Helicopters and Volcanic Ash?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Observations from a Back Garden
Seems to me, amongst the tales of peril and 'death to those that dare venture yonder', 'There be Dragons', etc, all we simply need is a change of wind.
Still no danger to health or environment (only jet engines at all levels!) and the London Marathon etc is still on. (should be interesting)
Is it me or are all the GA fraternity up and at it because they can? So much for the peace and quiet round these parts, can't hear my ice chinking in the Pimms.
Wish I was stuck abroad somewhere, what on Earth is Gary Lineker doing dragging his family 2058 miles over 24 hours travelling by plane, car and train to make it back from Tenerife in time to present Match of the Day.
In harmony, you can hear his 4 sons and daughter saying 'Thanks Dad' as they return to school tomorrow.
Hey ho, lets see what happens tonight.
Have a good week y'all.
Still no danger to health or environment (only jet engines at all levels!) and the London Marathon etc is still on. (should be interesting)
Is it me or are all the GA fraternity up and at it because they can? So much for the peace and quiet round these parts, can't hear my ice chinking in the Pimms.
Wish I was stuck abroad somewhere, what on Earth is Gary Lineker doing dragging his family 2058 miles over 24 hours travelling by plane, car and train to make it back from Tenerife in time to present Match of the Day.
In harmony, you can hear his 4 sons and daughter saying 'Thanks Dad' as they return to school tomorrow.
Hey ho, lets see what happens tonight.
Have a good week y'all.
Took this picture yesterday when I landed only 2NM away form crater, it was with National Geo making documentary about this eruption and troubles it caused in Europe. Bit of paradox here being able to land so close when most of your airspace is closed, ist better to be on right side when these go off.
The last wish of the Icelandic economy was to have it's ashes scattered over Europe
Last edited by rotorrookie; 18th Apr 2010 at 16:10.
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I think the things got lost in translation when we asked their banks for our cash back..
NATS announce UK airspace closed untill 07:00 at earliest, BA are flying a 747 to Cardiff from Heathrow to "test the air" with Willie Walsh onboard, I guess the cabin crews are interested in that flight and its outcome
NATS announce UK airspace closed untill 07:00 at earliest, BA are flying a 747 to Cardiff from Heathrow to "test the air" with Willie Walsh onboard, I guess the cabin crews are interested in that flight and its outcome
Tomo
Does this help ?
Not exactly contact info, but seems to imply private is ok.
Does this help ?
LFFA-A2295/10
A) LFBB LFEE LFFF LFMM LFRR
B) 2010 Apr 18 14:00 C) 2010 Apr 19 13:00
E) DUE TO ICELANDIC VOLCANO EYJAFJALLAJOKULL SIGNIFICANT VOLCANIC
ACTIVITY, VFR PUBLIC AIR TRANSPORT FLIGHTS AND ALSO ALL IFR FLIGHTS
ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN FRENCH AIRSPACE, FROM SURFACE TO FL205,
LOCATED ON NORTH OF A LINE BORDEAUX-MERIGNAC LFBD (4449N-00042W)/
NICE LFMN (4339N-00712E), EXCEPT FOR FLIGHTS CONDUCTING HUMAN SAFETY
OPERATIONS.
THE AERODROMES OF BORDEAUX-MERIGNAC (LFBD) AND NICE COTE D'AZUR
(LFMN) ARE NOT CONCERNED BY THESE RESTRICTIONS.
IT IS STRONGLY REQUIRED TO VFR FLIGHTS TO CONSULT SIGMET, NOTAM AND
ASHTAM BEFORE ANY FLIGHT.
PILOTS HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE PHENOMENOUS DANGEROUSNESS AND OF
THE RISKS FOR ANY ACFT ENTERING INTO THE VOLCANIC ASH CLOUD.
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE CONTAMINATED AREA IS NOT NECESSARILY
VISIBLE.
A) LFBB LFEE LFFF LFMM LFRR
B) 2010 Apr 18 14:00 C) 2010 Apr 19 13:00
E) DUE TO ICELANDIC VOLCANO EYJAFJALLAJOKULL SIGNIFICANT VOLCANIC
ACTIVITY, VFR PUBLIC AIR TRANSPORT FLIGHTS AND ALSO ALL IFR FLIGHTS
ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN FRENCH AIRSPACE, FROM SURFACE TO FL205,
LOCATED ON NORTH OF A LINE BORDEAUX-MERIGNAC LFBD (4449N-00042W)/
NICE LFMN (4339N-00712E), EXCEPT FOR FLIGHTS CONDUCTING HUMAN SAFETY
OPERATIONS.
