer, surely they deal with tougher situations in warzones? Secondly, the average non flying member of the public has no idea what the controls in a helicopter actually do, and it's a bit extreme to assume an angry man will open the door and suddenly grab the conrols! What is there to stop any idiot walking into a rotor any time we land in a public place, whether they are angry at the helicopter pilot or not? Most normal people have the common sense not to do that, the same as most normal people have the common sense to look both ways for traffic before crossing the road...
Firstly I would have thought a Puma crew (of 3 or 4?) would be able to defend themselves from an irate farmer, surely they deal with tougher situations in warzones? Secondly, the average non flying member of the public has no idea what the controls in a helicopter actually do, and it's a bit extreme to assume an angry man will open the door and suddenly grab the conrols! What is there to stop any idiot walking into a rotor any time we land in a public place, whether they are angry at the helicopter pilot or not? Most normal people have the common sense not to do that, the same as most normal people have the common sense to look both ways for traffic before crossing the road...
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RAF Pumas originally had a crew of two, not 3 or 4.
But you miss the point; We dealt with the situation but there would have been no time to shut down the aircraft before the angry man might have unwittingly killed himself. Instead, he was given a kick in the chest by the crewman, levelling him to the ground. Turned out he was a local imbecile.
Nor was there time in the second instance to shut down the aircraft; I took a rapid decision to move the aircraft from the scene of a possibly impending accident.
Perhaps you have never had to deal with the "angry man" scenario yourself. Things can happen fast and unpredictably so.
Yes, he might have got shot.
But you miss the point; We dealt with the situation but there would have been no time to shut down the aircraft before the angry man might have unwittingly killed himself. Instead, he was given a kick in the chest by the crewman, levelling him to the ground. Turned out he was a local imbecile.
Nor was there time in the second instance to shut down the aircraft; I took a rapid decision to move the aircraft from the scene of a possibly impending accident.
Perhaps you have never had to deal with the "angry man" scenario yourself. Things can happen fast and unpredictably so.
surely they deal with tougher situations in warzones?
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I have described my experiences earlier in the thread, post 78 refers...
In the situation you describe the action you took worked out for the best, and happily no one was injured. Im simply saying I can't agree with you that a snap decision to suddenly take off when a pilot feels threatened will, in the majority of cases, and in this one in particular, be the right one...
In the situation you describe the action you took worked out for the best, and happily no one was injured. Im simply saying I can't agree with you that a snap decision to suddenly take off when a pilot feels threatened will, in the majority of cases, and in this one in particular, be the right one...
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The man in this case was a threat to himself and to the safety of the aircraft and those on board. The court came to the same conclusion.
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Puma...
YBB: it is from the Pictures of Pakistan Flood Relief effort ..
Continuing Pakistani floods - The Big Picture - Boston.com
Look for the pic # 9 and # 10.
Quite a picture they have there ..
Thread drift - while working with some Russian crew, the crew once mentioned that had the difficult task for keeping a perimeter around the Mi-17, though when the craft is lifting off - with the perimeter disappearing - atleast once they had to come down to drop off a man who decided to take a impromptu lift in the landing gear struts ... when they landed in a paddy and asked him what he was thinking he had said that he wanted a lift "up the road" -
Continuing Pakistani floods - The Big Picture - Boston.com
Look for the pic # 9 and # 10.
Quite a picture they have there ..
Thread drift - while working with some Russian crew, the crew once mentioned that had the difficult task for keeping a perimeter around the Mi-17, though when the craft is lifting off - with the perimeter disappearing - atleast once they had to come down to drop off a man who decided to take a impromptu lift in the landing gear struts ... when they landed in a paddy and asked him what he was thinking he had said that he wanted a lift "up the road" -
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If you read the testimony of the perpetrator, he said, if I understood it correctly, that he didn't touch the helicopter but merely raised up on his toes with his arms straight up, as one does standing under the blade disc. Now all that is needed is simply to back up a bit, when disaster is guaranteed...
Is there any point to continuing to second-guess the actions of the pilot? Some here seem to think that a rotor brake is some marvelous device that you use to just stop (Eeerk!) the rotors "just like that," when really it still takes some time for motion to cease. To have some angry loon poised on tip-toe under a slowing, drooping main rotor... that doesn't sound like a real smart idea to me.
Given that no one was injured I think we can just take it as read that the pilot took a course of action that was essentially correct in coping with a person who was being criminally foolish. Otherwise the judge would have come to a different verdict. I cannot see how a pilot could have anything much to say against the action this pilot took; sometimes we really do have to take sides.
