"Unauthorised" air ambulance landing
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Quote:
"Paramedics had been about to use bolt-cutters to cut the 6ft security fence around Sheik Mohammed Al Maktoum’s mansion to reach the rider lying on neighbouring Chobham Common in Surrey."
What if the fence was electrified ???
"Paramedics had been about to use bolt-cutters to cut the 6ft security fence around Sheik Mohammed Al Maktoum’s mansion to reach the rider lying on neighbouring Chobham Common in Surrey."
What if the fence was electrified ???
Chief Bottle Washer
Longcross House (the estate in question) is owned by the Sheik Mohammed al Maktoum, and is near Ascot. I think that we can discount PPRuNe Radar's assertion that Scottish law has somehow come to have precedence in all this 
www.britain.tv
LONGCROSS HOUSE
The owner of Longcross House is Sheik Mohammed al Maktoum and is in Berkshire with the approximate value of £75 million.
Twenty years ago the house near Ascot was bought for less than £750,000 by Sheik Mohammed, Crown Prince of Dubai and United Arab Emirates’ defence minister.
Today, this estate is worth millions, even though the Arab owned properties that are on the Berkshire-Surrey border are difficult to value. And they are very unlikely to appear on the open market and the immense security that surrounds the grounds this makes it difficult to see what renovations have been done.
There is not much information on Longcross House, the way it is today, but little bits of information say that the sheik has added three hangers fro his large collection of vehicles and limousines. Also electronic gates and guard houses protect the two main entrances to the house.
The owner of Longcross House is Sheik Mohammed al Maktoum and is in Berkshire with the approximate value of £75 million.
Twenty years ago the house near Ascot was bought for less than £750,000 by Sheik Mohammed, Crown Prince of Dubai and United Arab Emirates’ defence minister.
Today, this estate is worth millions, even though the Arab owned properties that are on the Berkshire-Surrey border are difficult to value. And they are very unlikely to appear on the open market and the immense security that surrounds the grounds this makes it difficult to see what renovations have been done.
There is not much information on Longcross House, the way it is today, but little bits of information say that the sheik has added three hangers fro his large collection of vehicles and limousines. Also electronic gates and guard houses protect the two main entrances to the house.
Hmmmm......so I paint up an old Bo105 in air ambulance markings.....load a bunch of my mates aboard with guns and land in someone's estate to take hostage/blow up/terrorise/or some other nasty option because an air ambulance is a passport to land anywhere.
Now who would do such a thing ? Answer ...8 Flight SAS !
Isn't this thread losing the point ?
Now who would do such a thing ? Answer ...8 Flight SAS !
Isn't this thread losing the point ?
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There HAS to be an AA pilot on here somewhere!
He or she should know exactly! I'd be interested in what another AA pilot would do in this situation.....
Come on..... dont be shy speak up. We know your out there!
Out of curiosity, does anyone know of a AA pilot flying without a military or Offshore background?
I think it would be the best job in the industry IMO.
He or she should know exactly! I'd be interested in what another AA pilot would do in this situation.....
Come on..... dont be shy speak up. We know your out there!
Out of curiosity, does anyone know of a AA pilot flying without a military or Offshore background?
I think it would be the best job in the industry IMO.
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Fair enough ... I stand corrected and apologise 
Fatal mistake number 1 in aviation ... don't assume, check 
I assumed it was his Scottish estate.
We've always been a bit more forgiving about land access up here though
Fatal mistake number 1 in aviation ... don't assume, check I assumed it was his Scottish estate.We've always been a bit more forgiving about land access up here though
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Unauthorised Landing
Interesting scenario this!!
Being an AA pilot that R44 asked for.......this is my take on the situation.
During Air Ambulance operations in this country (UK), if the information the crew have at the time is that life is at risk, or injury has occurred. Then the aircraft commander has the authority to land at an un-surveyed site without the landowners permission. HOWEVER, and it's a BIG however, this DOES NOT mean that the landing is exempt from the owners permission rule. After landing the commander should, if possible or if required, attempt to gain permission from the landowner retrospectively.
Unfortunately,in this instance, the cry of 'oi, get orf my land' is a valid one!
If the landowner is unhappy with the fact that you've landed somewhere uninvited, they have the right to ask you to leave, forcebly if neccessary! (i.e Plod).
With regard to getting access to the patient. Most things are allowed, but the intimation is that prior to departure best efforts are made to re-instate any damage done to property. Maybe a bit difficult if you've taken a gurt set of bolt croppers to a chain link fence!!!
In 16 years of flying Air Ambulance operations in Gods own county (I'll leave you to work where that is!). I've never once encountered this problem
. Probably because we don't have too many Billionaires down here!
R44 In answer to your other question. Yes there are a few non-mil AA pilots around. Not too many, mainly due to the nature of work and the fact that the pay tends to be compared to, say, the N. Sea! But anyway, Good old Lizzie does train the best! And you're right. It IS one of the best jobs going IMHO
Does ANYBODY know how to fly this thing?
Being an AA pilot that R44 asked for.......this is my take on the situation.
During Air Ambulance operations in this country (UK), if the information the crew have at the time is that life is at risk, or injury has occurred. Then the aircraft commander has the authority to land at an un-surveyed site without the landowners permission. HOWEVER, and it's a BIG however, this DOES NOT mean that the landing is exempt from the owners permission rule. After landing the commander should, if possible or if required, attempt to gain permission from the landowner retrospectively.
