The Rotary Nostalgia Thread
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Savoia
It looks remarkably similar to me - but I don't have any photos of the Mk3 or Mk 7 Dashboards and cockpit controls. Do you?
Regarding the chaps who flew out of a WW3 still in their seats complete with the panel - I just find it hard to see how they got past all that gubbins in front of them without injury, never mind the small things like whirling rotor blades. I can see how people have been ejected through bubble canopies but WW and WX cockpits are pretty tough old things. Someone with the time and inclination could trawl through Lee Howards and others magnificent book "Fleet Air Arm Helicopters since 1943" and find the incident. It will be there if it happened.
However miracles do happen I am sure - just don't recall this one. D
It looks remarkably similar to me - but I don't have any photos of the Mk3 or Mk 7 Dashboards and cockpit controls. Do you?
Regarding the chaps who flew out of a WW3 still in their seats complete with the panel - I just find it hard to see how they got past all that gubbins in front of them without injury, never mind the small things like whirling rotor blades. I can see how people have been ejected through bubble canopies but WW and WX cockpits are pretty tough old things. Someone with the time and inclination could trawl through Lee Howards and others magnificent book "Fleet Air Arm Helicopters since 1943" and find the incident. It will be there if it happened.
However miracles do happen I am sure - just don't recall this one. D
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In the shadows
Age: 80
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this happened only a few years ago and was listed in the FAAOA website death/obituaries but the archive doesn't seem to go back that far. One of my brain cells says that he was living in Thailand at the time but I can't remember any details. I last saw him back in the 80's in Aberdeen when he was part of a independent consulting team inspecting us on behalf of an oil company.
Colin Moorcraft is living in Oz - his contact details are in the members' section of the FAAOA website to which you have access. He appears to live only a 45 mile drive from you!!
Colin Moorcraft is living in Oz - his contact details are in the members' section of the FAAOA website to which you have access. He appears to live only a 45 mile drive from you!!
I never quite got used to the raw amount of excess power the H-19 had on a hot summer's day when fully loaded with fuel, Instructor, two Student Pilots....and a verbal message. Must have been the length of the Verbal Message that got us!
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In the shadows
Age: 80
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nick Boyd
I knew I'd seen a notice about Nick's passing - it was here on PPRuNe some 7 years ago:
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/210017-nick-boyd.html
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/210017-nick-boyd.html
Thread Starter
Some Brecqhou History
Past owners of Brecqhou Island (part of the Channel Islands) include: Sibyl Hathaway and Angelo Clarke but it is, I believe, the owner prior to the Barlcay's who perhaps pioneered 'helicoptering' to the isle.
From 1966 to 1987 the island was owned by Leonard Matchan who owned several helicopters and at least one fixed wing.
Leonard took it upon himself to commission a series of Brecqhou stamps and, one is mighty glad he did, for it is from these stamps that we are able to piece together a little of the island's rotary-wing history.
In 1969 Leonard commissioned a first day cover which looked something like this:
First Day Cover of indigenous Brecqhou stamps dated 30th September 1969 and stamped "Brecqhou Island Heliport"
On the cover we see a two shilling stamp (below):
One of the first Brecqhou stamps depicting a Hiller UH-12E4 with floats
Separate sources show the following actual helicopter (below) as having visited the island:
Hiller UH-12E4 over Brecqhou Island c. 1969
Now, I have not yet been able to tie Leonard Matchan to the ownership of a Hiller UH-12E4 but .. on the Nostalgia Thread we have looked at G-ATDW a couple of times, each time located at Southampton, each time wearing fixed floats and both times between 1966 and 1967. So, I think there may be a case to surmise that just possibly, Leonard was chartering the Hiller from Bristows?
Let's look at another stamp from the same period:
Leonard Matchan's 75p Brecqhou Island stamp depicting Brantly 305 G-ATLO
Well well. As we know from the Nostalgia Thread, there were very few Brantly 305's in Britain and this one we have certainly covered previously. She is of course none other than Tommy Sopwith's former mount (son of the designer of the WW1 bi-plane the Sopwith Camel .. for those just joining us).
Tommy sold ATLO in 1966 to BEAS (the Brantly distributor) who then sold it within a matter of months to Leonard Matchan (although the craft was registered to 'Bouley Investments' of St. Helier).
A little later we find another 75p stamp issued by Matchan:
Leonard Matchan's 75p Brecqhou Island stamp depicting Gazelle G-BBHU
Now when I saw this I thought .. aye aye .. we're back to chartering and he's rented it from Specialist Flying Training (for one recognises the scheme) but no .. Leonard bought BBHU from Westland Helicopters in 1974 and kept her until 1985 when she was then sold to SFT. So, our island owner was traversing the channel for over a decade in this little Gazelle fitted with skid-mounted float 'bags'.
