Hughes/MD 500
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: East of the sun, west of the moon, straight on till morning
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H500, I know a company that shall remain nameless that balances the disk by modifying tip weights 
This one's probably a bit off on the tip weights since I've touched up the l/e paint a couple times now. Lateral balance shows to be good though. I'll pull up the MicroVib data and see what the lead/lag looks like. I did touch-up the paint on 2 of the tail rotor blades and used a postal scale to get the tip weights within 2 grams of each other. They only took 3.5 grams to balance at 100% so pretty happy there. I reckon the idea of starting with equal tip weight, main and tail, is spot on. 
Thing is, the same set of blades were smooth as glass two years ago before we changed the head. I dunno but a 5P being .579 seems awfully high. Funny thing is how many folks don't know the difference between the 1P and the 5P.
I've got the question out to DSS and the factory. We'll see if they come up with anything.
Ah now the EC135, been trying to get my hands on one of those for a few years now. Seems no one wants to let you touch them without prior experience
This one's probably a bit off on the tip weights since I've touched up the l/e paint a couple times now. Lateral balance shows to be good though. I'll pull up the MicroVib data and see what the lead/lag looks like. I did touch-up the paint on 2 of the tail rotor blades and used a postal scale to get the tip weights within 2 grams of each other. They only took 3.5 grams to balance at 100% so pretty happy there. I reckon the idea of starting with equal tip weight, main and tail, is spot on. Thing is, the same set of blades were smooth as glass two years ago before we changed the head. I dunno but a 5P being .579 seems awfully high. Funny thing is how many folks don't know the difference between the 1P and the 5P.
I've got the question out to DSS and the factory. We'll see if they come up with anything.Ah now the EC135, been trying to get my hands on one of those for a few years now. Seems no one wants to let you touch them without prior experience
Last edited by fling-wing_1; 3rd May 2010 at 21:37.
Seems no one wants to let you touch them without prior experience
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Yep, those crazy, wacky, Americans. Why, they'll let anybody with a license work on just about anything! And the accident rate is...why just about the same as other countries with their draconian regs 
Why you would ever think to let a guy with experience on everything from C150's to G350's and BO105's to TwinStar's even touch a precious 135 is beyond me. I bet I couldn't even figure out how to unlock the doors
Thank God for the HR folks otherwise the aviation industry in this country would be on a one way ticket to oblivion!
Seriously though, it isn't like these things are going to the moon. If the engineers would share just a bit of their info we all might be a bit better off. It ain't rocket science what the blade shops are doing. If they would tell us in the field what they do to the blades as far as balance goes, we all might be a bit better off.
Why you would ever think to let a guy with experience on everything from C150's to G350's and BO105's to TwinStar's even touch a precious 135 is beyond me. I bet I couldn't even figure out how to unlock the doors
Thank God for the HR folks otherwise the aviation industry in this country would be on a one way ticket to oblivion!
Seriously though, it isn't like these things are going to the moon. If the engineers would share just a bit of their info we all might be a bit better off. It ain't rocket science what the blade shops are doing. If they would tell us in the field what they do to the blades as far as balance goes, we all might be a bit better off.
Last edited by fling-wing_1; 4th May 2010 at 00:08.
Price was around £13.k Fob AU if I remember ( I await correction) & that was 2 years ago + at the time they had no data for the 500s.
Fling-wing1
How do you find the DDS, both for ease of use & service are you part of the UK agents
Fling-wing1
How do you find the DDS, both for ease of use & service are you part of the UK agents
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RVDT, thanks for the link - brilliant stuff! Just the type of thing I enjoy reading Sorry bout the post the other night, no offense meant. Was feeling a bit cheeky, couple glasses of wine will do that I agree, it's not unreasonable to want folks with experience working on your ship. I do think a zero tolerance policy often misses the boat though. A person's background and experience should be factored in before making a decision. Factory training goes a long way to help with that situation. However, there's a lot to be said for the knowledge learned in a mentoring situation as well.
