Is aircon in an EMS helicopter really necessary
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Is aircon in an EMS helicopter really necessary
From the Daily Telegraph in Australia:
Helicopter medics in meltdown | The Daily Telegraph
AIR ambulance helicopter crews are collapsing with heat exhaustion on rescue flights because temperatures in the non-air-conditioned cabins sometimes hit 50C.
The extreme heat has caused crew to vomit mid-air requiring injections and medication. One doctor was so badly affected he was "unable to perform his clinical duties".
The Daily Telegraph can also reveal that a window fell out of one of the state's new ambulance helicopters over Liverpool in Sydney's southwest on Saturday after crew members tried to open it for ventilation.
The aircraft, on its way to a hang-glider crash at Wilton, was forced to return to base and has been out of action since.
Emails discussing the impact of the cost-saving measures in the ambulance helicopter rescue service reveal heat-stressed crews have been forced to ask pilots to slow the choppers to under 100 knots so they can open a door to get air.
One crewman, who did not wish to be identified, said yesterday the issue was expected to come to a head at a occupational health and safety meeting later this week.
"Crews are being incapacitated by the heat - they are feeling physically exhausted and faint and some have vomited in flight," he said.
Opposition health spokeswoman Jillian Skinner accused the State Government of taking short cuts with the helicopter service that potentially endangered lives.
"Not only patients but doctors and crew who fly often under heroic circumstances are at risk here," she said.
"This is penny-pinching at its worst, saving money on essentials such as air-conditioning which is part of a standard fit-out on these helicopters."
Canadian company CHC last year won the $270 million contract to provide the ambulance helicopters but the aircraft they provided came without air-conditioning.
A spokeswoman for the ambulance service said last night it would meet aviation engineers soon "to evaluate a a number of options".
The spokeswoman said experts advised that air-conditioning would be used only on a few days each year.
"The crews are trialling cool packs on very hot days to ensure they keep hydrated and have a break if required when carrying out several missions in a row."
Emails reveal the ambulance choppers heat up dangerously while sitting in the sun at airstrips while waiting to take off. They indicate crews have been warned: "If you are affected by heat stress please report it immediately to the crew and abort the mission if necessary before you become a victim.
"Unlike a hot car, in a helicopter the crew must wear thick fireproof flight suits, boots, gloves, helmets - so it really is an issue."
The extreme heat has caused crew to vomit mid-air requiring injections and medication. One doctor was so badly affected he was "unable to perform his clinical duties".
The Daily Telegraph can also reveal that a window fell out of one of the state's new ambulance helicopters over Liverpool in Sydney's southwest on Saturday after crew members tried to open it for ventilation.
The aircraft, on its way to a hang-glider crash at Wilton, was forced to return to base and has been out of action since.
Emails discussing the impact of the cost-saving measures in the ambulance helicopter rescue service reveal heat-stressed crews have been forced to ask pilots to slow the choppers to under 100 knots so they can open a door to get air.
One crewman, who did not wish to be identified, said yesterday the issue was expected to come to a head at a occupational health and safety meeting later this week.
"Crews are being incapacitated by the heat - they are feeling physically exhausted and faint and some have vomited in flight," he said.
Opposition health spokeswoman Jillian Skinner accused the State Government of taking short cuts with the helicopter service that potentially endangered lives.
"Not only patients but doctors and crew who fly often under heroic circumstances are at risk here," she said.
"This is penny-pinching at its worst, saving money on essentials such as air-conditioning which is part of a standard fit-out on these helicopters."
Canadian company CHC last year won the $270 million contract to provide the ambulance helicopters but the aircraft they provided came without air-conditioning.
A spokeswoman for the ambulance service said last night it would meet aviation engineers soon "to evaluate a a number of options".
The spokeswoman said experts advised that air-conditioning would be used only on a few days each year.
"The crews are trialling cool packs on very hot days to ensure they keep hydrated and have a break if required when carrying out several missions in a row."
Emails reveal the ambulance choppers heat up dangerously while sitting in the sun at airstrips while waiting to take off. They indicate crews have been warned: "If you are affected by heat stress please report it immediately to the crew and abort the mission if necessary before you become a victim.
