Suspected heli crash, Gloucestershire (Nov 2008)
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You have to look for a second, older report on the Times online report:
However it is public knowledge, including the name of at least one on board. I will go so far as: Reported as G-CBXT; seen here on a better day.
[CAA Database Photograph.]
Published photographs of the accident scene suggest that it remained in this colour scheme. A sad day.
However it is public knowledge, including the name of at least one on board. I will go so far as: Reported as G-CBXT; seen here on a better day.
[CAA Database Photograph.]
Published photographs of the accident scene suggest that it remained in this colour scheme. A sad day.
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Gazelle Crash Cheltenham
Just looking at the posts after being informed earlier of the news as many are in the dark over what has happened and dont really want any speculation to go in the wrong direction as sometimes happens in these circumstances, I know both the owners of this A/C and have flown with both pilots. One owner who is registered as the keeper where the A/C is based is two miles from my house. The Pilot that was flying was Rick Paskey and had either his son with him or another male and a female family friend.
He visited the second owners house this morning at around 08:30 GMT and took off for a private site in Stratford upon Avon and after lifting from there was flying to Falcon Air at Yeovilton where the maintenance is done and crashed on the hillside of Langley Farm near Winchcombe.
We dont know if it his son or another male onboard as yet but are all deeply saddened by the loss. Rick was a good pilot and learnt alongside myself at Coventry Helicopter Centre before it went into liquidation in 2001.
Our thoughts and blessings go out to Ricks wife and family that he has left behind and also of those onboard.
He visited the second owners house this morning at around 08:30 GMT and took off for a private site in Stratford upon Avon and after lifting from there was flying to Falcon Air at Yeovilton where the maintenance is done and crashed on the hillside of Langley Farm near Winchcombe.
We dont know if it his son or another male onboard as yet but are all deeply saddened by the loss. Rick was a good pilot and learnt alongside myself at Coventry Helicopter Centre before it went into liquidation in 2001.
Our thoughts and blessings go out to Ricks wife and family that he has left behind and also of those onboard.
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What a tragic loss of life - sincere condolences to all concerned.
Although it is easy to jump to conclusions the information above would appear to suggest that this was a CFIT accident. I was flying a bit further Southwest yesterday before and after the accident and the air was far from smooth, perhaps turbulence in cloud may have also been a contributing factor. All the more tragic if this was the case since routing to the West via Glouocester would most likely have been free of mist shrouded hilltops.
Did this gazelle have an autopilot or stability augmentation system of any sort?
Anyone know if there was any kind of terrain avoidance kit fitted, even a colour moving map GPS with terrain?
RIP
Scooter Boy
Although it is easy to jump to conclusions the information above would appear to suggest that this was a CFIT accident. I was flying a bit further Southwest yesterday before and after the accident and the air was far from smooth, perhaps turbulence in cloud may have also been a contributing factor. All the more tragic if this was the case since routing to the West via Glouocester would most likely have been free of mist shrouded hilltops.
Did this gazelle have an autopilot or stability augmentation system of any sort?
Anyone know if there was any kind of terrain avoidance kit fitted, even a colour moving map GPS with terrain?
RIP
Scooter Boy
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Not speculating??
The previous two posters (especially you, scooter boy) seem to have wrapped up the board of inquiry!
Don't be surprised it the press quote you and potentially give the family more stress at this time.
Knock off the armchair accident investigations eh?
The previous two posters (especially you, scooter boy) seem to have wrapped up the board of inquiry!
Don't be surprised it the press quote you and potentially give the family more stress at this time.
Knock off the armchair accident investigations eh?
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Without jumping to any conclusions. I would like to make the following comment based on recently attending the safety briefing at Wycombe and the number of these types of incidents that happen.
A key topic at the briefing was why us rotary guys (and girls, lets just call it guys and include the girls in that) don't learn from the mistakes of the fixed wing guys. One of the things that favours fixed wing flyers is that they have to fly from an airfield. If the weather did have a part to play in this crash, for the fixed winger, he is going to have to get out of the airfield and from his arrival to his departure he is going to have to talk to many people, which gives him the opportunity to gather information about whether it is safe to fly. There are also minimum weather conditions that prohibit his departure.
On the other hand, us rotary guys take off from anywhere, might not talk to a soul before lifting (I hope not) and maybe not have enough weather info at our disposal.
Quite a few people I have flown with are surprised that I can lift off from my backyard without informing anyone.
This is only a suggestion, and I turn my cheek openly towards the pprune bashers, PPL's who fly from private sites be required to file a flight plan, say two hours prior to lifting. The CAA can then make a recommendation about the weather conditions or any other issue that might impact the flight. I underline recommendation as I'm sure the CAA will not want to open itself to any liability and the recommendation/flight plan approval, clearly states it is the captain's decision and no liabilty is accepted.
At least this way the pilot is going to have some input from someone else, whether he chooses to listen or not, is his decision, but it might help save some lives.