THE AERODROMES OF BORDEAUX-MERIGNAC (LFBD) AND NICE COTE D'AZUR
(LFMN) ARE NOT CONCERNED BY THESE RESTRICTIONS.
IT IS STRONGLY REQUIRED TO VFR FLIGHTS TO CONSULT SIGMET, NOTAM AND
ASHTAM BEFORE ANY FLIGHT.
PILOTS HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE PHENOMENOUS DANGEROUSNESS AND OF
THE RISKS FOR ANY ACFT ENTERING INTO THE VOLCANIC ASH CLOUD.
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE CONTAMINATED AREA IS NOT NECESSARILY
VISIBLE.
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So, these restrictions are from surface level to flight level nose-bleed. Most offshore platforms rely on gas-turbine engines for their power supply - have they shut down? I don't think so! 
I've just watched a news conference with the European transport minister on the BBC - what a joke. I think there might be a few law suits flashing around "when the dust settles"
I've just watched a news conference with the European transport minister on the BBC - what a joke. I think there might be a few law suits flashing around "when the dust settles"
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Surely military and civil helos have been flying in recirculating dust for donkey's years in desert and unprepared sites. Has this ever caused significant engine problems?
I once did a stint of desert ops that involved 2 jetrangers operating for about 250/300hrs with extremely dusty conditions at each T/O and landing (average sector probably a bit under an hour) visibility in recirculating dust often 10m at touchdown.
The Chief Engineer's only comment on our return was that he'd never seen such clean engine internals.
I once did a stint of desert ops that involved 2 jetrangers operating for about 250/300hrs with extremely dusty conditions at each T/O and landing (average sector probably a bit under an hour) visibility in recirculating dust often 10m at touchdown.
The Chief Engineer's only comment on our return was that he'd never seen such clean engine internals.
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In Gulf War 1 there were two different models of Puma sand filters. One worked and one was hopeless, the bad ones caused a lot of engine damage. So yes, reciculating dust and sand does damage engines.
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I vaguely remember 2 hours engine life before noticeable power loss and over temping and 30 ish hours blade life. Personally, I'll give it a go but that is only because I do not have to pay for the maintenance costs
Volrider,
Exactly my point! So, do you think we should continue to hold ops in this area then?
The flight of KLM was checking diffrent altitudes up to FL300 over the Netherlands (it's not a big country I know well, but Germany is next door, so is Belgium which did their own tests) and ALL the routes into one of the biggest hubs in Europe go through that airspace, so what do you think is the NORMAL route? All routes via that little rock in the north-Atlantic?
What truth am I trying to cover?
Yeah, I think it should be a pressure on the authorities to conduct proper tests, that will show that it is justified danger.
Call me mad, but I don't sleep in full hockey-gear either....
Nubian, FYI The KLM 737 flew a great circle away from the the majority of the ash cloud
(not the planned route it would have normally taken)
But hey why let the truth get in the way
I think sadly commercial pressure will force this issue before the skys are clear
Call me mad, but I don't sleep in full hockey-gear either....
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discredited precautionary principle?
Another two years of this might induce someone to find out if there is actually a problem....
The government may become 'boxed in' by this if they are not careful ....
If it lasts much longer .... and eventually it is decided that it is infact ok to fly at these very very low contamination levels then the question will be how was the precautionary advice allowed to stand for so long.... at such a high cost.
It will be uncomfortable for a government to declare it is now ok to fly at these levels... leaving them open to be liable should that advice be wrong (they may have to 'underwrite' that green light for the sake of the economy?)
If this lasts much longer and it is discovered that there is a problem then mitigation measures will need to be developed..... what? Filters ... at those flow rates ... unlikely. Maybe mandatory inspections per flight in the 'red area' ?
50m quid spent finding out is cheap and it needs to have been done yesterday....
Didn't the 747 with the 4 flameouts fly through the dense main plume - millions of times greater concentration than this 8/8 ths blue sky. Totally different to this situation?
