How to ruin your day

[fly911]

Looks like (and I'm just speculating) as the helo slows below ETL and OGE, Chris might have run out of left pedal, hence the right turn. Lowering collective to stop the turn possibly produced the settling. But don't go by me. Hell, I'm wrong a good part of the time. Chris Dupree, if you're reading this just remember, you're not the first. Don't beat yourself up too bad if it turns out that you misdiagnosed the power loss situation. There are blue skies ahead.

[mickjoebill]

In the past 24 hours, two accidents involving filming/photography missions



Mickjoebill

[Hughes500]

Looks like the tail rotor hit something first, if you look at one of the frames you see some foliage gett chopped behind the helicopter thus loss of yaw control you then hear the blades hit the tree canopy. However not sure if this was the result rather than the cause. The sound quality is not great but the rotor sounds very slow and the engine beat not fast / loud enough. Mind you I am only going by a c model ( 3500 hours on them)l only have 50 or so hours on b's and cb's if they were flying one of these so could be the rigt sound. Difficult to get low rpm in a C model as the correlator is pretty effective uo 25" not very good in a b model though

[fly911]

Aircraft information

21-Jun-10 N247FG Schweizer 269CB McDowell, US-North Carolina | Helihub - the Helicopter Search Engine

Helicopter Pilot Program

[Hughes500]

fly911

Thank you for that shoots me down nicely !! So how about down wind, too slow, loss of translational lift and run out of power into tree canopy

[fly911]

Ntsb Accident Report

NTSB Identification: ERA10LA323
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Monday, June 21, 2010 in Ashville, NC
Aircraft: SCHWEIZER 269C-1, registration: N247FG
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
ERA10LA323

On June 21, 2010, at 1400 eastern daylight time, a Schweizer 269C-1 helicopter, N247FG, was substantially damaged when it impacted terrain following a loss of engine power in Asheville, North Carolina. The certificated commercial pilot and passenger were not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed for the local flight which originated at the Asheville Regional Airport (AVL). The photo flight was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.

The purpose of the flight was for the passenger to film footage for a U.S. Forest Service documentary, specifically capturing the local “kudzu,” an invasive plant species.

According to the pilot, they departed AVL around 1045 and flew in the local area, filming, until they needed to refuel. The pilot then landed at Foothills Regional Airport (MRN), Morganton, North Carolina. The helicopter was fueled with 19 gallons of fuel, filling the fuel tanks to 25 gallons of total fuel. The pilot then departed MRN and flew back toward AVL. After about 20 minutes, the passenger spotted an area of “kudzu” he wanted to film. The pilot performed a 360-degree turn and approached the area “straight and level between 30-40 knots to maintain translational lift.” As the helicopter was abeam the “kudzu” the pilot heard a pitch change in the engine and noted that the engine/rotor rpm was “in the bottom of the green,” and dropping lower. The helicopter was also descending into the trees. The pilot lowered the collective slightly and increased the throttle “to get the rpm back,” however the helicopter continued to descend. The engine continued to run, but it was “bogging down.” Shortly after, the helicopter impacted the “kudzu,” and rolled to the left.

Examination of the airplane by a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector revealed the main rotor blades sustained substantial damage. The helicopter and engine were removed from the accident site and transported to a secure facility for further examination.

The pilot held a commercial pilot certificate and a flight instructor certificate with ratings for rotorcraft-helicopter and instrument helicopter. His most recent FAA second-class medical certificate was issued on November 19, 2007. At that time he reported 200 hours of total flight experience.

The weather reported at AVL, at 1354, included wind from 190 degrees at 5 knots, 10 miles visibility, clear skies, temperature 29 degrees C, dew point 17 degrees C and altimeter setting 30.19 inches mercury.

[Gordy]

According to the report:

His most recent FAA second-class medical certificate was issued on November 19, 2007.

Looks like this pilot has some explaining to do---commercial operations with an out of date second class medical.....

[darrenphughes]

Even though you can flight instruct using the privileges of a third class medical cert(which is what he was down to with a second class that old), flight instructors need to remember that second class medical privileges are needed to do the other kinds of operations that come hand in hand with working at a flight school such as photo flights, golf ball drops, and candy drops, etc....

It's best to just renew the second class every year while flight instructing. If only just to have it for the off chance that you might find yourself suddenly with the chance of getting you're first proper commercial turbine job. It's not like it's crazy expensive.

[fly911]

Brings up a good point....

Of course each of us are responsible for keeping our medical up to date. No argument there, but how many employers also insure that its pilots have a valid medical? Out of four of my employers, none ever sent me a reminder and only three required that a current medical be kept on file. Depending upon their Ops manual, the employer may be in violation as well. Actually more than likely unless operating public aircraft in the U.S. One of my old company's pilots was fired for flying without a valid medical. (One flight) Some say it wasn't fair. I'm not too sure about that.

