Safety Managment Systems
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Safety Managment Systems
I have just been studying the CAA Guidance for Implementation of SMS and I am very impressed.
Does anyone know if an SMS is available for download or use?
Perhaps this is an opportunity for our disposed of over 60's to supplement their income by writing an SMS for sale?
Speaking of which, I wonder where in the Safety System Matrix I am supposed to fit 'Get rid of most experienced and capable pilots for no discernible effect'?
Presumably next to 'No prosecutions for illegal public transport'
I wonder who audits the auditors?
Does anyone know if an SMS is available for download or use?
Perhaps this is an opportunity for our disposed of over 60's to supplement their income by writing an SMS for sale?
Speaking of which, I wonder where in the Safety System Matrix I am supposed to fit 'Get rid of most experienced and capable pilots for no discernible effect'?
Presumably next to 'No prosecutions for illegal public transport'
I wonder who audits the auditors?
Hello P.E.
On the IHST website, they have a good document that explains SMS and at the end they have a "generic" SMS than can be adapted to your specifics.
IHST - Safety Management System
Enjoy
On the IHST website, they have a good document that explains SMS and at the end they have a "generic" SMS than can be adapted to your specifics.
IHST - Safety Management System
Enjoy
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If you're interested here is guidance material from Transport Canada's website:
http://http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/SMS/guidance.htm
http://http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/SMS/guidance.htm
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Safer? Really? Does more paperwork = safer flying?
Look at maintenance companies where the senior engineers are upstairs doing paperwork while the unsupervised trainees are doing the actual work, has this improved safety?
Tell me one way that FLYING will be more safe.
Will an SMS stop someone from flying into the side of a hill? I'm pretty sure such behaviour is already discouraged.
Personally I think the SMS will be not be a bad thing, with the proviso that it is implemented correctly, in my case we are a small company and we could easily be overburdened by the SMS especially with rapidly increasing CAA fees and increasing competition from 'private' flights, which would then have the opposite effect from its intention.
Look at maintenance companies where the senior engineers are upstairs doing paperwork while the unsupervised trainees are doing the actual work, has this improved safety?
Tell me one way that FLYING will be more safe.
Will an SMS stop someone from flying into the side of a hill? I'm pretty sure such behaviour is already discouraged.
Personally I think the SMS will be not be a bad thing, with the proviso that it is implemented correctly, in my case we are a small company and we could easily be overburdened by the SMS especially with rapidly increasing CAA fees and increasing competition from 'private' flights, which would then have the opposite effect from its intention.
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plus expenses;
Flying will become totally safe when the weight of the paperwork means that the aircraft can't leave the ground and we all with out the lights and go home
The cowboys will still be doing their thing and the rest of us will watch the mayhem from the safety of the sidelines. The AOC operators will be bullied into another level of red tape, while the guardians of aviation safety in the UK will spend their time and our money making sure we have dotted al the i's and crossed all the t's rather than getting out and policing aviation properly. Stopping the illegal PT and sheer stupid activities of the uncaring, uncontolled minority rather than giving us another level of bureaucracy would make me feel that our over-inflated AOC fees havesome value, rather than looking like they'e just been flushed away again.
To the FOIs. You all come from a commercial background. Why the hell can't you help commercial aviation rather than helping the Authority screw us all the time. To a man you are all nice blokes, plase remember where you came from and how the rest of us struggle against the illegal operators you seem powerless to stop.
Rant over. PE no doubt you and I will have a further rant together on Thursday night. First large scotch on me.
VH
Flying will become totally safe when the weight of the paperwork means that the aircraft can't leave the ground and we all with out the lights and go home
The cowboys will still be doing their thing and the rest of us will watch the mayhem from the safety of the sidelines. The AOC operators will be bullied into another level of red tape, while the guardians of aviation safety in the UK will spend their time and our money making sure we have dotted al the i's and crossed all the t's rather than getting out and policing aviation properly. Stopping the illegal PT and sheer stupid activities of the uncaring, uncontolled minority rather than giving us another level of bureaucracy would make me feel that our over-inflated AOC fees havesome value, rather than looking like they'e just been flushed away again.
