Good work Coastguard......
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In The Trap, trapped.....
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good work Coastguard......
RAF left red-faced after mounting search for lost helicopter which ran out of fuel - The Daily Record
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...a-out-gas.html - Military Thread.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...a-out-gas.html - Military Thread.
RAF left red-faced after mounting search for lost helicopter which ran out of fuel
Mar 29 2010 By Craig McDonald
A HUGE search was launched for an RAF helicopter which ran out of fuel.
The Super Puma crew got caught out during a training exercise and had to land in a remote area, where they lost radio contact with their base.
A Coastguard helicopter was scrambled to find the chopper and around 50 rescue personnel joined the search.
When the Puma was found, the crew were so embarrassed they refused a lift back to their base and waited with the aircraft until it could be refuelled the following day.
A source told the Record: "There are some red faces over this one. It's a cock-up, plain and simple."
The Puma was on a navigation exercise in Ross-shire when the crew realised they didn't have enough fuel.
Air traffic controllers were informed that the chopper was landing near Loch Maree in Wester Ross and the Coastguard were called at 4.45pm.
As well as the Coastguard helicopter from Stornoway, rescue teams from Torridon, Loch Ewe, Gareloch, Kyle of Lochalsh and Ullapool joined the hunt.
Portree and Kyle lifeboats were launched and a Coastguard tug was put on standby.
A source said: "With any missing aircraft, the tactic is to saturate the area as quickly as possible.
"There would be dozens of personnel involved in the hunt - no one would have known if the Puma had crashed on land, ditched in the sea, or whatever."
The source added: "The helicopter was supposed to have been following a road between Applecross and Aultbea, in Ross-shire.
"They got a bit lost, which would not normally be a problem for a large military helicopter. But in this case they had only the minimum fuel.
"They apparently had just 27 minutes worth for the 20-mile planned route."
The missing chopper was eventually spotted just after 6pm.
The source said: "The Stornoway-based crew got there very quickly. They wondered why they were getting no explanation for the landing of the helicopter in such a remote area.
"They were told the eight people on board the Super Puma were fine and they did not want to be rescued. "
The crew remained with the chopper overnight before another helicopter was dispatched to refuel it. It returned to base at RAF Kinloss, Moray, on Saturday.
Yesterday, a Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said bad weather had caused the Super Puma's estimated journey time to increase.
But an aviation source described the failure to take enough fuel as "very embarrassing".
He said: "As cock-ups go, it's a classic. I can't say I've heard of it happening with such consequences before."
The MoD spokeswoman said an investigation would be held.
She said: "The Puma had to make an unscheduled landing.
"They either ran out of fuel or were about to run out of fuel.
"A localised search was quickly called off when the aircraft was located."
Maritime and Coastguard Agency spokesman Fred Caygill said: "We are pleased we were able to assist our colleagues in the RAF."
Mar 29 2010 By Craig McDonald
A HUGE search was launched for an RAF helicopter which ran out of fuel.
The Super Puma crew got caught out during a training exercise and had to land in a remote area, where they lost radio contact with their base.
A Coastguard helicopter was scrambled to find the chopper and around 50 rescue personnel joined the search.
When the Puma was found, the crew were so embarrassed they refused a lift back to their base and waited with the aircraft until it could be refuelled the following day.
A source told the Record: "There are some red faces over this one. It's a cock-up, plain and simple."
The Puma was on a navigation exercise in Ross-shire when the crew realised they didn't have enough fuel.
Air traffic controllers were informed that the chopper was landing near Loch Maree in Wester Ross and the Coastguard were called at 4.45pm.
As well as the Coastguard helicopter from Stornoway, rescue teams from Torridon, Loch Ewe, Gareloch, Kyle of Lochalsh and Ullapool joined the hunt.
Portree and Kyle lifeboats were launched and a Coastguard tug was put on standby.
A source said: "With any missing aircraft, the tactic is to saturate the area as quickly as possible.
"There would be dozens of personnel involved in the hunt - no one would have known if the Puma had crashed on land, ditched in the sea, or whatever."
The source added: "The helicopter was supposed to have been following a road between Applecross and Aultbea, in Ross-shire.
