Helicopter needed for mercy mission in Fife area.
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Helicopter needed for mercy mission in Fife area.
Some of you may know me as one of the voices of "Scottish Information"......tonight I recieved a call from a collegue. Sadly one of our Controllers Father has gone missing in the area of the Ochills.....The local Police helicopter has been tasked to look but time is limited and so far no success. Through the course of my job I have made friends with many pilots and today I am asking for a favour.........if anyone reading this from PDG, Scotia or any private owner/operator what we need is someone maybe to offer their service's for an hour just to maybe give a sweep of the area.....it may not sound a lot but I am sure it would help with the grief the family are feeling at this time!........I have a few contact numbers I will try but this post is just incase I have missed anything or anyone.........please PM me or even call on 01292 313474....thanks for your time. Paul.
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The story is here but I understand the family think he may have wandered off into the Ochill hills.
Canal fears over missing man - Boness Today
Canal fears over missing man - Boness Today
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Many thanks for all the PM's and phone calls with offers of help........you all know who you are so a big thankyou....its good to see the pprune family pull together at a time like this and I know the offers of help are well appreciated by the family concerned.
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Paul, whilst I understand your concern, leave the police to get on and do their job with the most appropriate assets. Random searching is pointless and, in poor weather with untrained people, may be more hazardous to all concerned. Information/intelligence about the gentleman's likely movements is the only thing that will help find him and that seems to be exactly what the police are gathering.
Hop he turns up OK.
Hop he turns up OK.
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Crab,
Is there an RAT in place? No, at least, my quick NOTAM search didn't find one.
What airborne assets are in use? Are the police airborne 24/7? You are obviously not.
I think you are being just too precious. If someone can get airborne (in class G airspace), and offer a couple of pairs of eyes, good on them. I'd do it myself if I was in a position to go.
Is there an RAT in place? No, at least, my quick NOTAM search didn't find one.
What airborne assets are in use? Are the police airborne 24/7? You are obviously not.
I think you are being just too precious. If someone can get airborne (in class G airspace), and offer a couple of pairs of eyes, good on them. I'd do it myself if I was in a position to go.
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Crab....
You try telling that to the family............my request on here provided some useful help from people that fully understand the situation and I and the family are grateful for that...!!
leave the police to get on and do their job with the most appropriate assets. Random searching is pointless
You try telling that to the family............my request on here provided some useful help from people that fully understand the situation and I and the family are grateful for that...!!
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I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with anything Crab has said.
However, he makes a valid point here. The Police helicopter crew will take some time to workout where to search based on many intelligence inputs. Random searching is seldom friutful.
In this case though it will not do much harm as long as they do not get in the way of Strathclyde Police ASU trying to carry out a search. This is not likely though as this is not in their force area and unfortunatly they are the only Police ASU in Scotland.
Sorry to hear about this case and hope he is found safe and well
However, he makes a valid point here. The Police helicopter crew will take some time to workout where to search based on many intelligence inputs. Random searching is seldom friutful.
In this case though it will not do much harm as long as they do not get in the way of Strathclyde Police ASU trying to carry out a search. This is not likely though as this is not in their force area and unfortunatly they are the only Police ASU in Scotland.
Sorry to hear about this case and hope he is found safe and well
Typical Crab 
You havent lost your touch of alienating all pilots who are not ex mil nvg etc etc If you are given an area to fly over then subject to sensible weather anyone would be capable ...however with all this snow it probably now is not practical . Good luck anyway N
You havent lost your touch of alienating all pilots who are not ex mil nvg etc etc If you are given an area to fly over then subject to sensible weather anyone would be capable ...however with all this snow it probably now is not practical . Good luck anyway N
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JIVA.......
Police 51 did indeed do a search of the Ochills 4 days ago but time was limited....all the family wanted was a chance to take a second look........today that was achieved so a big thanks to one and all that made this possible....I know the time and effort was appreciated
The Police helicopter crew will take some time to workout where to search based on many intelligence inputs
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Paul, I hope this ends up well.
Nigelh,
You clearly show your ignorance of this subject matter. I would like to know what qualifies you to 'have a go' at crab@, bearing in mind his profile.