Regarding the stamps, I came across this:
One more item of 'stamp history' to come.
Past owners of Brecqhou Island (part of the Channel Islands) include: Sibyl Hathaway and Angelo Clarke but it is, I believe, the owner prior to the Barlcay's who perhaps pioneered 'helicoptering' to the isle.
From 1966 to 1987 the island was owned by Leonard Matchan who owned several helicopters and at least one fixed wing.
Leonard took it upon himself to commission a series of Brecqhou stamps and, one is mighty glad he did, for it is from these stamps that we are able to piece together a little of the island's rotary-wing history.
In 1969 Leonard commissioned a first day cover which looked something like this:
First Day Cover of indigenous Brecqhou stamps dated 30th September 1969 and stamped "Brecqhou Island Heliport"
On the cover we see a two shilling stamp (below):
One of the first Brecqhou stamps depicting a Hiller UH-12E4 with floats
Separate sources show the following actual helicopter (below) as having visited the island:
Hiller UH-12E4 over Brecqhou Island c. 1969
Now, I have not yet been able to tie Leonard Matchan to the ownership of a Hiller UH-12E4 but .. on the Nostalgia Thread we have looked at G-ATDW a couple of times, each time located at Southampton, each time wearing fixed floats and both times between 1966 and 1967. So, I think there may be a case to surmise that just possibly, Leonard was chartering the Hiller from Bristows?
Let's look at another stamp from the same period:
Leonard Matchan's 75p Brecqhou Island stamp depicting Brantly 305 G-ATLO
Well well. As we know from the Nostalgia Thread, there were very few Brantly 305's in Britain and this one we have certainly covered previously. She is of course none other than Tommy Sopwith's former mount (son of the designer of the WW1 bi-plane the Sopwith Camel .. for those just joining us).
Tommy sold ATLO in 1966 to BEAS (the Brantly distributor) who then sold it within a matter of months to Leonard Matchan (although the craft was registered to 'Bouley Investments' of St. Helier).
A little later we find another 75p stamp issued by Matchan:
Leonard Matchan's 75p Brecqhou Island stamp depicting Gazelle G-BBHU
Now when I saw this I thought .. aye aye .. we're back to chartering and he's rented it from Specialist Flying Training (for one recognises the scheme) but no .. Leonard bought BBHU from Westland Helicopters in 1974 and kept her until 1985 when she was then sold to SFT. So, our island owner was traversing the channel for over a decade in this little Gazelle fitted with skid-mounted float 'bags'.
Regarding the stamps, I came across this:
In September 1969 the then owner of Brecqhou, Leonard Matchan, planned and executed an issue of stamps, more properly called "carriage labels" they were ostensibly to pay for the cost of delivering letters and parcels to a recognised General Post Office. The older spelling of Brechou was used on these stamps. The day after the issue, stamps of Brecqhou were suppressed by the Guernsey Postal Authority when they took over responsibility from the UK for the issue of postal stamps.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norwich
Age: 79
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Westland's Wonderful Whirlwinds
On 705 Squadron,during the winter of 1964/65, we flew both WW3 (Wright Cyclone) and WW7 (Alvis Leonides). The main differences have already been discussed. I can add that during night flying the flame from the Mk3 exhaust was at least 2 feet long and a lurid yellow colour. Most disconcerting as one approached the hover. The Mk7 flame was about a foot shorter and a much more efficient violet colour.
On the Mk7, an aircraft destined to spend much of its life at low level over the sea, Westland had positioned the engine air intake on the very lowest part of the nose. Similarly, as only they could, the identical Hydraulic and Engine Idle Cut-Off switches were placed adjacent each other on a sub-panel just below the centre console.
The Bendix cartridge starter is to be seen in post 2242 concealed behind a small blister shaped panel on the front of the engine clamshell doors. This unit had 6 "shots" (IIRC) contained within a revolving magazine that was rotated by means of a lever under the instrument panel. The Navy, in its infinite wisdom, had disconnected this feature fearful that an incorrectly indexed cartridge would blow the nose off. Also, only one cartridge was loaded at a time as it was felt the additional cartridges might "cook off" during flight.
When the cartridge was fired the expanding gasses acted on a piston that, by means of a suitable system of gears and levers, could rotate the engine through about one revolution. If one had got the mixtures and throttle setting correct, and had turned the Mags on, there was every chance that at least one, then eventually all fourteen cylinders would fire up and join the party. Experienced WW pilots took pride in only ever needing one cartridge..................students were different.