"They got a bit lost, which would not normally be a problem for a large military helicopter. But in this case they had only the minimum fuel.
"They apparently had just 27 minutes worth for the 20-mile planned route."
The missing chopper was eventually spotted just after 6pm.
The source said: "The Stornoway-based crew got there very quickly. They wondered why they were getting no explanation for the landing of the helicopter in such a remote area.
"They were told the eight people on board the Super Puma were fine and they did not want to be rescued. "
The crew remained with the chopper overnight before another helicopter was dispatched to refuel it. It returned to base at RAF Kinloss, Moray, on Saturday.
Yesterday, a Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said bad weather had caused the Super Puma's estimated journey time to increase.
But an aviation source described the failure to take enough fuel as "very embarrassing".
He said: "As cock-ups go, it's a classic. I can't say I've heard of it happening with such consequences before."
The MoD spokeswoman said an investigation would be held.
She said: "The Puma had to make an unscheduled landing.
"They either ran out of fuel or were about to run out of fuel.
"A localised search was quickly called off when the aircraft was located."
Maritime and Coastguard Agency spokesman Fred Caygill said: "We are pleased we were able to assist our colleagues in the RAF."
Last edited by pasptoo; 29th Mar 2010 at 22:28. Reason: Combining posts.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Somewhere
Age: 49
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did not relise the RAF had Super Pumas
Journalists are a bunch of Donkeys since last year with all the problems of the North Sea Puma fleet journalist will do anything to give these machines bad publicity.
What the don't relise is how many hours have been acheived in the span of nearly 20 years.
Journalists are a bunch of Donkeys since last year with all the problems of the North Sea Puma fleet journalist will do anything to give these machines bad publicity.
What the don't relise is how many hours have been acheived in the span of nearly 20 years.
I am amazed at the comments about this non-event.
The crew did the right thing which many low time civilian pilots should note - if in doubt LAND don't press on and end up a statistic.
There is no blame here and there won't be an inquiry and loss of seniority.
HF
The crew did the right thing which many low time civilian pilots should note - if in doubt LAND don't press on and end up a statistic.
There is no blame here and there won't be an inquiry and loss of seniority.
HF
So, all you low time civi pilots take note - take off with insufficient fuel, then become geographically confused whilst following a road from A to B - If in doubt dont get airborne!!!!!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The land of the cranberry
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No blame, the crew is to blame. They didn't prepare properly and bring enough fuel. Luckily it didn't cost the lives of the others on board.
Low time MILITARY pilots should also take note!!!
Low time MILITARY pilots should also take note!!!
Low fuel, two crew.
Hummingfrog,
if you were flying as a passenger on an airliner from afar back home and at best the plane had to divert to an airfield well short of it's destination, wait until the next day for an uplift of fuel before continuing onto it's original planned destination I am sure you would be a tad annoyed for incompetence.
Helicopters are lucky in that they can land in a field and a small one at that but that should never be relied on when planning, not that they did.
Many of us have been caught out, maybe low time civvies perhaps maybe not but a highly trained RAF two crew, hmmm I understand the questions being asked.
if you were flying as a passenger on an airliner from afar back home and at best the plane had to divert to an airfield well short of it's destination, wait until the next day for an uplift of fuel before continuing onto it's original planned destination I am sure you would be a tad annoyed for incompetence.
Helicopters are lucky in that they can land in a field and a small one at that but that should never be relied on when planning, not that they did.
Many of us have been caught out, maybe low time civvies perhaps maybe not but a highly trained RAF two crew, hmmm I understand the questions being asked.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stop slagging off this crew. I put a seaking in a field a few months ago as it was a simulated sarop and the weather meant we were flying too slow to make it safely to our destination. When the weather picked up off we popped.
Military flying is not just simple a to b in good weather. It does not stop when the weather gets a bit iffy and you may have to push fuel quantities to maximize the search, get mrt out, carry the extra good guys with the guns, whatever. And when did the met peeps get the forecast right anyway??
