Hear ye, Hear Ye, This Is The Truth!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
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Helicopter pilots are all Blue Collar pilots - wonderful book from Canada on the subject of Blue Collar vs White Collar pilots.
Can't remember the author but search abebooks for Blue Collar Pilots.
Can't remember the author but search abebooks for Blue Collar Pilots.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Fixed wing v heli
I enjoy the best of both worlds.
Having come from a fixed wing PPL background and amassed 500 hours heli in just 3 years, all on Robinsons, I would say that the R44 is a lot easier than some of the quirky vintage fixed wing machines I fly.
I soloed a 22 after 8 hours/ zero previous experience despite being well into my 50's.
I dread to think of the risks involved if my 30 years fixed wing experience was actualy on helis and I had only 8 hrs TT fixed wing before launching off in one of my precious vintage machines.
You can point a heli into wind most of the time at the critical phases of flight. With fixed wing its a luxury.
Sorry, but I think there is a great deal of elitism in the fling-wing fraternity.
An R44, with its modern hydraulically assisted controls is a breeze to fly and a person of average ability will crack the hover in just a few hours.
Everybody says to me, 'it looks really difficult'. My stock answer is 'its easy. You just need to train your brain to do it just as you did when you learned to drive. What seems impossible to start with becomes completely natural once you've learned how to do it.'
On a straight comparison in VFR conditions the heli IMO is no more difficult than fixed wing and in some respects a lot easier and more natural.
The accident stats do of course bear out that they are easier to crash, I'd give you that!
JB
Having come from a fixed wing PPL background and amassed 500 hours heli in just 3 years, all on Robinsons, I would say that the R44 is a lot easier than some of the quirky vintage fixed wing machines I fly.
I soloed a 22 after 8 hours/ zero previous experience despite being well into my 50's.
I dread to think of the risks involved if my 30 years fixed wing experience was actualy on helis and I had only 8 hrs TT fixed wing before launching off in one of my precious vintage machines.
You can point a heli into wind most of the time at the critical phases of flight. With fixed wing its a luxury.
Sorry, but I think there is a great deal of elitism in the fling-wing fraternity.
An R44, with its modern hydraulically assisted controls is a breeze to fly and a person of average ability will crack the hover in just a few hours.
Everybody says to me, 'it looks really difficult'. My stock answer is 'its easy. You just need to train your brain to do it just as you did when you learned to drive. What seems impossible to start with becomes completely natural once you've learned how to do it.'
On a straight comparison in VFR conditions the heli IMO is no more difficult than fixed wing and in some respects a lot easier and more natural.
The accident stats do of course bear out that they are easier to crash, I'd give you that!
JB
Join Date: May 2005
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I read a good quote from this forum some time ago.
" A helicopter pilots work starts when he/she gets to their destination, a fixed-wing pilots finishes at theirs. "
How true .......
" A helicopter pilots work starts when he/she gets to their destination, a fixed-wing pilots finishes at theirs. "
How true .......
Join Date: Aug 2003
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I dread to think of the risks involved if my 30 years fixed wing experience was actualy on helis and I had only 8 hrs TT fixed wing before launching off in one of my precious vintage machines.
Join Date: May 2007
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On a straight comparison in VFR conditions the heli IMO is no more difficult than fixed wing and in some respects a lot easier and more natural.
The accident stats do of course bear out that they are easier to crash, I'd give you that!
Unfortunately one must compare apples with apples. Impossible to compare the two platforms head to head in their different roles. Hence the never ending debate...............and our superior flying skills!
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Bad mood?
Hi Svenestron,
I think you are missing my simple point, a comparision between what is well know to be a VFR-only modern heli v a VFR only vintage fixed wing.
In my experience the vintage fixed wing is more challenging to fly.
I can only imagine how difficult the operations you describe are and agree that it will take a great deal of skill, much the same as a Twin into minima is a whole lot different to a bacon sandwich trip in a 152.
Go and have a beer, you'll feel better.
JB
I think you are missing my simple point, a comparision between what is well know to be a VFR-only modern heli v a VFR only vintage fixed wing.
In my experience the vintage fixed wing is more challenging to fly.
