Anti-Authority personality types
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Washington USA
Age: 53
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Advisory circular
Have you seen the AC on personality types? It is a very old one, but it goes into the personality types deeper than any other pub I've seen. Let me know if you don't have it and I can email it to you.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allow me to stir the pot here. 
Hm. Define, please, "anti-authority personality types".
Are we talking:
good pilots who hate dubious, gray, confusing rules, and who are suspicious of "authority"
or
bad pilots who hate good rules, because they detest "authority" on principle, and think they are so good they don't need rules
or
bad pilots who hate everybody? (kidding)
And the goal of this post is to look at what? Recklessness in helicopter aviation? Risk-taking? Overconfidence? A personality study?
The original post intrigues me, but I'm not sure I get the drift.
(PS: I own and like your book)
Hm. Define, please, "anti-authority personality types".
Are we talking:
good pilots who hate dubious, gray, confusing rules, and who are suspicious of "authority"
or
bad pilots who hate good rules, because they detest "authority" on principle, and think they are so good they don't need rules
or
bad pilots who hate everybody? (kidding)
And the goal of this post is to look at what? Recklessness in helicopter aviation? Risk-taking? Overconfidence? A personality study?
The original post intrigues me, but I'm not sure I get the drift.
(PS: I own and like your book)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Asia
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'B' gets my vote!
If the answer is 'B' then I know a lot of those.
I was even tempted to say that I know where you can find a whole company full of them, but I will resist the temptation!
I was even tempted to say that I know where you can find a whole company full of them, but I will resist the temptation!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Anti-Authority personality types
Just wondering if there is any good info on anti-authority personality types in aviation?
Just wondering if there is any good info on anti-authority personality types in aviation?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: miami
Age: 54
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The USMC has a program called E-CRM. There is an entire section of this sectionalized approach to CRM on what is titled Hazardous Attitudes. If you have any pals in that circle, a squadron Flight Safety Officer may be able to give you more insight. PM me if you have further questions. I have attended the course, and this topic is quite well done.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting. I can think of so many colorful personalities I've met in our industry.
Well, what questions might one ask, that highlight the essence of the research area?
If I may, I'll suggest some:
1) are anti-authority personality types common in the helicopter industry?
2) do anti-authority personality types have different accident rates?
3) are anti-authority personality traits always a negative factor?
I'm sure there are many more, but for what it's worth, my answers would be:
1) yes, very common; varies depending on helicopter field
2) they probably have slightly higher accident rates
3) no. I can't really imagine attributes such as 'independent decision making skills', and 'willingness to assume command' being present without some degree of 'spirit' and 'independence' which -at times- will clash with authority. The best leaders are not the former best Altar boys. Bombastic authority will aggravate the problem.
???
Well, what questions might one ask, that highlight the essence of the research area?
If I may, I'll suggest some:
1) are anti-authority personality types common in the helicopter industry?
2) do anti-authority personality types have different accident rates?
3) are anti-authority personality traits always a negative factor?
I'm sure there are many more, but for what it's worth, my answers would be:
1) yes, very common; varies depending on helicopter field
2) they probably have slightly higher accident rates
3) no. I can't really imagine attributes such as 'independent decision making skills', and 'willingness to assume command' being present without some degree of 'spirit' and 'independence' which -at times- will clash with authority. The best leaders are not the former best Altar boys. Bombastic authority will aggravate the problem.
???
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In a glass house
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess that neither the general public nor the IHST will ever know whether the anti-authoritarian has a higher accident rate or not as the accident would never be reported.
As one of the characteristics of this type is to know better than anyone who has ever been remotely connected with authority, or even ‘the authority’, he does not recognize pushy management or awkward customers. He just does his own thing.
As one of the characteristics of this type is to know better than anyone who has ever been remotely connected with authority, or even ‘the authority’, he does not recognize pushy management or awkward customers. He just does his own thing.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LEAX, Spain
Age: 62
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm feeling pretty anti-authority at the moment...what do you want to know?
CAA said long ago I couldn't fly, then said 'Whoops, sorry, we were wrong,' but only after it was too late to start a career. AAIB didn't even give me a first interview despite almost exactly matching their ad requirements. NATS did likewise on the basis of eyesight despite holding a JAA Class-1 medical (probably that was the age thing they later got done for), and then CAA refused to even slightly bend a pointless time rule on ground exam validity for a set of exams that were only there to cover the fact they'd buggered up the real ones earlier.
So, okay, I got the authorities' message...I'm not wanted.
I'm going to go away and sulk in a corner now.
Dan
CAA said long ago I couldn't fly, then said 'Whoops, sorry, we were wrong,' but only after it was too late to start a career. AAIB didn't even give me a first interview despite almost exactly matching their ad requirements. NATS did likewise on the basis of eyesight despite holding a JAA Class-1 medical (probably that was the age thing they later got done for), and then CAA refused to even slightly bend a pointless time rule on ground exam validity for a set of exams that were only there to cover the fact they'd buggered up the real ones earlier.
So, okay, I got the authorities' message...I'm not wanted.
I'm going to go away and sulk in a corner now.