Is there any point to continuing to second-guess the actions of the pilot? Some here seem to think that a rotor brake is some marvelous device that you use to just stop (Eeerk!) the rotors "just like that," when really it still takes some time for motion to cease. To have some angry loon poised on tip-toe under a slowing, drooping main rotor... that doesn't sound like a real smart idea to me.
Given that no one was injured I think we can just take it as read that the pilot took a course of action that was essentially correct in coping with a person who was being criminally foolish. Otherwise the judge would have come to a different verdict. I cannot see how a pilot could have anything much to say against the action this pilot took; sometimes we really do have to take sides.
Well said Chuks - glad to see that your prolonged exposure to 'real pilots' has been of benefit!
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ShyTorque
With gracious respect to all of you,(and no repetitious arguement here) I really can not see how the rotor disc can chop off someone's arms or head when they are reaching in and grabbing hold of the cyclic. 
Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick
There is probably far more danger from the cyclic being grabbed by some nutcase than having him hang on the skids. If the disc tilted enough to remove his arms or head, what would folk have said then?
Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick
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Anyone who is a qualified helicopter pilot would see the danger in a testosterone fuelled nutcase wrenching open the pilot's door and grabbing the controls. Does it have to be described in minute detail?
If ShyTorque's description doesn't tick all of chopjock's boxes for exactitude, I think that the troll is here for effect, not for rational discussion
If ShyTorque's description doesn't tick all of chopjock's boxes for exactitude, I think that the troll is here for effect, not for rational discussion
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chopjock
I'm having difficulty deciding whether you mean what you write or simply hope to provoke reactions.
I realise that, like me, you're a PPL but can you really not see the catastrophic consequences (for him and/or those in the helicopter) which might easily have resulted from this man's idiotic behaviour?
It's all very well to say the pilot should have dealt with the threat to the helicopter in a different way.
Perhaps you would have reacted differently.
And perhaps the outcome would also have been very different.
What we do know is that what this pilot did worked.
I'm having difficulty deciding whether you mean what you write or simply hope to provoke reactions.
I realise that, like me, you're a PPL but can you really not see the catastrophic consequences (for him and/or those in the helicopter) which might easily have resulted from this man's idiotic behaviour?
It's all very well to say the pilot should have dealt with the threat to the helicopter in a different way.
Perhaps you would have reacted differently.
And perhaps the outcome would also have been very different.
What we do know is that what this pilot did worked.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 27th Aug 2010 at 00:24.
Having had the dubious pleasure of having not one, but more like twenty one people decide to clamber into my aircraft, through every opening possible, I can vouch that getting airborne is the best option if possible. In my case, it was not possible to do so safely and I was then left with the safety of everyone around the aircraft literally in my hands. Firstly as the co-pilot was dragged out, smacking the cyclic as he went, then with a bunch of various individuals climbing through my window, across the centre pedestal and over my back, who were more concerned with restraining my arms as they thought I would try and escape! 
The prospect of the cyclic being exercised through it's full range, whilst running, and a bunch of people fighting under the disc did not fill me with delight 
Luckily I was able to free my arm long enough to pull the T-Handles and turn off the battery, then back to the controls for the run down - which being unable to use the rotor brake took an age!
At least I got a free holiday out of it.......
So, I would say that getting airborne - if safely possible - is by far the best option. People grabbing you whilst at the controls is no fun.
The prospect of the cyclic being exercised through it's full range, whilst running, and a bunch of people fighting under the disc did not fill me with delight Luckily I was able to free my arm long enough to pull the T-Handles and turn off the battery, then back to the controls for the run down - which being unable to use the rotor brake took an age!At least I got a free holiday out of it.......
So, I would say that getting airborne - if safely possible - is by far the best option. People grabbing you whilst at the controls is no fun.
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I just can't understand why this poor chap's wife is being so unreasonable - I mean what is wrong with women these days????
Skid Grabber featured on Pprune shocked by unreasonable wife.
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Even more serious, he feeds chicken bones to his dogs (according to the report).
Surely he should know that chicken bones can injure dogs. Someone should report him to the RSPCA.
Surely he should know that chicken bones can injure dogs. Someone should report him to the RSPCA.
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If you were a millionaire property developer, who was being a bit naughty with a younger mistress wouldn't you find a..... erm...... better looking one....? 
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