Military flying is not just simple a to b in good weather. It does not stop when the weather gets a bit iffy and you may have to push fuel quantities to maximize the search, get mrt out, carry the extra good guys with the guns, whatever. And when did the met peeps get the forecast right anyway??
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Journalists are a bunch of Donkeys
Just because you dont like what ONE journalist wrote dont tar everyone with the same brush. Some of us have actually written NICE things about the Puma.
Ned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK.
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes everyone, stop slagging off the crew.....they were very professional in getting lost (how many on board, surely one could read a map)?? Did someone mention "highly trained RAF crew"? I'm sorry, I shouldn't mock...I ALSO got lost once...I was map reading, single pilot in a non autopilot machine in crap weather with,oh, about 35 hrs T.T.!!!!!!!!!!
drugsdontwork, it's not just military flying that isn't just straight a-b...if I did this at work, I would be out of a job......
All joking aside, we all cock up now and then(this was a biggie though),glad all are safe and well, but lets be honest, they screwed up and they ARE solely responsible..
drugsdontwork, it's not just military flying that isn't just straight a-b...if I did this at work, I would be out of a job......
All joking aside, we all cock up now and then(this was a biggie though),glad all are safe and well, but lets be honest, they screwed up and they ARE solely responsible..
What a society we live in. Always look to blame somebody. Huge embarrasement for the crew and a lesson they will never forget. Come on folks give them a break, we all make mistakes.
Lesson
- plan route = sufficent fuel + reserve = completion of task.
As they say in Meerkat Manor 'Simples'
and a lesson they will never forget. Come on folks give them a break, we all make mistakes.Lesson
- plan route = sufficent fuel + reserve = completion of task. As they say in Meerkat Manor 'Simples'
I am still amazed at the drivel posted on here! The crew did exactly the right thing when caught out by the weather - told ATC they were landing.
Loch Maree is an inland freshwater loch so why were the
This whole episode has been blown out of all proportion by misinformed press which is highlighted by the quote above.
Sonas
Your comment shows a complete lack of knowledge of military flying
20 miles in a PUMA takes about 9 mins so he had plenty of fuel and a reserve - in fact he had just 5 mins less than I have to carry as a N Sea pilot at cruise consumption.
He landed because of the weather, a good captaincy call, as by pressing on he could have avoided the unknowledgeable comments on this forum but he could also have endangered his crew and pax.
jeepys
I am afraid you are wrong there. In the winter to get the task done you have to rely on using that option sometimes. On SAROPS I have landed in fields to let weather pass, on SH I diverted to Henlow - a grass strip because of unforecast clag and surprised OC Flying by ringing him up to inform him he now had a Wessex on his station - he was so happy to see a real helicopter parked outside that he bought me a beer!
I stand by my comment earlier - too many low time helicopter pilots press on when a landing would have been the better and safer option.
HF
Air traffic controllers were informed that the chopper was landing near Loch Maree in Wester Ross and the Coastguard were called at 4.45pm.
Portree and Kyle lifeboats were launched and a Coastguard tug was put on standby.
Sonas
Your comment shows a complete lack of knowledge of military flying
Lesson - plan route = sufficent fuel + reserve = completion of task
"They apparently had just 27 minutes worth for the 20-mile planned route."
He landed because of the weather, a good captaincy call, as by pressing on he could have avoided the unknowledgeable comments on this forum but he could also have endangered his crew and pax.
jeepys
but that should never be relied on when planning,
I stand by my comment earlier - too many low time helicopter pilots press on when a landing would have been the better and safer option.
HF
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If ATC were informed that the A/C was landing why was a search initiated ?. Surely the SAR co-ordinaters would have contacted ATC to see when & where they had lost contact with this missing A/C.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Gods country
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hummingfrog,
Im all for stickin up for my puma mates but lets take the facts for what they are:
The guys departed on a leg which is believed to be 20 miles. 20 miles as the crow flies, not following roads. If they were to follow roads from Applecross to Altbea the distance would be at least double that.
They had 27 mins fuel. Lets take it that this is useable fuel & not to tanks dry. Theres no way that these guys would be flying at 130kts(20 miles in 9mins) as you believe, low level in poor wx. More than likely they would be flying at a speed suitable for the conditions. Therefore not plenty of fuel & a reserve.