[Gordy]

Even though you can flight instruct using the privileges of a third class medical cert

The way I read the rules you can NOT for compensation or hire---as in he instructs for free.

Also, EVERY company I work for has kept a medical on file for all pilots. I have a "status" board on the wall in my office showing the expiration date of all my pilots medicals, 135 rides due, carding rides due etc.

I cannot even comprehend why a professional pilot would let their medical privileges expire...except for medical reasons...

[Raptor_]

Even though you can flight instruct using the privileges of a third class medical cert

The way I read the rules you can NOT for compensation or hire---as in he instructs for free.

Also, EVERY company I work for has kept a medical on file for all pilots. I have a "status" board on the wall in my office showing the expiration date of all my pilots medicals, 135 rides due, carding rides due etc.

I cannot even comprehend why a professional pilot would let their medical privileges expire...except for medical reasons...

Yes you can. You can do all kinds of instruction with a 3rd class medical and get paid big bucks. The reason is that yourīre being paid to be a _teacher/instructor_ and not a _pilot_. You do however need the 3rd class to be and act as PIC.

If you are instructing pilots who already hold a rating, e.g. instrument, commercial, atp, cfi etc. you donīt even need a medical at all if youīre not acting as or logging PIC. As long as your student is rated in category, class and make and model as needed, he/she can be PIC and hence you donīt need a medical.

Just to back up my statements; read this AOPA article for further information
AOPA Online: Instructor Reports

[Gordy]

Raptor---you are in correct. I still find it hard to believe that a school would allow an instructor to work there on a third class medical.

And this is still a moot point as on this case the pilot was conducting a photo/video shoot, therefore required to have a second class medical.

[FH1100 Pilot]

Boy, I'll bet the pilot of that 300 is kicking himself, going, "Damn, why didn't I post the question on JustHelicopters as to whether I can do commercial ops on a second-class medical past 24 months?"

[darrenphughes]

Boy, I'll bet the pilot of that 300 is kicking himself, going, "Damn, why didn't I post the question on JustHelicopters as to whether I can do commercial ops on a second-class medical past 24 months?"

As an instructor, not only should he have known, he should be able to teach the finer points of medical certificate privileges. Not to sound like an anal prick about the rules, but there's no room in this industry for wanton disregard for regulations.

Although, as flight instructors we tend only to find out how aggressively the FAA enforce their regs when we move up into the "135 world", and see chief pilots covering every little legal aspect of operations conducted to protect their certificates. I guess this is another argument for why our flight instructors should only get certified after a lot of experience as a commercial pilot in the real world. But that's a completely different topic all together!!

This is not "the rules of the road", this is a serious business where getting busted does not mean you get a fine and couple of points on your license.

Also, Justhelicopters.com is the last place I'd go to for useful information!!

[fly911]

Expired medical - With 200 hours under his belt, let's hope that's his worse mistake. Aside from the accident, of course. I'm hoping that the insurance doesn't decide to deny the claim because of it.

[hihover]

I'm certain they will refuse any claim if they have the slightest cause. All the insurance policies I've ever seen have wording to the effect that "Any flying must be legal and meet all required regulations". That would include the pilot having a current licence (with appropriate medical).

Could this have been a private flight, for which he was medically current?

[Gordy]

hihover

Could this have been a private flight, for which he was medically current?

Direct from the report:

The purpose of the flight was for the passenger to film footage for a U.S. Forest Service documentary, specifically capturing the local “kudzu,” an invasive plant species.

This would NOT have been a US Forest Service flight, although could have been a USFS contract where the "contractor" is free to use what ever means possible.

[Raptor_]

Raptor---you are in correct. I still find it hard to believe that a school would allow an instructor to work there on a third class medical.

And this is still a moot point as on this case the pilot was conducting a photo/video shoot, therefore required to have a second class medical.

Call any FSDO and ask, it is legal. Would a school would hire someone with expired 2nd class or no medical? Itīs up to the school I guess, although I doubt they would. But I wasn't referring to the NC accident, just in general. If you own a helicopter and want to instruct in it, you can do so with a 3rd class medical and even no medical if the pilot you are instructing is the PIC, it legal. Is legal always safe and smart? No.

[hihover]

Gordy,

Yep, understand that, however, I'm trying to put the pieces together that would mitigate this pilot carrying out this task without a Class1/Class 2.

I am kind of hoping that this was a couple of buddies trying to do some filming that they would hope to make into a documentary......rather than a 134 and a half flight that went wrong.

tam

[fly911]

Public Aircraft

If this was a USFS contract, there could be a "Public Use Aircraft" loophole, with emphasis on could, as far as requiring a licensed pilot.
AC 00-1.1
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...E/AC00.1-1.pdf