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The Rotary Nostalgia Thread

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The Rotary Nostalgia Thread

Old 25th Apr 2014, 10:51
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Thanks John
During my endless google searches, that was the photo that inspired me to try and build G-BDYZ; I've now accumulated a great amount of info so thanks very much guys.

Regards the 212's John. Thanks again as I started googling things like the 'treasure finder' and found some interesting photos (some appear in here i think) so really keen to make a start on this in the future.

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Old 9th May 2014, 15:33
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But not at Shawbury, but at RAF High Ercall,
High Ercall was a relief landing ground for Tern Hill whilst it was 6 FTS.
I know, I did my first solo there on 28th November 1960.

The buildings and blister hangar seemed pretty deserted then but it was rumoured that as an MU it used to be the Spitfire Disposal Unit. They were cleaned out of useful things and the airframes were used as infill for some breakwater on the Mersey.

Irt would have finished any flying there when 6 FTS moved to Acklington and CFS(H) took overr in 1961.

Not only civilian pilots flew out of Shawbury. Naughty RAF pilots did to. A friend of mine got himself into somewhat embarassing mire in 1963/64 and was sent over ther until the Air Ministry decided what to do with him.
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 09:56
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Very early in the seventies, Aerospatial, as it was called then, wanted to present the AS330 (Puma) onto the civil market. For this the main gearbox had to have a certified TBO well in excess of the 800 hrs. which was the military time expired point. The result was that the French Army offered four Pumas and the Royal Air Force two. The aircraft on our squadron was XW 203 that was just coming up to a gearbox change. This gearbox would continue to fly under very close supervision and the plot was that this aircraft would fly 100 hrs. a month. (shock, horror) The rest of the aircraft would then have to meet the normal flying task.

This wasn't that easy owing to a lot of pilots being detached and especially when the weather socked in. Quite often it would be invisible as it hovered relentlessly in thick fog.

We soon found a use for this freebe taxi.

As mentioned before this was an ideal opportunity to restock freezers, fridges and the wine cellar. Machrahanish for kippers and other goodies and even a foray to Orkney to collect some choice lamb. We had an 'arrangement' with Manston customs where we could be assured of a rapid rotors-running customs clearance when we had a load of German wine from Gutersloh.

It was used for the things as well. Aberdeen still had the UAS and there pan would be occupied by this Puma whilst the pilots discussed their career prospects with the chief pilots of the helicopter operators. One of our groundcrew hailed from some island to the west of Scotland. To save him days of travelling when going on leave a time when the tide was out (Aunty Betty owns all the beach between the high and low water mark) we would drop him off a short walk from his home and subsequently pick him up again. One of the more unusual jobs was moving someone's goods and chattles from Odiham to his new posting.

All good things have to come to an end. XW 203, in a sudden burst of enthusiasm, attempted to carry out a slow roll all by itself just after take off in a field. It didn't manage it, the crew survived with only minor burns, but in the end an undercarriage leg was all that was sticking out of the ashes.

Another aircraft was substituted but this was under a draconian monitoring programme so it wasn't allowed to go very far.

The project must have worked. When I started flying civil 330s the gearbox TBO was 1800 hrs. and with modern monitoring techniques they are way past that.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 21:39
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G-BDKD

For those interested in such things ex-met Enstrom G-BDKD is flying again after 5 years off!

Life in the old dog yet!

G.
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Old 14th Jun 2014, 17:24
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Danny.

You entertained us with you stories about your trusty Bond Three-wheeler.
Sculling around China I was in Chongqing for a few days and the three-wheelers there are still going strong as the Chang An. This one was private but a lot of them were used as taxis.



The sound footprint suggested that it had a motorcycle engine in the back but as Chongqing is very hilly it can obviously cope with four up.