To the FOIs. You all come from a commercial background. Why the hell can't you help commercial aviation rather than helping the Authority screw us all the time. To a man you are all nice blokes, plase remember where you came from and how the rest of us struggle against the illegal operators you seem powerless to stop.
Rant over. PE no doubt you and I will have a further rant together on Thursday night. First large scotch on me.
VH
Plus Expenses said:
"Look at maintenance companies where the senior engineers are upstairs doing paperwork while the unsupervised trainees are doing the actual work, has this improved safety?"
Thats a really interesting statement. A bit like "Lots of pilots watching the telly today".
If you really saw this happening you should ask what the Senior Eng might be signing-off, or complain. Or are they really cheap? In which case - you get what you (don't) pay for.
I also find it interesting that VH would prefer pilots to be "stopped" rather than being prevented for erring in the first place. Be careful of what you wish for...you might get it.
Whilst I agree that SMS for small operations can be a bureaucratic system, it is often the only way to record errors and events made by those people that need to be monitored, because "they" always do it wrong, or to prove that some "systems" just don't work!
The whole point of SMS is that, if you can think of a better way to do it - suggest it! It is supposed to encourage an open reporting system. See if it works.
Yes, it may mean that pilots have "something else to do" - the same happened when someone introduced compulsory weather forecast checking or MORs. Get over it.
We are all trying to get to a "best practice" for our particular operation. Try joining it instead of sneering at it.
Rigga
A smallish heli-operator and maintenance QA and SMS manager.
Now that's what I call a rant!
"Look at maintenance companies where the senior engineers are upstairs doing paperwork while the unsupervised trainees are doing the actual work, has this improved safety?"
Thats a really interesting statement. A bit like "Lots of pilots watching the telly today".
If you really saw this happening you should ask what the Senior Eng might be signing-off, or complain. Or are they really cheap? In which case - you get what you (don't) pay for.
I also find it interesting that VH would prefer pilots to be "stopped" rather than being prevented for erring in the first place. Be careful of what you wish for...you might get it.
Whilst I agree that SMS for small operations can be a bureaucratic system, it is often the only way to record errors and events made by those people that need to be monitored, because "they" always do it wrong, or to prove that some "systems" just don't work!
The whole point of SMS is that, if you can think of a better way to do it - suggest it! It is supposed to encourage an open reporting system. See if it works.
Yes, it may mean that pilots have "something else to do" - the same happened when someone introduced compulsory weather forecast checking or MORs. Get over it.
We are all trying to get to a "best practice" for our particular operation. Try joining it instead of sneering at it.
Rigga
A smallish heli-operator and maintenance QA and SMS manager.
Now that's what I call a rant!
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Quality programs with SMS,
I know it takes time to have everybody accept the system if it is new in whole company. After all it will help all parties in company and works only if all have willingness and a chance to take a part of it. It is (it should) be a tool for everybody to take part of operation. Main thing is that Quality Manager is trained or have good personal skills lead the system. Whole system should be build for your company matters. Don't just steel the system from somebody. Good luck
Hostile
I know it takes time to have everybody accept the system if it is new in whole company. After all it will help all parties in company and works only if all have willingness and a chance to take a part of it. It is (it should) be a tool for everybody to take part of operation. Main thing is that Quality Manager is trained or have good personal skills lead the system. Whole system should be build for your company matters. Don't just steel the system from somebody. Good luck
Hostile
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Plus expenses,
You have just demonstrated that that you have little understanding about SMS.
Please take the time to read and understand what it is trying to do. It is there to help you and not hinder you. It is compulsary so you will have to implement it anyway, why not get some benefit from it?
If you are running a small company, your SMS only needs to be a small document.