I can only imagine how difficult the operations you describe are and agree that it will take a great deal of skill, much the same as a Twin into minima is a whole lot different to a bacon sandwich trip in a 152.
Go and have a beer, you'll feel better.
JB
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Jackboot, if you really want to compare apples to apples
Try comparing to fly this vintage puppy to a vintage fixed wing and tell me what you think would be more difficult!
'nuff said
'nuff said
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operations you describe are and agree that it will take a great deal of skill, much the same as a Twin into minima is a whole lot different to a bacon sandwich trip in a 152.
Hence the never ending debate...............and our superior flying skills!
Bottom line, no runway required and loving it! .........and dare I say it, way less waiting in line for cavity inspections........
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In the RAF the good pilots go single seat fast jet. The less able go two-seat as they require a navigator. The slightly doubtful are posted to the heavies e.g. Hercules. Those that are left are sent to rotary. QED
Join Date: Jul 2007
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As someone with a few thousand hours rotary and a few thousand on medium sized jets (737 & A320) I would say neither is better or more difficult. They are just very differant.
I found landing on a rig on a miserable night on the North Sea with the helideck in the turbulent sector no more or less challenging than Landing a 737 in 35kts of crosswind on a wet field length limited runway at night.
Performance & the ability to carry a little extra fuel is generally (but not always) less of an issue in a jet but energy management usually has to start earlier.
For sure it is harder to learn to fly an R22 than a Cessna 152 but when it comes to operating a public transport service differance in difficulty level is minimal but the logistics are poles apart.
I found landing on a rig on a miserable night on the North Sea with the helideck in the turbulent sector no more or less challenging than Landing a 737 in 35kts of crosswind on a wet field length limited runway at night.
Performance & the ability to carry a little extra fuel is generally (but not always) less of an issue in a jet but energy management usually has to start earlier.
For sure it is harder to learn to fly an R22 than a Cessna 152 but when it comes to operating a public transport service differance in difficulty level is minimal but the logistics are poles apart.
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Read it again
Bravo 73 quote - So, you're saying that a modern aircraft is easier to fly than a vintage aircraft?
No, I'm not saying that. I said that a modern heli is easier than a vintage fixed wing.
Irrespective of heli experience, nobody is going to send you solo in, say, Tiger Moth, after 8 hours dual. However, after 8 hours dual in an R22 the average, experienced fixed wing pilot should be near solo. I did it in 8, I ain't young, I am average.
This is my opinion based on my own experience. Feel free to misquote me again at any time.
JB
No, I'm not saying that. I said that a modern heli is easier than a vintage fixed wing.
Irrespective of heli experience, nobody is going to send you solo in, say, Tiger Moth, after 8 hours dual. However, after 8 hours dual in an R22 the average, experienced fixed wing pilot should be near solo. I did it in 8, I ain't young, I am average.
This is my opinion based on my own experience. Feel free to misquote me again at any time.
JB
Your reading glasses must be playing up again. I never quoted you in the first place.
cholmondeley,
Funny thing however....so very many of them fast jet types seem to look up to Helicopter Pilots.....and seem very glad to do so.....from the end of a winch wire as they are bobbin' in the oggin. Tell me again who the "good" pilots are again?
Funny thing however....so very many of them fast jet types seem to look up to Helicopter Pilots.....and seem very glad to do so.....from the end of a winch wire as they are bobbin' in the oggin. Tell me again who the "good" pilots are again?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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You can point a heli into wind most of the time at the critical phases of flight. With fixed wing its a luxury.
You want to know the realy luxury? Airports and airstrips. Fixed wing guys get to operate out of prepared and maintained sites all the time, with well documented approaches and all the rest. Even a dirty old gravel strip has a history and you know what to expect. That is a huge luxury.
We have to make it up as we go along, a sort of trial and error. Every helicopter pilot on this forum has landed, at least once, at a spot where no other aircraft has landed before or since.
The way I see it, fixed wing guys are Aviators and heli guys are Pilots. Interpret that however you like.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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At some point you will all discover that the size of your pension is a significant consideration. Have fun in the meantime, but eventually it all comes down to the cash you will have (or not) when you're old. Sorry to be a damp squib, but there it is.