Maybe a SVFR in class A controlled airspace will allow airliners to 'see and avoid' dense volcanic ash plumes and thus alleviate the impossible task of controllers to provide separation from this hazard which is invisible to them.... ?
ICAO will be setup as the 'fall guy' if someone does positively determine that htere is no problem.
The government may become 'boxed in' by this if they are not careful ....
If it lasts much longer .... and eventually it is decided that it is infact ok to fly at these very very low contamination levels then the question will be how was the precautionary advice allowed to stand for so long.... at such a high cost.
It will be uncomfortable for a government to declare it is now ok to fly at these levels... leaving them open to be liable should that advice be wrong (they may have to 'underwrite' that green light for the sake of the economy?)
If this lasts much longer and it is discovered that there is a problem then mitigation measures will need to be developed..... what? Filters ... at those flow rates ... unlikely. Maybe mandatory inspections per flight in the 'red area' ?
50m quid spent finding out is cheap and it needs to have been done yesterday....
Didn't the 747 with the 4 flameouts fly through the dense main plume - millions of times greater concentration than this 8/8 ths blue sky. Totally different to this situation?
Maybe a SVFR in class A controlled airspace will allow airliners to 'see and avoid' dense volcanic ash plumes and thus alleviate the impossible task of controllers to provide separation from this hazard which is invisible to them.... ?
ICAO will be setup as the 'fall guy' if someone does positively determine that htere is no problem.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Grapevine has it that an ASU is operating a 'limited service' case by case.
Day VFR only, Night 'Cat A' tasking only.
Both engines for take off/landing/task but one put to idle for cruise.
In the event of 'abnormalities', Idle engine placed to Flight, Flight Engine placed to Idle, RTB.
Serve and Protect.
Day VFR only, Night 'Cat A' tasking only.
Both engines for take off/landing/task but one put to idle for cruise.
In the event of 'abnormalities', Idle engine placed to Flight, Flight Engine placed to Idle, RTB.
Serve and Protect.
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To those who won´t believe the dangers
Read this, I think it will show how dangerous volanic ash really is.
Should planes fly in Iceland volcano ash? Be careful, study says. / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
PM me if you want the NASA study in pdf, it is really interesting and an eye opener.
Should planes fly in Iceland volcano ash? Be careful, study says. / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
PM me if you want the NASA study in pdf, it is really interesting and an eye opener.
Last edited by alpineflyers; 18th Apr 2010 at 21:01.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Helicopters and Volcanic Ash?
alpineflyer,
Did you read the case study though?
"Engine Damage to a NASA DC-8-72
Airplane From a High-Altitude Encounter
With a Diffuse Volcanic Ash Cloud"
37,000ft.
I think that's a bit high for most helicopters!!
To those who won´t believe the dangers
"Engine Damage to a NASA DC-8-72
Airplane From a High-Altitude Encounter
With a Diffuse Volcanic Ash Cloud"
37,000ft.
I think that's a bit high for most helicopters!!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
how can you be sure there is no ash cloud at 2000 or 3000 feet?
The UK Health Protection Agency (HPA) has said that the cloud of ash from Iceland's recent volcanic eruption is not a significant public health risk.
The plume of volcanic ash has grounded flights across the UK, but the HPA says that it is "trapped" in the atmosphere at high altitude.
The plume of volcanic ash has grounded flights across the UK, but the HPA says that it is "trapped" in the atmosphere at high altitude.
Besides, I haven't heard of any cordoning off of Snowdon, Scafell or Ben Nevis...yet.
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Am I alone in feeling intensely uncomfortable that advice on flying thru ash is being promulgated by such scientific, rational and logic-based organizations as the Christian "Science" monitor, fer Chrissakes????
Why not enlist rational and qualified experts like Chemtrails or Rage against the Machine, or the Pope and the Moonies on this too???
Dear, oh Dear.
Why not enlist rational and qualified experts like Chemtrails or Rage against the Machine, or the Pope and the Moonies on this too???
Dear, oh Dear.
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update
Seems now the bloke who was doing the forecast has got his 3 yr old child to do it with a red crayon...
Not looking good
Image link: Met Office
Not looking good
Image link: Met Office
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 19th Apr 2010 at 07:33. Reason: Remove oversize image