Do you not realise that it is not a simple mission looking for a misper, it involves knowing where/what/how based on the updates and inputs from qualified and experienced people on the ground coordinating the search. Obviously your chipped shoulder obscures your view, as it has nothing to do with being mil/ex-mil. Come on show us your knowledge base, are all police pilots ex-mil?
In your mind it would have nothing to do with communication/coordination of assets both ground and air/thermal cameras/misper procedures and practises, but simply 'have a looksie' and maybe lady luck will shine.
You would have every available ac searching the area, eliminating every blob amongst the snow, what a waste of time and what could a non equipped aircraft really achieve above 500ft?
I could go on, I will.
I wish you had read Pauls last post and the the link he gave.
Appeal for missing businessman | Scotland | STV News
In it you would read,
Assuming the canal has been walked and this is the int you have to go on....your call!
edit
Oh yes.....and before your Squadron deploys alles uber die platz, experience gave this piece in the article;
Nigelh,
You clearly show your ignorance of this subject matter. I would like to know what qualifies you to 'have a go' at crab@, bearing in mind his profile.
Do you not realise that it is not a simple mission looking for a misper, it involves knowing where/what/how based on the updates and inputs from qualified and experienced people on the ground coordinating the search. Obviously your chipped shoulder obscures your view, as it has nothing to do with being mil/ex-mil. Come on show us your knowledge base, are all police pilots ex-mil?
In your mind it would have nothing to do with communication/coordination of assets both ground and air/thermal cameras/misper procedures and practises, but simply 'have a looksie' and maybe lady luck will shine.
You would have every available ac searching the area, eliminating every blob amongst the snow, what a waste of time and what could a non equipped aircraft really achieve above 500ft?
I could go on, I will.
I wish you had read Pauls last post and the the link he gave.
Appeal for missing businessman | Scotland | STV News
In it you would read,
His wife said he was dressed for the conditions.
When he left home, four days ago, he is understood to have told his wife that he intended to catch a train from nearby Polmont Railway Station.
He is a regular hillwalker and climber.
He was also known to walk to work along the Union Canal
When he left home, four days ago, he is understood to have told his wife that he intended to catch a train from nearby Polmont Railway Station.
He is a regular hillwalker and climber.
He was also known to walk to work along the Union Canal
edit
Oh yes.....and before your Squadron deploys alles uber die platz, experience gave this piece in the article;
police urge hoteliers across the country to check their records to see if Mr Ainsworth, a keen hillwalker, may have checked in or out in recent days.
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 10th Jan 2010 at 20:37.
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Guys,
I think we are all getting our feathers a little rustled over something that we may or may not know too much about. I think as suggested earlier the family were looking for piece of mind and they now have this to a certain extent. What was done or not done or how it was done is not really a concern of anyone but the police, mountain rescue and any other rescuers involved. We all hope this ends well. Lets not have this unfortunate incident degrade into a pprune slagging match.
Safe Flying,
S61fun
I think we are all getting our feathers a little rustled over something that we may or may not know too much about. I think as suggested earlier the family were looking for piece of mind and they now have this to a certain extent. What was done or not done or how it was done is not really a concern of anyone but the police, mountain rescue and any other rescuers involved. We all hope this ends well. Lets not have this unfortunate incident degrade into a pprune slagging match.
Safe Flying,
S61fun
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Agreed,
Whether or not the request for assistance was answered, and regardless of whether or not the request was even sensible or appropriate, in times of urgency you will try anything - and there is nothing wrong with that.
If I could have done I would have helped and many people would say that the efforts would almost certainly have been wasted, however, the family would have at least felt there was another chance of a happy ending.
I'm certain the Emergency Services were doing all they could but there is no harm in looking at other avenues at times like this.
Let's hope there is a happy ending.
Joel
Whether or not the request for assistance was answered, and regardless of whether or not the request was even sensible or appropriate, in times of urgency you will try anything - and there is nothing wrong with that.
If I could have done I would have helped and many people would say that the efforts would almost certainly have been wasted, however, the family would have at least felt there was another chance of a happy ending.