"Unlike a hot car, in a helicopter the crew must wear thick fireproof flight suits, boots, gloves, helmets - so it really is an issue."
Helicopter medics in meltdown | The Daily Telegraph
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Mmmm...
No Airconditioning .... Bloody stupid decision especially for Australian conditions.
Heat stress is an added complication just not needed on an EMS sortie.
Had the fantastic Garrett system in he BK117 used in Melbourne would produce ice out of the ducts during mid summer flights.
In winter or on really wet days when the crew gets into the machine and starts putting all that water vapour into the cabin the a/c would be able to dry the atmosphere and give you a chance to keep the wind screens /windows clear of mist.
A/C should be MANDATORY on EMS machines .... is it not with road ambulances?
No Airconditioning .... Bloody stupid decision especially for Australian conditions.
Heat stress is an added complication just not needed on an EMS sortie.
Had the fantastic Garrett system in he BK117 used in Melbourne would produce ice out of the ducts during mid summer flights.
In winter or on really wet days when the crew gets into the machine and starts putting all that water vapour into the cabin the a/c would be able to dry the atmosphere and give you a chance to keep the wind screens /windows clear of mist.
A/C should be MANDATORY on EMS machines .... is it not with road ambulances?
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I think they may have problems in that climate if the 145 doesn't have aircon. If i recall - -the US military version of the 145 was spec'd without aircon (against the advice of ECD) and they had big problems with avionics etc overheating. Think there's a thread on it around here.
Barny
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Maybe the Paramedics and Dr's should walk around the corner to Polair and ask the guys and girls there how they deal with flying in Police helicopters all day long without air-con.
Just a thought
BA
Just a thought
BA
I wonder if we would have the same discussion about fitting a heater on an Alaskan EMS machine? Strange how aircon is always perceived as a luxury!
The cost of optional equipment and non standard modifications is always a factor.
Managers always know best and the opinions of people in the field are often ignored.
I remember when a 365N was put into service for the harbour pilots at the entrance to Rotterdam harbour on an area of reclaimed land. The dust was so bad that the engineers on site asked for a sand filter kit.
The management said it was uneccessary.
One month and two engines later the sand filters were on and operational.
Managers always know best and the opinions of people in the field are often ignored.
I remember when a 365N was put into service for the harbour pilots at the entrance to Rotterdam harbour on an area of reclaimed land. The dust was so bad that the engineers on site asked for a sand filter kit.
The management said it was uneccessary.
One month and two engines later the sand filters were on and operational.
A 10" Display can generate ~ 35 watts of heat.
How many displays in a 139?
I fly a 135 with 9 displays that generate heat. OAT above 30 deg C and no A/C is very difficult. Only ever turn on the heater at -15 or below!
On the 145 the factory A/C will not fit the bill in Aus. Go take a look at the aircraft operating in the US Mid West and see what works in a similar climate.
In the meantime here's how you fix your 139 - Swampy!
How many displays in a 139?
I fly a 135 with 9 displays that generate heat. OAT above 30 deg C and no A/C is very difficult. Only ever turn on the heater at -15 or below!
On the 145 the factory A/C will not fit the bill in Aus. Go take a look at the aircraft operating in the US Mid West and see what works in a similar climate.
In the meantime here's how you fix your 139 - Swampy!
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Mmmmm......
Actually you fix the 139 by installing both A/C packs!
PS for those that don't know ... the 139 has 4 flat screens fitted as standard plus the 2 FMS units .... and possibly may have the 5th screen option(moving map display) so that a/c interior gets hot quick!
Actually you fix the 139 by installing both A/C packs!
PS for those that don't know ... the 139 has 4 flat screens fitted as standard plus the 2 FMS units .... and possibly may have the 5th screen option(moving map display) so that a/c interior gets hot quick!
212man....
You seemed to be quite happy flying the 155 without it!
You seemed to be quite happy flying the 155 without it!
The spokeswoman said experts advised that air-conditioning would be used only on a few days each year.
You couldn't make up this sort of stuff, it's just beyond belief in this day and age
You seemed to be quite happy flying the 155 without it!
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Must get my 139 screens looked at Spin!!