Dan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are 3 jobs that uniquely share similar characteristics:
Pilots
Chefs
Doctors
Tends towards introspection, shroud waving, preference for self-regulation...and they control costs and quality/safety away from base. They are also usually highest paid in the organisation too.
To use an American phrase - "a goat rodeo..."
Pilots
Chefs
Doctors
Tends towards introspection, shroud waving, preference for self-regulation...and they control costs and quality/safety away from base. They are also usually highest paid in the organisation too.
To use an American phrase - "a goat rodeo..."
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Phrogman is closest to what I feel needs saying here, now that I have thought a little more about it that is.
I have encountered in the past at least three people who exhibited very strongly what I would call, fatalistic attitudes.
I am talking about very senior people here, as much if not more than I. At the time I felt that I should excert influences or programming to protect them, I.E. this is pretty serious stuff.
As most would know, when you either employ people or act as an overseer for others who do employ people then you are also always watching them and the bosses themselves, for their capacity of responsibility, inter-reaction with other staff and general demeanour. Mostly it is always people that are most closely watched who don't have the worry about pecunary return; that is they are salary people.
I do know of one person who went on to prove his fatalistic attitude, which is usually a very high risk taking syndrome, and killed himself in so doing. Outwards and otherwise a very, very, capable driver.
He chanced Himself between two trees, outbound in the morning, yep all OK, but coming home that afternoon, he tried the same trick and bingo!
There have been at least one or two others who simply got through the net, which was usually the big discussion periods between the chief honchos and who made mistakes that I feel we could have picked up earlier with more surveillance.
It's no use crying over spilt milk, that is the nature of Airwork Operations when every one wants action, action, action.
I hope this helps
cheers tet
I have encountered in the past at least three people who exhibited very strongly what I would call, fatalistic attitudes.
I am talking about very senior people here, as much if not more than I. At the time I felt that I should excert influences or programming to protect them, I.E. this is pretty serious stuff.
As most would know, when you either employ people or act as an overseer for others who do employ people then you are also always watching them and the bosses themselves, for their capacity of responsibility, inter-reaction with other staff and general demeanour. Mostly it is always people that are most closely watched who don't have the worry about pecunary return; that is they are salary people.
I do know of one person who went on to prove his fatalistic attitude, which is usually a very high risk taking syndrome, and killed himself in so doing. Outwards and otherwise a very, very, capable driver.
He chanced Himself between two trees, outbound in the morning, yep all OK, but coming home that afternoon, he tried the same trick and bingo!
There have been at least one or two others who simply got through the net, which was usually the big discussion periods between the chief honchos and who made mistakes that I feel we could have picked up earlier with more surveillance.
It's no use crying over spilt milk, that is the nature of Airwork Operations when every one wants action, action, action.
I hope this helps
cheers tet
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Asia
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once upon a time, not so long ago, I attended a presentation given by some test pilot ‘chappie’, cum book seller, with a Canadian accent and an Irish name.
I definitely detected some anti-authoritarian traits when he got to talking about the FAA Medical Assessors.
I definitely detected some anti-authoritarian traits when he got to talking about the FAA Medical Assessors.
Marines....hazardous attitudes?
Let me get this straight....guys who think it brilliant to charge across open beaches littered with landmines, against fortified positions with lots and lots of automatic weapons, surrounded by barbed wire and other obstacles.....counsel each other on hazardous attitudes????
Let me get this straight....guys who think it brilliant to charge across open beaches littered with landmines, against fortified positions with lots and lots of automatic weapons, surrounded by barbed wire and other obstacles.....counsel each other on hazardous attitudes????
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: miami
Age: 54
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASLESS, I get what you are saying, it does sound kind of ironic. However, the guys counseling each other on hazardous attitudes are the ones who opted to study a little harder in order to have the opportunity to fly over those said death traps known as the beach head. And to take it further, the brain washing at Quantico didn't seem to overcome their overwhelming desire to crawl in a machine that can challenge most physics students in explaining why it flys in the first place.
What was quite entertaining in the presentation was how visceral the contract instructors were in pointing out those personalities that got those "sound instruments of death" killed without an opportunity to demonstrate their learned profession doing things they really had no business doing. Such events were led with a motivation that was likely started with a brew of something they saw in movie and their own insecurities or a feeling that they had a lack of recognition for what a great pilot they were.
All humor aside, the materiel wasn't USMC specific, in fact it covered the full gamut of personality traits. Sure you had reference to movies like the "Great Santinni", but it went on to the guy who is demeaning to anyone as much as one day junior to himself (who may live in any military service or airline industry).
I will try and get a copy of the presentation and present the topics, however the overall content may be proprietary.
What was quite entertaining in the presentation was how visceral the contract instructors were in pointing out those personalities that got those "sound instruments of death" killed without an opportunity to demonstrate their learned profession doing things they really had no business doing. Such events were led with a motivation that was likely started with a brew of something they saw in movie and their own insecurities or a feeling that they had a lack of recognition for what a great pilot they were.
All humor aside, the materiel wasn't USMC specific, in fact it covered the full gamut of personality traits. Sure you had reference to movies like the "Great Santinni", but it went on to the guy who is demeaning to anyone as much as one day junior to himself (who may live in any military service or airline industry).
I will try and get a copy of the presentation and present the topics, however the overall content may be proprietary.