If carbon residue built up in the starter cylinder the piston could not move and the excess gas pressure was relieved overboard by rupturing a safety disc. If the safety disc did not blow there was a real danger that the whole unit would be blown off its studs, through the blister panel and lay in a smoking heap on the deck in front of the aircraft. So, the wiser start crew would hold the blister panel open at arms length whilst ensuring that the more sensitive areas of the body were not in line. If necessary the starter was beaten severely with a leather mallet to dislodge any carbon residue. Later, on ARK ROYAL, the stove pipe jockeys and engineers appeared nonplussed by this procedure and I'm sure they thought it was a punishment rather than a recognised maintenance practice.
When I left 705 as a student and went on to qualify on the wonderful new and shiny Wessex Mk5, I thought my Whirlwind days were over. But, a pier head jump in late 1965 saw me joining ARK ROYAL, on her Far East tour, as the junior pilot on the Ship's Flight. XM684 and XM685 were the last AVGAS fuelled aircraft in the fleet and we were the first Ship's Flight to complete a commission with the same aircraft that we started with. (Even though we ran it close). I grew to love the Whirlwind 7 and under the tutilage of POFMAN and a bunch of long suffering but excellent crewmen, I learned more about helicopter flying than I could possibly have done elsewhere.
XM685 now resides in the Newark Air Museum. Whilst in reasonable condition she is lifeless, in the wrong colour scheme and her place in naval history as the last AVGAS powered machine in the fleet goes unremarked.
On the Mk7, an aircraft destined to spend much of its life at low level over the sea, Westland had positioned the engine air intake on the very lowest part of the nose. Similarly, as only they could, the identical Hydraulic and Engine Idle Cut-Off switches were placed adjacent each other on a sub-panel just below the centre console.
The Bendix cartridge starter is to be seen in post 2242 concealed behind a small blister shaped panel on the front of the engine clamshell doors. This unit had 6 "shots" (IIRC) contained within a revolving magazine that was rotated by means of a lever under the instrument panel. The Navy, in its infinite wisdom, had disconnected this feature fearful that an incorrectly indexed cartridge would blow the nose off. Also, only one cartridge was loaded at a time as it was felt the additional cartridges might "cook off" during flight.
When the cartridge was fired the expanding gasses acted on a piston that, by means of a suitable system of gears and levers, could rotate the engine through about one revolution. If one had got the mixtures and throttle setting correct, and had turned the Mags on, there was every chance that at least one, then eventually all fourteen cylinders would fire up and join the party. Experienced WW pilots took pride in only ever needing one cartridge..................students were different.
If carbon residue built up in the starter cylinder the piston could not move and the excess gas pressure was relieved overboard by rupturing a safety disc. If the safety disc did not blow there was a real danger that the whole unit would be blown off its studs, through the blister panel and lay in a smoking heap on the deck in front of the aircraft. So, the wiser start crew would hold the blister panel open at arms length whilst ensuring that the more sensitive areas of the body were not in line. If necessary the starter was beaten severely with a leather mallet to dislodge any carbon residue. Later, on ARK ROYAL, the stove pipe jockeys and engineers appeared nonplussed by this procedure and I'm sure they thought it was a punishment rather than a recognised maintenance practice.
When I left 705 as a student and went on to qualify on the wonderful new and shiny Wessex Mk5, I thought my Whirlwind days were over. But, a pier head jump in late 1965 saw me joining ARK ROYAL, on her Far East tour, as the junior pilot on the Ship's Flight. XM684 and XM685 were the last AVGAS fuelled aircraft in the fleet and we were the first Ship's Flight to complete a commission with the same aircraft that we started with. (Even though we ran it close). I grew to love the Whirlwind 7 and under the tutilage of POFMAN and a bunch of long suffering but excellent crewmen, I learned more about helicopter flying than I could possibly have done elsewhere.
XM685 now resides in the Newark Air Museum. Whilst in reasonable condition she is lifeless, in the wrong colour scheme and her place in naval history as the last AVGAS powered machine in the fleet goes unremarked.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In the shadows
Age: 80
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reminds me of a Bristow 206 that landed at Sywell for fuel and wouldn't start.
At the request of the pilot I went for a look and it was apparent that the start relay was operating but the starter gene wasn't turning.
So being short on ideas I gave it a wack with a nylon hammer while the pilot held the start switch down. A huge shower of sparks resulted, I fell off the steps, but the engine started.
Problem now was no output from the gene.
The pilot decided to call for advice and left the aircraft padding next to the pumps while he went off to find a phone.