500e, I'm doing contract work in the states right now so can't comment on the situation in the UK at the moment. DSS support is great. They don't always have an answer but they will try hard to find one for you. Pretty knowledgeable folks as to track and balance too. I've never been disappointed in the level of support and help they've offered. The MicroVib takes a bit to get used to but it's pretty user intuitive once you get the basics down. The processor is pretty old so it's a bit slow compared to the Chadwick 2000. I hear a new one is coming out one of these days but they won't provide upgrades so you'll need to buy a new unit. 12-13,000 USD is out the door price these days so I hear. I bought mine used a few years ago so not up to speed on current pricing. Overall, I'm quite happy with mine as well as the level of support. Never had a problem getting info (group files and machine files) for the 500's. DSS guys are quite up to speed on balancing the 500 as well. Got a buddy who claims a DSS rep came out and had a D model like glass in 5 runs using the computer solutions. Never worked for me but then I tend to not use the computer as much as the track data. Never had the DSS training though.
Here's the lastest:
Talked with some folks over the last couple days and here's what we came up with for those who might care...
The DSS and factory folks say the 5P is usually somewhere around .2 to .3 but can be as high as .5 to .6 ips on the 500.
On this heli, a 5P of .58 ips is the what we have right now. Since the human body is more sensitive to the 1P which occurs at 487 cycles per minute (main rotor rpm) , the answer is to roughen up the ride by throwing a blade out of track so the 1P increases up to around .2 to .3. This has the effect of fooling the body into not noticing the 5P, which occurs at 2428 cycles per minute, as much.
I still wonder why changing the head would increase the 5P so much but so far no one has been able to give a good answer. Too bad there seems to be no way to modify the 5P which is the naturally occurring vibe of each blade.
Thanks for all the input and ideas over the weekend. Sure would love to hear from some of the guru's like Shawn and Nick, 
Sorry bout the post the other night, no offense meant. Was feeling a bit cheeky, couple glasses of wine will do that I agree, it's not unreasonable to want folks with experience working on your ship. I do think a zero tolerance policy often misses the boat though. A person's background and experience should be factored in before making a decision. Factory training goes a long way to help with that situation. However, there's a lot to be said for the knowledge learned in a mentoring situation as well.500e, I'm doing contract work in the states right now so can't comment on the situation in the UK at the moment. DSS support is great. They don't always have an answer but they will try hard to find one for you. Pretty knowledgeable folks as to track and balance too. I've never been disappointed in the level of support and help they've offered. The MicroVib takes a bit to get used to but it's pretty user intuitive once you get the basics down. The processor is pretty old so it's a bit slow compared to the Chadwick 2000. I hear a new one is coming out one of these days but they won't provide upgrades so you'll need to buy a new unit.
12-13,000 USD is out the door price these days so I hear. I bought mine used a few years ago so not up to speed on current pricing. Overall, I'm quite happy with mine as well as the level of support. Never had a problem getting info (group files and machine files) for the 500's. DSS guys are quite up to speed on balancing the 500 as well. Got a buddy who claims a DSS rep came out and had a D model like glass in 5 runs using the computer solutions. Never worked for me but then I tend to not use the computer as much as the track data. Never had the DSS training though. Here's the lastest:
Talked with some folks over the last couple days and here's what we came up with for those who might care...
The DSS and factory folks say the 5P is usually somewhere around .2 to .3 but can be as high as .5 to .6 ips on the 500.
On this heli, a 5P of .58 ips is the what we have right now. Since the human body is more sensitive to the 1P which occurs at 487 cycles per minute (main rotor rpm) , the answer is to roughen up the ride by throwing a blade out of track so the 1P increases up to around .2 to .3. This has the effect of fooling the body into not noticing the 5P, which occurs at 2428 cycles per minute, as much.
I still wonder why changing the head would increase the 5P so much but so far no one has been able to give a good answer. Too bad there seems to be no way to modify the 5P which is the naturally occurring vibe of each blade.
Thanks for all the input and ideas over the weekend.
Sure would love to hear from some of the guru's like Shawn and Nick,
Last edited by fling-wing_1; 5th May 2010 at 05:42.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Reminds me of a time while fish spotting in a Hughes, I was dropping a buoy close to the surface when the darn thing got hung up. In two shakes the fish spotter had his headset off, seat belt unbuckled and was out on the float using it as a trampoline.
The seas were a little rough, if he had fallen in it might have been tough to get him back onboard. He would have had a tussle with a shark or two while waiting for the boat to show up..
The seas were a little rough, if he had fallen in it might have been tough to get him back onboard. He would have had a tussle with a shark or two while waiting for the boat to show up..
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.. I wonder how it would react to the sudden weight change?
CarSick - A little somethin from the past:
HM
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Wanting a little help from all you out there with experience in the 500E model. I've just got a job flying one on Ag and commercial opps. I am wanting to know the best way to do a power check for a confined landing in this machine. Thanks in advance..