It is not something that has been thought of recently. This has been in use in the Nuclear and Oil industries for years, we know it will improve safety and reduce costs if used correctly.
A little advice for when you write yours, remember this is about saving lives NOT trailing extension leads and paper cuts.
Keep it simple.
Take care and good luck with your SMS.
You have just demonstrated that that you have little understanding about SMS.
Please take the time to read and understand what it is trying to do. It is there to help you and not hinder you. It is compulsary so you will have to implement it anyway, why not get some benefit from it?
If you are running a small company, your SMS only needs to be a small document.
It is not something that has been thought of recently. This has been in use in the Nuclear and Oil industries for years, we know it will improve safety and reduce costs if used correctly.
A little advice for when you write yours, remember this is about saving lives NOT trailing extension leads and paper cuts.
Keep it simple.
Take care and good luck with your SMS.
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At its simplest an SMS encourages senior management buy in to the Company safety culture, I don't think that's a bad aspiration. It should encourage open reporting meaning that we can all become aware of latent problems in the system that may be lurking to 'get us'.
At its best it is a quantum leap forward in flight safety, where I work the worst kind of lip service is payed to it to tick Authority boxes.
At its best it is a quantum leap forward in flight safety, where I work the worst kind of lip service is payed to it to tick Authority boxes.
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I had nothing but full blown scepticism for SMS until I actually sat down and had it explained and disected for me. The fact that I "own" any report that I open and have final say as to whether it can be closed off or not is a vast improvement in my opinion, plus the fact that reports can be submitted completely unanimously if needed.
I am probably what can be called a believer now, with the only obstacle being the fact that it is another form to fill out..
I am probably what can be called a believer now, with the only obstacle being the fact that it is another form to fill out..
Safety Management Programs
What is the controlling document for drawing up Safety Management Programs these days?
Is it CAA's CAP 712 document (Safety Management Systems For
Commercial Air Transport), some FAA standard, or is it ICAO document 9589 (Safety Management Manual)? Does EASA have a new standard yet that supplants the CAA and other European standards?
Does an operator have a choice in the system they draw up or must it comply with a specific set of documents?
Is the industry seeing added costs due to changing standards with the creation of CAA/JAA/EASA or are they using common standards?
Is it CAA's CAP 712 document (Safety Management Systems For
Commercial Air Transport), some FAA standard, or is it ICAO document 9589 (Safety Management Manual)? Does EASA have a new standard yet that supplants the CAA and other European standards?
Does an operator have a choice in the system they draw up or must it comply with a specific set of documents?
Is the industry seeing added costs due to changing standards with the creation of CAA/JAA/EASA or are they using common standards?
There are no limits
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We are one of the industry leaders in SMS implementation for helicopter operators and if you have a look at Transport Canada's website, this gives some guidance on what to do.
To say that costs are increased by this implementation would be an understatement.
To say that costs are increased by this implementation would be an understatement.
What standard is the Canadian program based upon?
ICAO standards or Canadian Standards without reference to any other controlling documents?
ICAO standards or Canadian Standards without reference to any other controlling documents?
Anyone still using CAA CAP 712?
Reference: CAP 712
Title: Safety Management Systems for Commercial Air Transport Operations
Description: Please see Safety Management Systems | Operations & Airworthiness | Safety Regulation for up-to-date information on Safety Management Systems.
Status: Withdrawn on 23 September 2008
Review Comment: This document is out of date and has been withdrawn.
Title: Safety Management Systems for Commercial Air Transport Operations
Description: Please see Safety Management Systems | Operations & Airworthiness | Safety Regulation for up-to-date information on Safety Management Systems.
Status: Withdrawn on 23 September 2008
Review Comment: This document is out of date and has been withdrawn.
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IHST launch New SMS Video for US market
Credit: An Air Logistics LLC / Rotorcraft Leasing Corporation LLC Joint Production based on an original idea by Houston Helicopters LLC.