Cheers
Chippy
A key topic at the briefing was why us rotary guys (and girls, lets just call it guys and include the girls in that) don't learn from the mistakes of the fixed wing guys. One of the things that favours fixed wing flyers is that they have to fly from an airfield. If the weather did have a part to play in this crash, for the fixed winger, he is going to have to get out of the airfield and from his arrival to his departure he is going to have to talk to many people, which gives him the opportunity to gather information about whether it is safe to fly. There are also minimum weather conditions that prohibit his departure.
On the other hand, us rotary guys take off from anywhere, might not talk to a soul before lifting (I hope not) and maybe not have enough weather info at our disposal.
Quite a few people I have flown with are surprised that I can lift off from my backyard without informing anyone.
This is only a suggestion, and I turn my cheek openly towards the pprune bashers, PPL's who fly from private sites be required to file a flight plan, say two hours prior to lifting. The CAA can then make a recommendation about the weather conditions or any other issue that might impact the flight. I underline recommendation as I'm sure the CAA will not want to open itself to any liability and the recommendation/flight plan approval, clearly states it is the captain's decision and no liabilty is accepted.
At least this way the pilot is going to have some input from someone else, whether he chooses to listen or not, is his decision, but it might help save some lives.
Cheers
Chippy
If you get the caa in it will probably be quicker to drive by the time you have filled in all the new forms they will require.
We are so lucky in this country to have the ability to take off and fly from one end to the other without HAVING to speak to anybody at any time and it would be a sad day that we lose that . Next stop no off airport landings , no vfr etc etc I still believe we need affordable certified autopilots for small helicopters and the ability to go imc safely , if inadvertently entered . Fixed wing seem far better served with their imc ratings . Also in this day and age why is it STILL impossible to get accurate actual weather for areas away from airports ??
Very sad if it is in fact weather related once again . RIP
We are so lucky in this country to have the ability to take off and fly from one end to the other without HAVING to speak to anybody at any time and it would be a sad day that we lose that . Next stop no off airport landings , no vfr etc etc I still believe we need affordable certified autopilots for small helicopters and the ability to go imc safely , if inadvertently entered . Fixed wing seem far better served with their imc ratings . Also in this day and age why is it STILL impossible to get accurate actual weather for areas away from airports ??Very sad if it is in fact weather related once again . RIP
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Off-airport weather
....why is it STILL impossible to get accurate actual weather for areas away from airports ??
It's a world-wide weather site. You can search by the town or airport that you are interested in. But, the great thing about it is the list of on-line personal weather stations that display actual weather continuously.
This view is of Gloucestershire. There is an on-line weather station at Bishops Cleeve - about three miles west of the crash site at Winchcombe. Click on the numbered circles for the weather.
Granted, it's not a certified met-man running it, but the information available gives a pretty good indication of the actual conditions locally.
Have a look and see what you think.
Interesting to see that Staverton isn't too far from Winchcombe, they should know the local conditions, shouldn't they?
Last edited by TRC; 2nd Nov 2008 at 12:21. Reason: tryping error
Chippychop - the problem is not access to the weather it is the decisions that pilots make about what they perceive to be their chances of success in the prevailing met conditions.
The really big difference between FW and RW is that we can go lower and slower which encourages people to push on when they should turn back or land.
How many PPLHs have to smear theselves across the landscape when pushing on in poor weather (and I am not saying that this happened in this tragic accident) before people recognise their own limitations? You wouldn't drive down a motorway in fog and rain at 100mph but lots of private helos have crashed at similar speeds in similar weather conditions.
The really big difference between FW and RW is that we can go lower and slower which encourages people to push on when they should turn back or land.
How many PPLHs have to smear theselves across the landscape when pushing on in poor weather (and I am not saying that this happened in this tragic accident) before people recognise their own limitations? You wouldn't drive down a motorway in fog and rain at 100mph but lots of private helos have crashed at similar speeds in similar weather conditions.
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Just seen this update on Times Online: Three killed in air crash - Times Online
Eyewitnesses are always a little tenuous with their information, the aircraft has now miraculously had a mid-air paint job, and is yellow!!! Where do they find these people, surprised she hasn't told the press she is an "Aviation Expert".
This is yet another sad day for aviation, and the rotary world especially.
I don't agree with any speculation in a public domain such as this, especially as we all know that the press frequent these parts and will mercilessly quote people's posts. We all have ideas in our heads as to what MAY have happened, and perhaps in our heads is where they should stay.
My thoughts are with the families of those involved.
Eyewitnesses are always a little tenuous with their information, the aircraft has now miraculously had a mid-air paint job, and is yellow!!! Where do they find these people, surprised she hasn't told the press she is an "Aviation Expert".
This is yet another sad day for aviation, and the rotary world especially.
I don't agree with any speculation in a public domain such as this, especially as we all know that the press frequent these parts and will mercilessly quote people's posts. We all have ideas in our heads as to what MAY have happened, and perhaps in our heads is where they should stay.
My thoughts are with the families of those involved.