At some stage they would have approached their PNR and would have decided to push on or return. Or they would have reached Bingo fuel and turned back.
They landed the a/c because they had insufficient fuel to go any further. Land or fall from the sky - no captaincy decision req'd, just common sense, survival instinct. No other reason. Poor weather was only a cause for them to run low on fuel. As was the poor decision to push on, or even takeoff in the first place.
Were you ever SH?
You should have stayed Blue/Green for a little longer & learned a few things before prematurely pulling the Yellow & Black to go to pastures Greener.
Im all for stickin up for my puma mates but lets take the facts for what they are:
The guys departed on a leg which is believed to be 20 miles. 20 miles as the crow flies, not following roads. If they were to follow roads from Applecross to Altbea the distance would be at least double that.
They had 27 mins fuel. Lets take it that this is useable fuel & not to tanks dry. Theres no way that these guys would be flying at 130kts(20 miles in 9mins) as you believe, low level in poor wx. More than likely they would be flying at a speed suitable for the conditions. Therefore not plenty of fuel & a reserve.
At some stage they would have approached their PNR and would have decided to push on or return. Or they would have reached Bingo fuel and turned back.
They landed the a/c because they had insufficient fuel to go any further. Land or fall from the sky - no captaincy decision req'd, just common sense, survival instinct. No other reason. Poor weather was only a cause for them to run low on fuel. As was the poor decision to push on, or even takeoff in the first place.
Were you ever SH?
You should have stayed Blue/Green for a little longer & learned a few things before prematurely pulling the Yellow & Black to go to pastures Greener.
yonez, I couldn't agree more.
Perhaps the first post in reply to this article should have read:-
'Poor journalism once again. This Puma was the advance party landing at a pre recced exercise location. The a/c that joined them the following day was main party.'
Oh no that would never work. RAF, Field location, nobody would ever believe that. Aint a hotel for miles.
Ah well it was only a thought................
Perhaps the first post in reply to this article should have read:-
'Poor journalism once again. This Puma was the advance party landing at a pre recced exercise location. The a/c that joined them the following day was main party.'
Oh no that would never work. RAF, Field location, nobody would ever believe that. Aint a hotel for miles.
Ah well it was only a thought................
Yonez
I see you are an AAC pilot so would have thought that you would have had more experience of what faced this crew. You talk about PNR which is irrelevant in this case - PNR is used when over a hostile environment and you can't land - not applicable in this case. Your definition of PNR also assumes that there was fuel at their point of departure which is unlikely or else they would probably have been more fuel uplifted before departure.
When I flew SH (7yrs and a few thousand hrs in Germany and UK) the motto was never pass a bowser and I am sure that is true now. As you should also know getting reliable up to date weather info when lifting from a field site is difficult so we often lift only knowing what the local weather is.
This crew lifted with sufficient fuel for the route and were forced to do a precautionary landing because of the weather - no drama - been done lots of times in the past just hasn't made the papers.
This made me laugh as I have probably done just about anything that can be done with a helicopter from SAR display pilot, through Piper Alpha, lifting missiles for 51 Missile Regt, NI to bashing the radials out of Aberdeen after leaving the RAF at my NRD.
HF
I see you are an AAC pilot so would have thought that you would have had more experience of what faced this crew. You talk about PNR which is irrelevant in this case - PNR is used when over a hostile environment and you can't land - not applicable in this case. Your definition of PNR also assumes that there was fuel at their point of departure which is unlikely or else they would probably have been more fuel uplifted before departure.
When I flew SH (7yrs and a few thousand hrs in Germany and UK) the motto was never pass a bowser and I am sure that is true now. As you should also know getting reliable up to date weather info when lifting from a field site is difficult so we often lift only knowing what the local weather is.
This crew lifted with sufficient fuel for the route and were forced to do a precautionary landing because of the weather - no drama - been done lots of times in the past just hasn't made the papers.
You should have stayed Blue/Green for a little longer & learned a few things before prematurely pulling the Yellow & Black to go to pastures Greener.
HF