We all went and hid at the far end of the hangar.
At the request of the pilot I went for a look and it was apparent that the start relay was operating but the starter gene wasn't turning.
So being short on ideas I gave it a wack with a nylon hammer while the pilot held the start switch down. A huge shower of sparks resulted, I fell off the steps, but the engine started.
Problem now was no output from the gene.
The pilot decided to call for advice and left the aircraft padding next to the pumps while he went off to find a phone.
We all went and hid at the far end of the hangar.
Thread Starter
ICO: Thank you for that engaging reflection of your Whirlwind flying days. Fascinating!
Baston: Sadly no Whirlwind cockpit shots.
Eric: I'm sorry you fell off your ladder. Am trying to picture the scenario which, together with others mentioned on this page, comes across as most amusing!
Some great stories being told across various threads the past few weeks!
Royal Navy Westland Whirlwind HAS7 XK906 (No date or location available)
Delivered to the FAA in June 1957.
Baston: Sadly no Whirlwind cockpit shots.
Eric: I'm sorry you fell off your ladder. Am trying to picture the scenario which, together with others mentioned on this page, comes across as most amusing!
Some great stories being told across various threads the past few weeks!
Royal Navy Westland Whirlwind HAS7 XK906 (No date or location available)
Delivered to the FAA in June 1957.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 415 Likes
on
218 Posts
I was tasked with a schools liaison visit in the summer of 1979. I can't recall the precise date but it was either June or July and we flew back to my old school. For some reason I didn't log it; probably because by then I'd moved onto the Wessex phase of the course and was recalled onto the Whirlwind just for that day so I wouldn't have ready access to the authorisation sheet and forgot. We received a complaint afterwards. Apparently some old lady claimed we had blown away her wishing well although I later found out we were not guilty - apparently some drunks from the local pub nearby had liberated it from the front garden on their way home the night before. It was found in the brook quarter of a mile up the road!
Thread Starter
Thread Starter
Thread Starter
As mentioned on the Bristow thread, she is almost certainly the same craft as captured by Ken Knight at Sabine pass but .. I wonder if she was actually registered to Bristows?
Does anyone happen to know whether there is an FAA equivalent of G-INFO?
The craft in question, N9000A (as your database must show) was serial no. 1470. It seems that by 1986 (perhaps before) she was sold to Air Zermatt in Switzerland when she became HB-XMU (below) thereafter being sold to France to become F-GIBU.
The records show that in 2011 she was sold to 'Gazelle Management Services' of Ruthin in Wales and now flies as G-IBME.
Air Zermatt SA324J Gazelle HB-XMU c. 1986 (Photo: Anton Heumann)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Northants
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only N9000A on the FAA database is a Firefly 7 Balloon. No Gazelle comes up on a search of S/N 1470 either.
As to the WW7 starting problems, I seem to recall that the engineers on 705 had resorted to chocks instead of hide-faced mallets by the early 70s.
As to the WW7 starting problems, I seem to recall that the engineers on 705 had resorted to chocks instead of hide-faced mallets by the early 70s.
Hi Sav. Rotorspot is the site to look for if you want to check up on a particular registration. It covers pretty much every country and is a great research tool. Here is the entry for N9000A and it confirms the info in your post.
"N9000A Sud-Aviation 341G Gazelle > 342J 1470 N9000A,HB-XMU,F-GIBU"
Sadly, no details on operators.
500 Fan.
"N9000A Sud-Aviation 341G Gazelle > 342J 1470 N9000A,HB-XMU,F-GIBU"
Sadly, no details on operators.
500 Fan.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In the shadows
Age: 80
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like N9000A it does not seem to appear on the FAA Database as a Gazelle but both are listed in Rotorspot which also lists a S76A as having been issued with N9000A.
N9003A....Sud-Aviation 341G Gazelle s/n 1566........ N9003A,9Y-TGU,N7448Y,SX-HDL,..??..
Last edited by CharlieOneSix; 8th Nov 2013 at 13:05. Reason: added jpeg
Thread Starter
Mamma mia .. what a lot of confusion!
XX514: Thank you for the link. I simply can't explain that!
500 Fan: I use Rotorspot the whole time and regularly exchange information with Jos.
C16: You absolutely right .. it could very well be N9003A! Grief now what to do?
Zishelix: You have to help us out .. especially as you started it all!
XX514: Thank you for the link. I simply can't explain that!
500 Fan: I use Rotorspot the whole time and regularly exchange information with Jos.
C16: You absolutely right .. it could very well be N9003A! Grief
now what to do?Zishelix: You have to help us out .. especially as you started it all!