Where there is a need there is a way
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 13:53
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A I mentioned years ago in this thread when we were discussing the Beam Approach I, and many others, flew them at our FTS at Tern Hill with Provost T1 trainers in 1961/62.
They probably shut it down when CFS (Helicopters) took over in early 1962. It was difficult enough to keep a Sycamore or Whirlwind upright during instrument flying, let alone trying to do a self interpreted approach.
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Old 23rd Jun 2014, 19:25
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During the Confrontation in Borneo in the sixties the HF frequency we used to pass our departure and arrival messages at Kampongs and clearings was jammed with traffic in Viet Nam.
One day a pilot took advantage of a quiet moment to pass a departure message. An American voice came up.
"Getta offa this frequency, don't you know there's a war on?"
To which our hero replied.
"Of course I do, we've got one here too, but we're winning ours."
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Old 26th Jun 2014, 22:03
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One of the first Empire test pilots

J J M Jeffery, one of the countries first empire test pilots and the first pilot to bring the sakoursky helicopter to Britian, is alive and well and recounting his stories
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 08:09
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The Ghurkhas were heavily involved during the Indonesian Confrontation. I was once based at a Ghurkha Battalion HQ in the middle of Sabah where dinner was served on the regimental crockery and Tiger beer was consumed in silver goblets.

There was one annual ceremony that I heard about. It would involve the RSM beheading a young bull with one stroke of a five foot kukri and woe betide the regiment if he was not successful.

This required a bull which were in short supply in the sticks so a helicopter was requested. A Navy Wessex was tasked and owing to the obvious dangers of putting it inside it was heavily sedated, strapped into a harness and underslung.

Apparently, it woke up half way there and, seeing the world pass by 1,000 ft. under his hooves, got quite upset. This resulted in his disturbing his aerodynamic qualities markedly resulting in quite violent swinging and twisting.

No; they didn't bin him and send him off to an instant hamburger factory. They hung on to him, a dozen or so Ghurkhas held him down at the other end and that evening he went to the pastures in the skies.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 17:57
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Despite having flown in the tropics for some considerable time I have never knowingly had reptiles in the aircraft. In Australia we picked up some really big mudcrabs that had been stunned by heavy naval gunfire and they woke up half back which kept the rear crew on their toes. As far as the cockpit goes I had this one in Borneo. I have posted this before, twice over five years, so some may be familiar with it.

Borneo mid sixties. Operating with a Whirlwind HC1 (S55 with a jet engine to you Americans) on the border with Indonesia. I was flying solo, no crewman, shuttling Ghurkhas rotating from an FOB called Pensiangan to our main base at Sepulot. Loading was simple: Hold up four fingers when you land and four Ghurkhas run in with their kit. One thumps your leg when they are ready and off you go. They tend to collect things so they would carry other packs apart from their army kit so allowing 220lbs each for a Ghurkha base transfer was about right.

I picked up the last stick, only three of them. They had a lot of stuff but weight wasn’t a problem so off I went. I had just settled in the cruise when this gibbon climbed up through the left hand footwell. He climbed onto the seat and looked at me. Not liking what he saw he turned and started to launch out through the port window. Just as he was going out he looked down and realised that he was a thousand feet above the trees so he grabbed the cyclic and pulled himself back in again. Now both of us were looking UP at the trees.

He was now terrified so he jumped for comfort to the nearest human, i.e.me. In a flash he was wrapped round my shoulders and head and trying to strangle me. I got him off and as I pushed him back to the other side two sets of brown hands poked through the floor to recover him. One hand got hold of a leg but little gibbon wasn’t interested. There are lots of things to grab hold of if you don’t want to go out through the floor. Cyclics, collectives, speed select levers, HP cocks and he was having a go at most of them.

There was nothing I could do. I had clamped the collective so I had a hand free to fend off his attentions to the switches and cocks on the centre console. He wasn’t interested in going down and his keeper couldn’t get him down. The only thing I could do was put it on the ground and sort it out then.

There was a clearing with a sandy river bank ahead that I had used before so I set up the descent. As be passed through two hundred the gibbon started to take an interest in the scenery and fortunately the blokes downstairs did too so things calmed down a bit.

It was quite peaceful until we touched down and then the gibbon shook himself free and bolted through the port window. There was a screech as he passed the jet pipe but then he disappeared on all fours into the trees at ten o’clock. Two nanoseconds later a Ghurkha rocketed after him with his Armalite and disappeared into the same trees. I was now stuck. I couldn’t shut down as in Borneo a river can go from zero to twenty feet of water in five minutes and I didn’t have enough fuel to wait very long. After a minute or so I managed to get the attention of one of the other passengers and got him to climb up the side of the aircraft so I could shout at him.

He didn’t speak English so I pointed in the last known position of his mate and held out my hands in a query fashion. He gave me a thumbs up, spun a finger and pointed upwards. I repeated his sign language and he nodded and gave another thumbs up. With that he climbed back into the cabin and thumped my leg to show that they were ready. Not a lot I could do so I took off and flew to Sepulot.

