new radio rules and services

[metalman]

what does the newly introduced (from march 12th) Rt rules and phraseology mean to the ppl, anybody know?
Metal man

[Scott Diamond]

ATSOCAS

Have a look around that site. If you request a FIS after 12th, you'll probably be offered a 'Basic Service'; RIS a 'Traffic Service'; RAS a 'Deconfliction Service'; and a 'Procedural' service for IFR outside controlled airspace where the unit does not have or is necessarily wishing to use any radar systems.

[TornadoWilkes]

Following a briefing we've just attended with a local ATC unit, it also means from an ATC point of view that the restrictions on having to keep aircraft 5 nm and 1000 ft don't necessarily apply in fact they are reduced to 3nm and if the other aircraft is in controlled airspace they have no requirement to tell you at all if you are not going to enter it.

In many cases now, if the blips on their radar will not converge or the aircraft they see will pass behind you, they may not tell you of its presence.

Therefore expect to see more aircraft passing closer than ever before.

[[email protected]]

Back

To

Debbie's

Place

= Basic, Traffic, Deconfliction, Procedural

If you need a mnemonic to remember the new services

[roundwego]

what does the newly introduced (from march 12th) Rt rules and phraseology mean to the ppl, anybody know?

Metal man, Have you read CAP 774 yet?

[Madbob]

Why the change?

What was wrong with the old system? It seemed pretty clear to both pilots and controllers and by the sound of things the "new" system won't give a better service to pilots. I like to know what's out there especially in IMC or marginal VMC. Even on a gin clear day given the blind spots of most ac cockpits getting a warning of what might be coming up your ar$e (especially if it is overtaking quickly) can be VERY beneficial.

Just my $0.02.

MB

[Helififtysix]

Did anybody else get the CD about the new services?

I think there is good info at www.airspacesafety.com, which are the people who did the CD

If not I'll see what I can do about sharing it, if its in the name of safety I don't think they will mind the copyright too much.... I hope

[Spanish Waltzer]

why the change?

call me cynical but my guess is that it affords the controllers a greater degree of legal protection if the proverbial hits the fan.

Although why they couldn't keep the same names but change the definitions I don't know

[ShyTorque]

The changes are intended to clarify what the user is entitled to under each type of service.

I wouldn't be surprised if these changes were lobbied for by controllers after legal action was taken against an RAF ATCO following a fatal USAF low flying accident (CFIT in the mountains). The ATCO was eventually cleared of blame but the case opened up some disparity about what a pilot could expect from a controller.

Shame they have had to confuse everyone for the sake of a few previously confused aircrew.....

[ShyTorque]

Crab, Speaking of Debbie, I find this one easier to remember:

Big T**s Do Please.

(In my dreams).

[Whirlygig]

Big Toes? Really ShyT?

To be serious for a moment, there are some informative threads on Private Flying and ATC issues, plus the safety website above.

Cheers

Whirls

[WylieCoyote]

Metalman,

The vast majority of the time you'll be asking for a Basic service, if the FISO your talking to has Radar then you could get a Traffic service, Deconfliction and Procedural are really for IFR.
Not crashing into the ground and other people is up to you.
Hope that helps, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

[Scott Diamond]

I think one of the problems with the FIS/RIS/RAS was pilots who would request a FIS, get a squawk, positively identified + miles from an airport; their altitude etc then controller would start saying traffic at 8 oclock etc; which led a few to believe they were under a RIS. (which is obvious despite controllers saying 'Flight Information Service'!)

[pumuckl]

There is some discussion here:

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/359...s-changes.html

and here:

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...2th-march.html

Cheers

P.