I'm certain the Emergency Services were doing all they could but there is no harm in looking at other avenues at times like this.
Let's hope there is a happy ending.
Joel
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Just to put the record straight and maybe in an attempt to stop any mud slinging.
I posted this post not as an average poster on the street....For the past 38 years I have worked in Air Traffic control, for 15 of those years I have worked in a search and rescue environment that has helped me understand how the system works!!
I was asked to help as through my present job at "Scottish Information" I have made some very good friends in the light aviation sector...a few who are owner operators of helo type aircraft. The missing person is the Father in law of one of our ATC centres young controllers and his "watch" wanted to be seen to do something to help....clutching at straws maybe, but well worth a shot.
At no time by the authorities has this been a search and rescue mission it has only been treated by the police as a missing person enquiry hense the reason I guess there has been no military involvement through RCC.
Before you all continue to throw mud at each other dont forget that most of us Air Traffikers are frequent user's of PPRUNE and hence it is possible those closely affected by this may read this post!!
Finally I will state again a huge thank you to those of you that rallied the troops to help....you know who you are and we will be in debt to you for ever......
Now I must head off and do some air traffiking!!
I posted this post not as an average poster on the street....For the past 38 years I have worked in Air Traffic control, for 15 of those years I have worked in a search and rescue environment that has helped me understand how the system works!!
I was asked to help as through my present job at "Scottish Information" I have made some very good friends in the light aviation sector...a few who are owner operators of helo type aircraft. The missing person is the Father in law of one of our ATC centres young controllers and his "watch" wanted to be seen to do something to help....clutching at straws maybe, but well worth a shot.
At no time by the authorities has this been a search and rescue mission it has only been treated by the police as a missing person enquiry hense the reason I guess there has been no military involvement through RCC.
Before you all continue to throw mud at each other dont forget that most of us Air Traffikers are frequent user's of PPRUNE and hence it is possible those closely affected by this may read this post!!
Finally I will state again a huge thank you to those of you that rallied the troops to help....you know who you are and we will be in debt to you for ever......
Now I must head off and do some air traffiking!!
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FBW
Most human beings worth a light would applaud you for your action, I certainly do and I wish I had been nearer to you to be of assistance. It is in your nature as an ATC officer to help people and you will just have to ignore the stupid, mindless and selfish comments made by Crab and his mate. Keep doing what you are doing and I hope it ends with a favourable result. I hope Crab never needs your or ATC's help to save his arse!
Most human beings worth a light would applaud you for your action, I certainly do and I wish I had been nearer to you to be of assistance. It is in your nature as an ATC officer to help people and you will just have to ignore the stupid, mindless and selfish comments made by Crab and his mate. Keep doing what you are doing and I hope it ends with a favourable result. I hope Crab never needs your or ATC's help to save his arse!
Silsoe ....i assume "misper" is what the "experts" call a missing person 
I was not referring to all police pilots , just Crab , who is obviously so very ex mil ,regarding all other forms of pilot as unqualified !! I would be very pleased to have another pair of eyes ( even unqualified ones ) looking for me if i was missing on a hill etc also in the past even as a civilian i have been asked by atc to look for an accident site on a hill and was happy to help.
nigelh,
Your desire to continue your misguided criticism of crab, who is currently on detachment to the Falklands, has gone beyond what is reasonable. Your other posts have been deleted: I suggest that you stick to the thread subject if you want to contribute further to this discussion.
Senior Pilot
I was not referring to all police pilots , just Crab , who is obviously so very ex mil ,regarding all other forms of pilot as unqualified !! I would be very pleased to have another pair of eyes ( even unqualified ones ) looking for me if i was missing on a hill etc also in the past even as a civilian i have been asked by atc to look for an accident site on a hill and was happy to help.nigelh,
Your desire to continue your misguided criticism of crab, who is currently on detachment to the Falklands, has gone beyond what is reasonable. Your other posts have been deleted: I suggest that you stick to the thread subject if you want to contribute further to this discussion.
Senior Pilot
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Nigelh,
Crab isn't ex-mil!