We were living in the Ghurkha officer’s basher so I collared OC HQ Coy and told him what had happened. I described where I had left him but he wasn’t concerned. “He’ll be back tomorrow,” and he was. Complete with gibbon..
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Old 21st Jul 2014, 08:04
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What did your Gurkha want it for
They were kept as pets. The Ibans, who had lived there since whenever, treat monkeys as a food source. It tastes like a mixture of pork and chicken because I had to dine with a headman once as it was preferable to my head being shrunk. The used either blowpipes or shotguns, both equally accurate, to shoot them down from the trees. When they killed a mother they would keep the infant until it was big enough to eat. If the Gurkhas saw one they would buy it off them and look after it.

When the Gurkhas returned to Nepal the monkeys they had would end up at Jesselton, now Kinabalu. Zoo, where they would eventually be returned to the wild. (Probably to be shot again).

Going back to the old Smith & Wesson; I was issued with one in Borneo, probably the same one as yours. With it came the tatty cardboard box with twelve (1947) rounds. I had been in the Rhodesian Army so I was a dab hand with a shooter but we were getting a new batch of pilots who had gone straight through training without seeing a gun. There wasn't a range at our home base so we were allowed to fire six rounds just before we came back from a forward area.

A fuel drum at fifty yards was the target and none of us could hit it, including me. My last round I fired into the air into wind and I could see the shell going. Something had to be done for my personal safety so I decided to use a ploy I had heard about. Using 9mm. ammunition in a .38 revolver.

To overcome the fact that 9mm. used rimless cartridges against the rimmed variety on the .38 the trick was to run a few turns of thin helicopter blade tape in the recess so it would hold it in the chamber when the hammer hit it. Blade tape was easy, 9mm. ammo not so.

I was taking some Intel people from Pensiangan to a border longhouse called Kabu, sit there for an hour or two and then fly them back. During this period I ask the Intel chap of what the chances of getting some 9mm. was. No problem, he would fix it. When I dropped them off I waited until a Gurkha came along and with a thump deposited a box of 1,000 rounds in the back.

I now had too much but the crewmen were issued with Sterling sub-machine guns that used 9mm. so I was handing out 50 round boxes like Santa Claus. They all had to unload their RAF ammo if they wanted to shoot because if they handed back magazines with shiny rounds in the armourers would know that they had fired the stuff that they had purloined off Montgomery. I then taped up fifty rounds and next day we went down to the fuel drum.

The bullets are about the same size though the 9 mm. case is a looser fit in the chamber. They needed a bit of a push to compress the tape so that the rear face was flush. Just one round; up with the gun, both hands, and fire.

BANG-Berdoing, Fantastic!

A bigger kick because there was more powder but the gun didn't throw at all. I opened the chamber and because it had no rim for the extractor I poked it out with a screwdriver. The chamber looked fine, and a look down the barrel confirmed that was fine too. My crewman then returned from behind a tree.

I loaded up six and off I went; Bang-Berdoing X 6.

Nobody else was interested in doing it for their pistols; something to do with Elfin Safly. I carried the same pistol around for a further six months and must have sent a couple of hundred rounds though it with no problem. It was a bit of a bind wrapping them and then poking them out but in the end I could hit the drum at a hundred yards which is about the maximum range you are ever going to get in the jungle so I felt a lot more secure.
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Old 21st Jul 2014, 20:15
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One of our pilots shot himself in the foot. He fired the first round and not seeing any effect fired the second. This pushed the first round out of the muzzle and it dropped onto his foot.
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Old 17th Sep 2014, 18:24
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The flying brevet, when awarded, was provisional for six months. We had a pilot come out to the Far East straight out of the OCU. His record of flying training were full of reviews and minimum passes. We ignored those, and all but a few on the squadron was unaware of the facts. We thought that with a complete change in surroundings and people that he could make a go of it.

HE WAS ABSOLUTELY RUDDY USELESS.

He couldn't assimilate anything about the technical and climatic aspects of flying in the Far East as well as anything about the task in hand. We persevered, as best we could, but came the day when he had to do his official categorisation. It was a disaster and so bad that even failing it wasn't considered.

He was an immediate E cat and after a review he ended up in the Education Branch minus his wings.