Even with the 5th in the middle, it's still a chilly place up front with the heat off and the OAT up to 8'C. I'm afraid the several holes through the bulkhead into the unsealed nosecone area not to mention that scoop under yer toes all combine to offset the marginal advantage of the heat generated by all those systems!!
Brrr!
Apart from that, and so as not to let this creep away from the main subject matter, I do agree with the idea that AC in the heat is as valuable as a Heater in the cold. It does seem to be an extraordinary exercise in poorly judged penny-pinching!
22
Even with the 5th in the middle, it's still a chilly place up front with the heat off and the OAT up to 8'C. I'm afraid the several holes through the bulkhead into the unsealed nosecone area not to mention that scoop under yer toes all combine to offset the marginal advantage of the heat generated by all those systems!!
Brrr!
Apart from that, and so as not to let this creep away from the main subject matter, I do agree with the idea that AC in the heat is as valuable as a Heater in the cold. It does seem to be an extraordinary exercise in poorly judged penny-pinching!
22
The Daily Telegraph revealed in January that helicopter crews were collapsing with heat exhaustion on rescue flights because temperatures in the non-airconditioned cabins sometimes hit 50C. The extreme heat had caused crew members to vomit.
The Daily Phonograph revealed in March that readers were collapsing with disbelief on a regular basis because explanations in the non-informed articles sometimes hit 100% on the bull**** meter. The extreme garbage had caused members of the public to vomit.
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Crew Fitness
All good points, just one question, how fit/suitable are the members of the crew for this type of work? Do they complete fitness tests medical exams regular fitness training etc before taking on the demanding environment EMS can produce? All our flight crew do and we don’t have such problems or air-conditioning???
The employers are putting them selves at risk of litigation if they allow unsuitable staff members to operate in an environment both inside and outside the aircraft that they may not be able to operate in safely. They are putting the other members of the crew, patients and them selves at risk?
Perhaps those involved who just want to be able to wear the uniform at the shops should stick to collecting the badges…
The employers are putting them selves at risk of litigation if they allow unsuitable staff members to operate in an environment both inside and outside the aircraft that they may not be able to operate in safely. They are putting the other members of the crew, patients and them selves at risk?
Perhaps those involved who just want to be able to wear the uniform at the shops should stick to collecting the badges…
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Me thinks these lads need to toughen up. What's the average time spent in an EMS machine on any given sector anyway? Try fire fighting where cockpit temps regularly sit around 45 deg c and where we endure this for up to 8 hours a day sometimes for days without complaint. Logging in the tropics is the same.
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Originally Posted by NotHomeMuch
Me thinks these lads need to toughen up.
How about we have one of your loved ones (Mum? Kids?) in the back of a non-aircon 139 on a 35C day on a 1 hour transit to a Trauma Centre and see how quickly you change your mind
Yes, I've spent many a 10 hour day throwing water at the ground, usually (always!) solo, 90% of the time with the door off, 10% door on & aircon on. I prefer the door off, and it doesn't compare to EMS ops, thankyouverymuch.
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Mmmmm ....
...."how fit/suitable are the members of the crew for this type of work?"
What a load of bollocks .... its not just the crew this affects .... anybody that has any kind of EMS experience at all understands that its all about the patient.
At any time of dispatch it is not always obvious what sort of care the patient may require or where the machine may go or how the task once committed too may change.
If the Health Departments responsible for the tender process that called for several $13 Million + machines to be procured could not realise that those machines if purchased without air conditioning actually posed a "Duty of Care" risk to the task and the crews operating them then there needs to be some form of enquiry and the removal of "heads" (figuratively of course) of those 1D10ts that made the decision.
...."how fit/suitable are the members of the crew for this type of work?"
What a load of bollocks .... its not just the crew this affects .... anybody that has any kind of EMS experience at all understands that its all about the patient.
At any time of dispatch it is not always obvious what sort of care the patient may require or where the machine may go or how the task once committed too may change.
If the Health Departments responsible for the tender process that called for several $13 Million + machines to be procured could not realise that those machines if purchased without air conditioning actually posed a "Duty of Care" risk to the task and the crews operating them then there needs to be some form of enquiry and the removal of "heads" (figuratively of course
) of those 1D10ts that made the decision.
