"Medical evacuation helicopter crashed"

[Shawn Coyle]

Training in an unstabilized helicopter with foggles is not the same as being in cloud in an unstabilized helicopter. World of difference when you really, really can't see outside.
And while a force trim system helps with flying in clouds, it does not make the helicopter more stable. And the force trim system really only helps if you use it all the time - not just when you go into clouds.
Same as any stabilization system - has to be used all the time, not just when the weather is bad.

[Gomer Pylot]

Regular IFR training is a good idea, but it's not really practical. A safety pilot is required when flying with vision limiting devices, and most common EMS helicopters are configured without a copilot's seat. In order to do IFR training, a mechanic has to remove the stretcher and install a seat and all the controls, then replace all that when the training is complete. It requires putting the aircraft out of service for almost an entire day just to do an hour of training. It's either that, or having a spare aircraft devoted just to that training, floating around the company. Then you have to find a spare pilot to fly along, which is really the easy part. Convincing the bean counters to allow this regularly is hopeless.

[alouette3]

Shawn:
I agree that the force trim or other stabilizing equipment should be used all the time.
While the force trim does not make the helicopter more stable, it certainly prevents inadvertent inputs into the roll and pitch plane.The techniques we practised were: fly through the transparency while leaving the cyclic trimmed for a datum pitch attitude.Never trim or use the stick release in a turn. In case of doubt, release pressures and allow the aircraft to return to the datum set. It was not as sophisticated as the auto pilot systems I used later and certainly required a lot more maintenance, but it got the job done.And the penalty on the payload was negligible, even though that was not a governing factor.
Alt3.

[WhirlwindIII]

Gomer

I agree with your observation reference those helicopter types that require the mechanic time to configure them for IMC/IFR training. There is always a solution. Bean counters will have little to say about it if the company, or FAA, mandates something. As to expense - nothing is more expensive than an accident - something we all agree upon.


Shawn

I agree that flying with Foggles is different than being in cloud. Each has its visual plus and minus - I'd rather be in cloud than using Foggles just because everything on the flight deck is in sight without turning ones direct view through Foggles (when utilizing them in VMC training) away from the basic T of attitude control instruments.


Thanks.

WIII

[havoc]

from a law office $$ just abit low maybe

Cumulative Toll of Helicopter Ambulance Crashes Tops $100 Million - Aviation Safety & Security Digest

[WhirlwindIII]

Havoc

The true dollar cost of an accident is almost always ten times the direct cost - i.e. 10x the cost of the obvious bits such as replacing the helicopter, scene reaction and evacuation/cleanup, insurance personnel time, insurance cost, increased cost of insurability, all the personnel time of all the folks involved, lost revenue opportunity, lawyers, new standards and training required, lawsuits, etc. etc. etc. If negligence is awareded the penalty in US courts is usually 4x the calculated one.

"If one thinks safety and training are expensive - just try the cost of an accident!"

A bit from the article you provide says if very well:

" " The economic losses from these crashes are around $100 million, assuming a statistical value of $3 million for each life lost, some $500,000 for each injury, and about $5 million for replacing each helicopter. If anything, the costs are on the low side and could be substantially higher.
The costs are certainly greater than any safety improvements, and the toll over the last 12 months is the worst in the history of such operations" "

Thanks for the link!

WIII

[havoc]

Risk matrix

As I read the article I was wondering what the risk matrix before the flight had shown. The company I fly for (IMHO) has a poor one. I know you cant cover all the "what ifs" but the only NTSB recommendations are that you have a method of assessing risk.

Any insight from HEMS in Europe and OZ as to what you use?

NTSB releases Trooper 2 tapes:

wjz.com - Video Library

[helmet fire]

Moved post to here for wider discussion:

HEMS Brainstorming

[WhirlwindIII]

helmet fire

Excellent!

Thanks for such a well thought out response! Especially the realistic time line for implementation.

I would add some sort of regulatory requirements for certification of medical crewmembers. Too much medical influence (WAY too much) in HEMS aviation operations.

Thanks again!

WIII

[Devil 49]

"helmet fire" said-

"1. Night flying requires reference to instruments. If you want to fly at night get an IFR rating. Even just the simplified en route IFR rating. 3 hours instruments required each 3 months to stay current. Renewals required each year."

Geeminy cricket- I've been doing it wrong for 40 years- keepng my eyes out, aborting if I don't like what I see, and keeping the panel setup for IIMC... I get the impression many people don't understand night VFR. The rules are simple:
1. You have to see to go.
2. You have to see where you're going, adequately.
3. Have a place to land in sight, or a fail-safe plan to get to one.

It's just like day VFR, without the sunlight.

[RJ Kanary]

"Medical evacuation helecopter crashed"

Additional information, plus three links.

Radio tower stabilized -- chicagotribune.com

cbs2chicago.com - Slideshows

Fixing the radio tower :: Suburban Chicago News :: Photo Gallery

RJ


{Courtesy of Wireless Estimator. }
Train station video confirms that tower's lighting system was operating prior to fatal crash
October 23, 2008 - Last week's fatal Air Angels helicopter crash in Aurora, IL was not caused by the absence of obstruction lighting on the guyed tower that the chopper struck, according to a preliminary report being issued by the National Transportation Safety Board.
NTSB investigator John Brannen said yesterday that strobe lights on the tower owned by WBIG-AM were operating prior to the helicopter's rotor clipping a guy wire and killing four people when it crashed.
That determination came from video shot by a parking lot surveillance camera two miles away at the Route 59 train station, which was turned over to authorities earlier this week.
"At the approximate time the collision occurred, the lights stop blinking," Brannen said, suggesting that the lights were knocked out by damage from the crash. When fire and police personnel responding to the crash just before midnight on Oct. 15 saw no lights on the tower, some wondered whether lack of lighting had contributed to the crash.
The video did not show the tower or the helicopter, but provided coverage of the flashes of the lighting system.
The 750-foot tower had two levels of white obstruction lights.
WBIG President Rick Jakle says he never doubted the lights were on, though he was relieved to hear the tape supported his belief.
"Those lights are extremely reliable," he said. "They don't go out unless there is a thunderstorm or lightning. We're happy to hear the corroborating evidence, but the fact is, we knew they were on."