Not his fault, he should never have been there in the first place, and he admitted it.
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Old 19th Sep 2014, 09:21
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The Vickers Valiant was an all electric aircraft. Undercarriage, flaps, airbrakes(?) and bomb doors. Even the flying controls were operated by electro-hydraulic units descended from the Frazer Nash gun turret. No problem with locking the bomb doors as one crew found out after a few days on the wazz in the USA on a Lone Ranger.

The battery had gone flat.

You couldn't charge the battery until the battery contactor was made which required battery power and they were in the bomb bay and you couldn't open the bomb bay until you had electrical power.

Eventually after a lot of crawling around underneath the AEO's position the AEO manage to connect a set of borrowed jump leads from a fire truck to the contactor's terminals. This enable the external power to connect to the aircraft and then they could open the doors.

The reason the battery had gone flat was the old chestnut common to cars. They had left the bomb bay lights on when they closed them up for the night.
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Old 21st Sep 2014, 14:36
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For using the curvature of the Earth to assist a take off you can't beat the old TU 154. They've all gone now but in the Nineties there were a lot flying the routes in China. The only time I flew in one, apart from the almost Victorian décor, was half the overhead locker fronts were missing; something I was used to as it was the same on YAK 40s, no spares.

At Wenzhou our patch was close to the single runway turning area. A 154's undercarriage mainwheels were three wheels in tandem and the screeching and howling from the tyres as they turned it coupled with the visible twisting of the undercarriage bogies was some thing to be experienced.

Noise abatement? forget it; Clean Air Act? forget it; there would be a cloud of decibels and smoke trundling down the runway and when you thought disaster was certain the wings would claw sufficient lift to get it off the ground. Immediate altitude was obtained by raising the undercarriage and the whole show would then disappear behind the trees to reappear in the distant horizon leaving behind a trail of asphyxiated pigs.

They finished at the end of the last century. The last major accident was when one had an autopilot rectification and was released to service without a functional check. The rudder and ailerons actuators had been cross coupled so the aircraft rolled into the ground immediately after take off taking a hundred or so with it. Murphy's Law was widespread in Soviet designed aircraft and after that Chinese aviation went over to Western products. I believe China North West was the last to use them and at Tianjin airport I could see half-a-dozen ex Aeroflot examples that were being used as Xmas trees.

Lots of rumours about Chinese aviation in the eighties and nineties; none of them true. If an aircraft crashed and there were no foreigners on board they just bulldozed over the hole. If an air trafficker caused an accident they would take him round to the back of the tower and shoot him.

At the turn of the century CAAC read the Riot Act to all the Chinese airlines and things improved beyond recognition. Now Chinese Aviation is amongst the safest in the world and I am proud that I was part of that transformation.
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Old 23rd Sep 2014, 19:33
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The mighty V force would have a trip carrying a 10,000lb inert bomb to simulate the instant sunshine of the time. This consisted of a big tin tube filled with concrete.

On this occasion there was a load thump in the back of the aircraft and the bomb aimer, checking his bombing equipment, realised that the inert had released itself and was sitting the bomb bay doors.

Not wishing to dig a big hole in the UK they were instructed to proceed to Wainfleet range and release it by opening the doors. The barge that was to be the target was identified on the NBS radar and in they came.

The bomb aimer had no idea of the ballistic characteristics of an inert; it was not something they published at the time, so he selected a bomb type 0, i.e. a perfect bomb.

He had the cross hairs on the target and with two minutes to go the bombing computer opened the doors.

They never did find out where it landed.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 10:09
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My father flew on a Chinese airliner in the early 1980s. There were two more passengers than seats, which wasn't a problem as they found a couple of deck chairs for them to sit in.
Trip from Shanghai to Wuhan in 1998. Those days if you were flying from Shanghai in the morning you had to book into a hotel by the airport the night before because you couldn't get from the centre of Shanghai in time. Two heavies accompanied me to the check-in and they bulldozed me through the crowd to the front. No seat selection, I got a boarding number, 11, similar to some present low cost airlines.

The boarding of the 727-100 was straightforward enough and I found myself a seat by a window underneath the fin attachment points. I worked on the basis that if we didn't hit something too hard the deceleration rate plus the fifty or so cushions in front of me would make it survivable. Both the seat belt and the ashtray were in place and the lights for them, in Spanish, worked.