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The quickest way (if you're working operationally) is to get as close as you can (safely) to an OGE hover, observe all the numbers (and ambient temp) with your current loading and see what you've got left. Do the same on a regular basis to check ongoing engine performance.
If its a standard E model and so long as you ain't too high and too heavily loaded, confined ops shouldn't normally pose a problem. Just make sure you've enough power to clear the confined area (vertically) with sufficient space to nose forward from the top of the vertical ascent and gain forward speed - better to make two trips and than one permanent one!
HM
as a post script - should you ever be tempted to 'load up' n' go out of a confined area when you're too heavy, just remember that this could be you ...
If its a standard E model and so long as you ain't too high and too heavily loaded, confined ops shouldn't normally pose a problem. Just make sure you've enough power to clear the confined area (vertically) with sufficient space to nose forward from the top of the vertical ascent and gain forward speed - better to make two trips and than one permanent one!
HM
as a post script - should you ever be tempted to 'load up' n' go out of a confined area when you're too heavy, just remember that this could be you ...
Last edited by Hell Man; 7th Nov 2010 at 07:55.
UnZudowned,
Until you are familiar with the machine there is this blue book normally just to the right of your head (when in the pilots seat) in a little box that should be placarded "Flight Manual".
Check out the Performance Section.
Do a few sample scenarios and derive a few "Rules of Thumb"
It beats guessing by a wider margin.
In some countries this is actually a requirement and may also be in yours. Check the details.
Until you are familiar with the machine there is this blue book normally just to the right of your head (when in the pilots seat) in a little box that should be placarded "Flight Manual".
Check out the Performance Section.
Do a few sample scenarios and derive a few "Rules of Thumb"
It beats guessing by a wider margin.
In some countries this is actually a requirement and may also be in yours. Check the details.
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Here is a question, I have heard people say that the MD 500D is faster and more reliable than the MD 500E why?
The only difference I see is the pointy nose and the different tabs on the T tail.
Hughes 500 you have owned both why is this?
Please fill me in!
The only difference I see is the pointy nose and the different tabs on the T tail.
Hughes 500 you have owned both why is this?
Please fill me in!
Starflex
The other big difference is the bigger end plates on the horizontal stab. The first couple of hundred E 's had a strake on the point of the nose and a surfboard on top of the dog house, supposedly as they had problems with the airflow over the horiz stab hence trim tab and end plates. I presume this slowed the machine down. many pilots claim the D is smoother, cant say I have noticed.
The D model has a higher vne of 156kts v 152. However I have owned 4 E models ( 2 with surfboards, 2 without), fastest was 135 kts at max continuous where as my D will do close to 145 at max cont. Mind you none of them like going that fast. Normally cruise at 130kts pulling about 72 psi in a D
Not sure they are any more reliable other than they were made by Hughes rather than MD. I suppose any company when it takes over another always looks to reduce costs. However I never noticed a difference.
Still one of the most fun machines to fly nearly 50 years after it was born, says alot for 1960's engineering
The other big difference is the bigger end plates on the horizontal stab. The first couple of hundred E 's had a strake on the point of the nose and a surfboard on top of the dog house, supposedly as they had problems with the airflow over the horiz stab hence trim tab and end plates. I presume this slowed the machine down. many pilots claim the D is smoother, cant say I have noticed.
The D model has a higher vne of 156kts v 152. However I have owned 4 E models ( 2 with surfboards, 2 without), fastest was 135 kts at max continuous where as my D will do close to 145 at max cont. Mind you none of them like going that fast. Normally cruise at 130kts pulling about 72 psi in a D
Not sure they are any more reliable other than they were made by Hughes rather than MD. I suppose any company when it takes over another always looks to reduce costs. However I never noticed a difference.
Still one of the most fun machines to fly nearly 50 years after it was born, says alot for 1960's engineering
OH-6A with a big tailrotor?
Does this OH-6A have a D-Model tail-rotor fitted? It looks a little bigger in span than the regular tail-rotor currently fitted to the OH-6A and 500C.
(Yer man seems to be more than a little happy to see this machine!)
500 Fan.
(Yer man seems to be more than a little happy to see this machine!)
500 Fan.
Thats just how i sounded when i picked mine up last week !!!! Having never had a 500 before i have to say it takes 5 min to feel really comfortable flying it ...and 10 min to fall in love with it 