Unfortunately,in this instance, the cry of 'oi, get orf my land' is a valid one!
If the landowner is unhappy with the fact that you've landed somewhere uninvited, they have the right to ask you to leave, forcebly if neccessary! (i.e Plod).With regard to getting access to the patient. Most things are allowed, but the intimation is that prior to departure best efforts are made to re-instate any damage done to property. Maybe a bit difficult if you've taken a gurt set of bolt croppers to a chain link fence!!!
In 16 years of flying Air Ambulance operations in Gods own county (I'll leave you to work where that is!). I've never once encountered this problem
. Probably because we don't have too many Billionaires down here!R44 In answer to your other question. Yes there are a few non-mil AA pilots around. Not too many, mainly due to the nature of work and the fact that the pay tends to be
compared to, say, the N. Sea! But anyway, Good old Lizzie does train the best! And you're right. It IS one of the best jobs going IMHODoes ANYBODY know how to fly this thing?
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Great answer, thanks Bobby,
I think the rule you talk about should be looked at, i.e. they say move you have to move.... I should think very few AA pilots have had to face this but never the less, I think the rule should be taken away... at the end of the day your there for a job, and as you say its to preserve life! would you tell an amubulance to get off your driveway if there treating someone..... and I should think you possible COULD!
Which AA do you fly for? Not Lincs & Notts is it?
(in 10 years time i'd love that job!
)
I ask because your names BobbyBolkow and I know Lincs/Notts use to have a 105 before the MD......
As for the pay, i'm sure the job MORE than makes up for the few less pennies. (Thats how I would see it) A great job done mate, and IMO a very very repectful seat to be sat
I think the rule you talk about should be looked at, i.e. they say move you have to move.... I should think very few AA pilots have had to face this but never the less, I think the rule should be taken away... at the end of the day your there for a job, and as you say its to preserve life! would you tell an amubulance to get off your driveway if there treating someone.....
and I should think you possible COULD! Which AA do you fly for? Not Lincs & Notts is it?
(in 10 years time i'd love that job!)I ask because your names BobbyBolkow and I know Lincs/Notts use to have a 105 before the MD......
As for the pay, i'm sure the job MORE than makes up for the few less pennies. (Thats how I would see it) A great job done mate, and IMO a very very repectful seat to be sat
Hovering AND talking
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R44, God's own county is a specific county which the denizens of that place like to think is the best in the world. They are well known for being fiercely loyal to their motherland as well as being a tad parsimonious with the beer vouchers (is this the right colour??)
Cheers
Whirls
I'll give you another clue - it ain't Lancashire
Cheers
Whirls
I'll give you another clue - it ain't Lancashire
The Original Whirly
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Out of curiosity, does anyone know of a AA pilot flying without a military or Offshore background?
On permission to land, I distinctly remember Flying Lawyer telling me on here that you don't legally need a landowner's permission to land, but I don't remember now which thread it was.
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"But a security guard told them to stop – despite the crew being allowed by law to land anywhere and damage property to get to a patient."
Lifes are at risk u can go in !
Lifes are at risk u can go in !
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Lifes are at risk u can go in !
As Bobby Bolkow and others have pointed out, this situation was a little more complicated than "Yes I can/ No you can't".
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Bobby Bolkow
Thanks for your input, it seems there is a potential dilemma and I don't envy you that one, although I am sure that EMS commanders have excellent judgement and decision making skills.
If no-one else adds anything of note in the next 24 hours, I'll relieve the PPrune bandwidth and delete the thread.
Thanks for your responses.
Thanks for your input, it seems there is a potential dilemma and I don't envy you that one, although I am sure that EMS commanders have excellent judgement and decision making skills.
If no-one else adds anything of note in the next 24 hours, I'll relieve the PPrune bandwidth and delete the thread.
Thanks for your responses.
The Original Whirly
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Don't delete it. Flying Lawyer might turn up eventually and tell us the real legal situation. Or someone else who actually has something useful to say. Not everyone reads PPRuNe every day.
Helicopters can land anywhere the pilot wishes....
whether it's legal or safe is another point?
Other irrelevant measures/statements are 'exclusion zones' and 'no fly' areas.
All meaningless unless authorities have will and capability to enforce.
Obviously I'm referring to aircraft landing with malicious intent etc but it's akin to declaring a no fly zone over London with our AD assets unable to do anything about it if aircraft enters with malicious intent.....
Can just imagine terrorist going to all the trouble of hiring a helicopter full of bang bang to arrive over their intended target to have to then abort because his aviation map has an exclusion zone over it!
Similiar to SB clearance - have yet to read about a criminal/smuggler advising SB of their intended movements!
Other irrelevant measures/statements are 'exclusion zones' and 'no fly' areas.
All meaningless unless authorities have will and capability to enforce.
Obviously I'm referring to aircraft landing with malicious intent etc but it's akin to declaring a no fly zone over London with our AD assets unable to do anything about it if aircraft enters with malicious intent.....
Can just imagine terrorist going to all the trouble of hiring a helicopter full of bang bang to arrive over their intended target to have to then abort because his aviation map has an exclusion zone over it!
Similiar to SB clearance - have yet to read about a criminal/smuggler advising SB of their intended movements!