We got airborne and as we settled in the cruise the overhead CRTs pivoted down from the ceiling and the flight's entertainment came on.

It was Karaoke.

You could hear the music through the headphones but also the person singing it. Removing the headphones meant that you could only hear the singing which was even worse. I was scrabbling around trying to find some ear defenders, it would have been grossly impolite to stick one's fingers in your ears, but with no success.

I cowered into the corner and resigned myself to the torture. Eventually it all went quiet apart from the air hostess wandering up and down calling 'She yi?'

She yi, I thought, that's eleven in Chinese so I held up my boarding ticket. She then came over and thrust the microphone into my face. I shook my head, "Mayo," (No nothing) I said and immediately about six Chinese jumped on me trying to get hold of my ticket.

At that time Wuhan airport was a joint military/civil airport in the middle of town. Kai Tak was quite spectacular dodging the concrete on the final turn to the runway but Wuhan had it in Spades. Both wingtips were clipping the balconies and at the last moment they retreated to be replaced by the threshold lined with twin engine Xian Y7s in various states of disrepair. The runway was built from large square concrete pourings with tar inlays at the joints and was incredibly noisy and bumpy. I thought for a moment the vibration had shaken the overheads open but it was the passengers starting to retrieve their baggage before the engines' reversing petals had closed.

After disembarking I was escorted the rear of the aircraft where they were unloading the baggage so that I could identify mine. I watched as the baggage was tossed out of the door onto the ground ten feet below and when I saw mine poised I shouted and it was gently lowered down.

I went Wuhan a couple of years later when the Yangtze flooded for the last time. To see rows of PLA soldiers in three ranks, chest deep in water, arms locked together, acting as a human dam to stem the flow of the floodwater through a breach in the dykes so that the sandbags being thrown in could get a grip has left an impression on me for ever.
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 19:22
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My father was trained in Pensacola with the US Navy. He was fairly old, thirty, but he was an ex-brat. The fact that he was married and had two children was also unusual. My mothers only comment about his time in the States was that he was two left feet on the dance floor before he went but was like Fred Astair when he came back.

He did a lot of his flying on seaplanes. Possibly he was being streamed for Sunderlands in Coastal. He ended up in Coastal but on Met Halifaxs.
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Old 29th Sep 2014, 15:15
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I had an event with Ray Hanna in May 1978. I was tasked, actually I was running the flying programme and so I put myself on, to do a photographic sortie of JU 52 arriving at Biggin Hill. There is no point in having power if you don't abuse it.

The JU52 was a CASA 252 which, with a collection of Merlin powered He111s and 109s, had been bought off the Spanish Air Force. The plot was to have a film of the Tante Ju and a Spitfire in formation. I went to Biggin, met Ray, had a look over his Spitfire and we waited for news of the Junkers which was en-route from Spain.

Nobody knew where it was. It had been reported over Ashford so we decided that I, having stacks of fuel would launch and look for it. So my Puma HC1 helicopter became the last RAF aircraft to attempt to intercept a WW II Luftwaffe aircraft.

I picked it up after about fifteen minutes, head on with that peculiar undercarriage dangling underneath. The Spitfire was scrambled and I slotted echelon port to the 52. The camera crew the started to get to work and then Ray and his Spitfire formatted the other side. Not without difficulty because the Junkers was only doing about 110 knots and I don't know how a Spitfire handles in formation, flapless, at that speed.

The JU 52 was shaking like a corrugated iron roof in a gale. His port No1 engine was apparently getting bit hot so No2 in the middle was working overtime to keep the show going. However we got our pictures and then we left the Junkers behind and there was a session with just the Spifire tucked in. He found it a lot easier at 145 knots.

It was my last operational day flying in the RAF. A few days later I flew a Puma to my children's school in Kempshott and after that it was the North Sea.

I think that the Junkers (CASA) ended up in the SAA museum at Zwartcop.
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Old 5th Oct 2014, 08:50
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The G limits on a Spitfire were probably +6 to -3 in normal operation. That seemed to be the range for most aircraft immediately post war. Both the Meteor and the Vampire had G meters with the needles set at that. They could go further, +8 personally, but without a G suit prolonged G of +5 or above would induce greying.

IIRC the Vampire, which had a more aerodynamic wing than the Meteor, would G stall at about 220knots with 6 G applied. I forget what the speed was at 8.
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