As for tar, all being brushed with the same ... please do note that not all ex-mil pilots hold the same views!
Crab isn't ex-mil!
As for tar, all being brushed with the same ... please do note that not all ex-mil pilots hold the same views!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Paul, in no way am I condemning your request, in fact think it is indeed a reasonable one.
There is of course no problem at all in anyone in the area giving a lookout. The problem as far as I see it would be the possibility of some flyers seeing it as a justifiable reason to bend a few rules and while doing that confusing any other 'searchers' who may think these aircraft are officially involved in the search and want to get in contact with them directly.
I really cannot see what Nigel has got his head on fire for;
crab@
Nigelh
Where do you get the ex-mil pilots thing from?
Who is actually operating with NVG in the civvy world? (leading question)
Random searching IS pointless.
In this poor weather, untrained/unpractised people WILL be more hazardous.
Information/Intelligence IS the only thing that will help find him.
Nigelh;
You really like showing how ignorant you are and have a burning desire to continue this thread in the tone that you created.
That's what the official abbreviation for a missing person is.
Crab@ is not a Police pilot, nor is he ex-mil.
Not all Police pilots are ex-mil.
Well done on helping out....above 500ft, aware of all the dangers of mountain/hill flying while still flying the aircraft safely!
What is the difference betweeen qualified and qualified, in your eyes? There is a difference in training and experience though!
Golfer,
And what do you think crab does and what do you think I'd be doing?
Apart from being a most disgusting comment to make, I think you'll find crab@ would be the one risking his neck to do the saving, as he does every duty day!
There is of course no problem at all in anyone in the area giving a lookout. The problem as far as I see it would be the possibility of some flyers seeing it as a justifiable reason to bend a few rules and while doing that confusing any other 'searchers' who may think these aircraft are officially involved in the search and want to get in contact with them directly.
I really cannot see what Nigel has got his head on fire for;
crab@
Paul, whilst I understand your concern, leave the police to get on and do their job with the most appropriate assets. Random searching is pointless and, in poor weather with untrained people, may be more hazardous to all concerned. Information/intelligence about the gentleman's likely movements is the only thing that will help find him and that seems to be exactly what the police are gathering.
Typical Crab You havent lost your touch of alienating all pilots who are not ex mil nvg etc etc If you are given an area to fly over then subject to sensible weather anyone would be capable ...however with all this snow it probably now is not practical .
You havent lost your touch of alienating all pilots who are not ex mil nvg etc etc If you are given an area to fly over then subject to sensible weather anyone would be capable ...however with all this snow it probably now is not practical .
Who is actually operating with NVG in the civvy world? (leading question)
Random searching IS pointless.
In this poor weather, untrained/unpractised people WILL be more hazardous.
Information/Intelligence IS the only thing that will help find him.
Nigelh;
You really like showing how ignorant you are and have a burning desire to continue this thread in the tone that you created.
Silsoe ....i assume "misper" is what the "experts" call a missing person I was not referring to all police pilots , just Crab , who is obviously so very ex mil ,regarding all other forms of pilot as unqualified !! I would be very pleased to have another pair of eyes ( even unqualified ones ) looking for me if i was missing on a hill etc also in the past even as a civilian i have been asked by atc to look for an accident site on a hill and was happy to help.
I was not referring to all police pilots , just Crab , who is obviously so very ex mil ,regarding all other forms of pilot as unqualified !! I would be very pleased to have another pair of eyes ( even unqualified ones ) looking for me if i was missing on a hill etc also in the past even as a civilian i have been asked by atc to look for an accident site on a hill and was happy to help.
Crab@ is not a Police pilot, nor is he ex-mil.
Not all Police pilots are ex-mil.
Well done on helping out....above 500ft, aware of all the dangers of mountain/hill flying while still flying the aircraft safely!
What is the difference betweeen qualified and qualified, in your eyes? There is a difference in training and experience though!
Golfer,
It is in your nature as an ATC officer to help people and you will just have to ignore the stupid, mindless and selfish comments made by Crab and his mate.
I hope Crab never needs your or ATC's help to save his arse!